Easy way to kill Miles

[Skoba]

After reading about how aluminum stopped Feruchemical healing, I couldn't help but wonder why Wax and Wayne didn't just shoot Miles with an aluminum bullet. There were plenty of aluminum guns lying around from killed Vanishers at the end of Alloy of Law, filled with aluminum bullets, and a single aluminum bullet in his skull would have killed him. It would have been such a simple solution. The only reason that I can think of as to why they didn't do this is that maybe they had never heard of this, although since Wayne is a bloodmaker it seems like he would have heard about this.

[Yata]

As far as I remember, Alluminium doesn't stop Feruchemical Gold,just slow the process (or consumes more Healing I am unsure)  and in Miles case, it would be meaningless with quite infinite Healing

Edited May 11, 2016 by Yata

[Oversleep]

I don't think it's known/it's widely known that aluminum interferes with healing.

And of course aluminium is hard to get enough of it to make bullets - remember, it's more valuable than gold. Only Vanishers/Set had enough resources to make aluminium ammunition and they still had to obtain it in robberies.

 

Even Coinshot Killer Squads used primarily bows and crossbows made of wood with stone arrowheads. Or regular guns if somebody trusted his speed of draw against Coinshot (as Wax remarks in SoS prologue). No aluminium there, and if you're not using aluminium to fight Coinshots, then what are the chances that somebody has ever shot Bloodmaker with aluminium bullet?

[Skoba]

As far as I remember, Alluminium doesn't stop Feruchemical Gold,just slow the process (or consumes more Healing I am unsure)  and in Miles case, it would be meaningless with quite infinite Healing

It says it does on the wiki, and I remember reading about Brandon confirming it in a Q&A and saying that it interferes with most types of investure. I am not sure, but I think that it flat out stops healing.

[Skoba]

I don't think it's known/it's widely known that aluminum interferes with healing.

And of course aluminium is hard to get enough of it to make bullets - remember, it's more valuable than gold. Only Vanishers/Set had enough resources to make aluminium ammunition and they still had to obtain it in robberies.

 

Even Coinshot Killer Squads used primarily bows and crossbows made of wood with stone arrowheads. Or regular guns if somebody trusted his speed of draw against Coinshot (as Wax remarks in SoS prologue). No aluminium there, and if you're not using aluminium to fight Coinshots, then what are the chances that somebody has ever shot Bloodmaker with aluminium bullet?

But at the end fight of AoL, there were tons of aluminum guns loaded with aluminum bullets from the Vanishers that Wax killed. He could have just picked one up from the ground. And also Marasi had her rifle with aluminum rounds. I did say how they may not know about it.

[Yata]

It says it does on the wiki, and I remember reading about Brandon confirming it in a Q&A and saying that it interferes with most types of investure. I am not sure, but I think that it flat out stops healing.

Interferes and stops are two different things... You may see for example how the Alluminium works quite well in Allomancy (clean the user), Feruchemy (store Identity) and Hemalurgy ( Steal something).

At the moment we don't know because the Allumium is weird and therefore we can't make a "model" to decide what kind of interference may creates in the many possible situations

Edited May 11, 2016 by Yata

[Skoba]

Interferes and stops are two different things... You may see for example how the Alluminium works quite well in Allomancy (clean the user), Feruchemy (store Identity) and Hemalurgy ( Steal something).

At the moment we don't know because the Allumium is weird and therefore we can't make a "model" to decide what kind of interference may creates in the many possible situations

The wiki says, "It also interferes with Feruchemical healing, by making it impossible for wounds to heal around the aluminium until it is removed from the body". The key word there is impossible. So the body could not spit out aluminum bullets like it does to normal bullets, and then could never heal it. And Marasi says that if a bloodmaker stopped healing and let their wounds consume them (or in this case, be blocked from healing a vital area like the brain or heart), then they would die.

[Yata]

The wiki says, "It also interferes with Feruchemical healing, by making it impossible for wounds to heal around the aluminium until it is removed from the body". The key word there is impossible. So the body could not spit out aluminum bullets like it does to normal bullets, and then could never heal it. And Marasi says that if a bloodmaker stopped healing and let their wounds consume them (or in this case, be blocked from healing a vital area like the brain or heart), then they would die.

