New Information On AonDor Intitiation.

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

Its hard to say as we're don't quite know yet why the Dor acts as it does

[Yata he/him]

While there would only be one country or government, different cultures and ways of life would still exist through the planet. It would probably still be the same.

With the time maybe the culture and the Selish's Cognitive Identity will become one... and this may influence the Dor... But first we have to build a model of how the Dor works

[Blightsong he/him]

With the time maybe the culture and the Selish's Cognitive Identity will become one... and this may influence the Dor... But first we have to build a model of how the Dor works

I doubt this will ever happen. All countries have individual cultures within them. Even cities have individual cultures within them.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Blightsong

[Pathfinder]

I doubt this will ever happen. All countries have individual cultures within them. Even cities have individual cultures within them.

There are whole countries with their own cultures and languages that were the result of another country coming in and taking over the native population. Over generations this intermingling resulted in something entirely unique. Also Galladon is a prime example of this. 

[Landis963 he/him]

Oh, now this is a thought provoking question! If a unified Sel occurred would that erase or weaken certain magic systems at the expense of others or would it spread each magic system around the globe so that AonDor would work at full strength everywhere, Forgery too etc.?

 

Fjordell seems to be 1) an attempt at precisely this, and 2) one that does not appear to affect magic systems.  Note that ChayShan still exists despite Jindo's subsumation into the empire, and that Hrovell and Dakhor have their own magic systems.  

[Nyali she/her]

Fjordell seems to be 1) an attempt at precisely this, and 2) one that does not appear to affect magic systems.  Note that ChayShan still exists despite Jindo's subsumation into the empire, and that Hrovell and Dakhor have their own magic systems.  

 

Yet those cultures still exist. I think the question is what happens when cultures are fully subsumed into each other. As long as cultural identity exists, the magic associated with that cultural identity certainly seems to persist, but that doesn't necessarily mean that will always be the case.

[Landis963 he/him]

Yet those cultures still exist. I think the question is what happens when cultures are fully subsumed into each other. As long as cultural identity exists, the magic associated with that cultural identity certainly seems to persist, but that doesn't necessarily mean that will always be the case.

 

Shu-Dereth is built around the idea of compressing people into roles and boxes, and is thus uniquely suited to force such absorption of cultures into the whole.  Admittedly, we don't know how long Hrovell remained free of Fjorden's control (if it ever was), nor how its culture is integrated into the rest of Fjordell, which makes such speculation murky at best.  

[Pathfinder]

Shu-Dereth is built around the idea of compressing people into roles and boxes, and is thus uniquely suited to force such absorption of cultures into the whole.  Admittedly, we don't know how long Hrovell remained free of Fjorden's control (if it ever was), nor how its culture is integrated into the rest of Fjordell, which makes such speculation murky at best.  

Elantris page 161

"But" she said, thinking out loud "your people's homeland is Derethi now"

Shuden's face darkened, eyeing the gyorn. "I wonder what the great master thought when his two students, Korath and Dereth, left to preach to the lands northward. Keseg taught of unity. But what did he mean? Unity of mind, as my people assume? Unity of love, as your priests claim? Or is it the unity of obedience, as the Derethi believe? In the end, I am left to ponder how mankind managed to complicate such a simple concept."

He paused, then shook his head. "Anyway, yes, my lady, JinDo is Derethi now. My people allow Wyrn to assume that the JinDo have been converted because it is better than fighting. Many are now questioning that decision, however. The Arteths are growing increasingly demanding. 

 

Also I cannot find a quote that specifically states when exactly JinDo became Derethi, but from the context it is within Sarene's life time, so not even a generation has passed. Derethi is a religion. England was still England whether it was Protestant or Catholic. The main changes from Derethi to a nation conquered are worshiping in Fjorden (much like the catholic church made people worship in Latin), and obeying Wyrn if he makes any "requests". This mainly manifests in a standing army he can summon from any nation to help him take over other countries as need be. Otherwise the culture remains intact. What I believe Nyali and myself are referring to (correct me if I am wrong) are instances such as South America during colonization. The colonists intermarried with the native population till over enough generations a whole new ethnicity, culture and language arose that was an amalgamum of both. So had the natives had their own magic system, it might have changed over time to something unique of the natives and the foreign power entering. That perhaps over enough generations and with advancements in travel and information, culture will merge more and more till there is unity. In some ways that is already happening today. Cultural ideas that would have never been heard or considered in other countries, thanks to the internet are flowing back and forth and being picked up like never before. I believe at the time of Elantris, unless the Elantrians become a world power with their magic allowing teleportation and communication at little to no cost in comparison to the other magics, this theory of unity is impossible. Perhaps in a few centuries and maybe even as of the time of Mistborn but the current time of Elantris would make this very difficult. 

[Yata he/him]

It may be relevant to notice this:

the "man of the potions" (I don't remember the name, "Forton" maybe ?) uses a specific sub Magic System of Selish Magic System and He is a "false believer" of Derethi Religion... It may be a clue about the necessity of a cognitive identity different to the Derethi's one to use his Potion sub Magic System.

[Curiosity he/him]

At some point, Raoden tells Galladon that Duladen is under Fjordic rule, and that Jesker is no longer practiced. Galladon responds with sadness and remarks on the lack of authenticity of the Jeskeri Mysteries. This conversation was perhaps given as an indicator as to the mechanism by which magic is made on Sel. I've been thinking about this for a while now, and posted some speculations here.

[red032 he/him]

On 11/05/2016 at 8:28 PM, Blightsong said:

 

So, the question with AonDor is "Connection"?

As the Connection a Ferring Connector is capable of storing on duralumin metalminds?

So, an evetual Ferring Connector that ended up on Sel would be capable, by using stored connection, to use AonDor?
Or, by flaring a good deal of stored conncection, could he, then, be turned into an Elantrian?

What do you think?

 

On 11/05/2016 at 8:28 PM, Blightsong said:

 

 

Recently I read a WoB that stated that a Zombie Elantrian is similar Realmatically to a dead Spren. This got some gears turning, so I posted a theory to the Cosmere Theories forum which basicly stated that Elantrians share a bond similar to that of a Knight Radiant and its Spren, but i stead of a Spren they are bonded to their country. Some discussion involving the Cognitive realm and the nature of bonds insued, you can check that out over in the OP. After some discussion I decided to message Brandon through Reddit to see if I could get an answer out of him.

I asked "Is a bond between an Elantrian and Arelon similar to that of a Knight Radiant and its Spren?"

He responded with "Yes, that is a similar relationship."

This is EXTREMELY interesting, I'm following this answer up with the question "Is there a similar ideal system? Are Elantrians transformed because of their character? Maybe their closeness to the culture of Arelon?"

Hopefully he responds, but even if he doesn't we now know that people are intiated into AonDor by forming a bond with their country of origin. I'm very exited to have figured this out, let me know what you guys think.

Edit: I got RAFOed basicly, here is his reponse.

"from mistborn sent 26 minutes ago

Ah, now you're getting into RAFO territory. Let's just say that you don't have to have a Seon to be made an Elantrian, but in the vast majority of cases, you need a spren to be a Knight Radiant. So there are some differences."

Edit 2: So I asked the follow up question "Does any of this have to do with the personification of culture, similar to how Spren are a personification of natural forces and emotions?"

He responded with "To an extent, yes."

Think of that as you will.

 

[Yata he/him]

6 minutes ago, red032 said:

So, an evetual Ferring Connector that ended up on Sel would be capable, by using stored connection, to use AonDor?
Or, by flaring a good deal of stored conncection, could he, then, be turned into an Elantrian?

What do you think?

 

 

Hoid tried and failed to become Elantrian...End we know he uses Connection to attune himself to Shardworlds

[red032 he/him]

Or am I wrong and the correct power is not Connection, but Identity?

[Yata he/him]

24 minutes ago, red032 said:

Or am I wrong and the correct power is not Connection, but Identity?

No, it's Connection 

Identity is a Cognitive Attribute while became a magic user is a matter of Spiritual Aspect and Connections is the Spiritual Attribute that allow this.

I will use an example but it's about Mistborn therefore I will put it under spoiler:

Spoiler

On Scadrial the Allomancer is people with a stronger connection to Preservation than the other, Mistborn have a more strong connection than Misting to Preservation.
A Lerasium Mistborn for example gain his Ability because the Lerasium has as effect "rewrite Spirit-Web" and the default outcome (may do other things with knowledge of its use) is rewrite your Connection to Preservation stronger... and this turn you in a powerful Mistborn.

 

Edited June 16, 2016 by Yata

[red032 he/him]

Understood! Thanks.