Ok I understand what you said but while a Bloodmaker taps Healing it can't die until he has Healing (also if you cut his head or extreme cases) therefore the bullet would remain in the body and the Ferring will keep expend healing to stay alive, but this don't prevent him from keep tapping his Goldmind... No bullet or hit may stop a Ferring from tapping once he began

[Skoba]

Ok I understand what you said but while a Bloodmaker taps Healing it can't die until he has Healing (also if you cut his head or extreme cases) therefore the bullet would remain in the body and the Ferring will keep expend healing to stay alive, but this don't prevent him from keep tapping his Goldmind... No bullet or hit may stop a Ferring from tapping once he began

I must admit, I am a little confused as to what you just said. You could expend the result of compounding gold non stop for years and it would not matter if an area cannot be healed. The brain would still die, or be damaged to the point where even thinking is impossible if it had an aluminum bullet in it. 

[king of nowhere]

I must admit, I am a little confused as to what you just said. You could expend the result of compounding gold non stop for years and it would not matter if an area cannot be healed. The brain would still die, or be damaged to the point where even thinking is impossible if it had an aluminum bullet in it. 

actually not. the healing power of gold would be enough to keep the brain fully active even with a bullet in it - plus, a bullet is fairly small compared to the brain; a bullet creates a shockwave that deals huge damage to all the brain, and that's why it's generally fatal, but as far as i know just removing an amount of brain matter as small as a bullet is unlikely to do much at all.

so, miles could have survived, though it would have costed him more gold to heal such a wound. he'd probably had to put his own hand inside his brain to get the bullet out if it stayed lodged in, too. but he didn't consider it ssomething too bad. consider than during the shootout miles wandered around unconcerned. he knew everybody was shooting aluminium bullets around and he could have been taken in the crossfire, but clearly he assumed that be not a big deal to him. And earlier in the book he stabbed himself with an aluminium knife (simply because he had no other convenient place to store it), so he probably knew enough of how much aluminium interfered.

[Skoba]

actually not. the healing power of gold would be enough to keep the brain fully active even with a bullet in it - plus, a bullet is fairly small compared to the brain; a bullet creates a shockwave that deals huge damage to all the brain, and that's why it's generally fatal, but as far as i know just removing an amount of brain matter as small as a bullet is unlikely to do much at all.

so, miles could have survived, though it would have costed him more gold to heal such a wound. he'd probably had to put his own hand inside his brain to get the bullet out if it stayed lodged in, too. but he didn't consider it ssomething too bad. consider than during the shootout miles wandered around unconcerned. he knew everybody was shooting aluminium bullets around and he could have been taken in the crossfire, but clearly he assumed that be not a big deal to him. And earlier in the book he stabbed himself with an aluminium knife (simply because he had no other convenient place to store it), so he probably knew enough of how much aluminium interfered.

Even a small scratch on the brain can interfere with thought. As a child, my dad had a brain tumor and he constantly threw up just because it was resting on an area of the brain that causes nausea. It didn't even cut the brain and it had a very bad affect on him. And as for the knife, once Miles removed it the would could have closed up normally.

[Yata]

Even a small scratch on the brain can interfere with thought. As a child, my dad had a brain tumor and he constantly threw up just because it was resting on an area of the brain that causes nausea. It didn't even cut the brain and it had a very bad affect on him. And as for the knife, once Miles removed it the would could have closed up normally.

In the Cosmere every being is an overlapping of three Aspect Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual.

 

This in the end made the thing slight different (and in the end also in the real world if something like the "soul" is a real thing) and also the beheading would not interfere with thought... or to lose your whole body at all.

 

It's a strange loop:

You die when your physical aspect collects too much damage and when happen your connection to the physical is cut off, but you have still Cognitive and Spiritual (and you are still capable of thinking). But ehi... A Bloodmaker while tapping Healing can't die. Therefore he may be killed if he try to tap healing as answer to a fatal hit (if he isn't fast enough) but He can't die if He tapped Healing before (or fast enough) until the Healing run off.

 

As example rememeber that TLR survived Beheading and bein burned to the bones... and TLR used exactly the same Miles trick to be "Immortal"... If Someone with a knife (or bullet) may kill him easy... He would not be so arrogant.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Yata

[kenod]

Did they have aluminium back then? IIRC they had to get it from the inside of the ashmounts, so it was really rare.

[Skoba]

In the Cosmere every being is an overlapping of three Aspect Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual.

 

This in the end made the thing slight different (and in the end also in the real world if something like the "soul" is a real thing) and also the beheading would interfere with thought... or to lose your whole body at all.

 

It's a strange loop:

You die when your physical aspect collects too much damage and when happen your connection to the physical is cut off, but you have still Cognitive and Spiritual (and you are still capable of thinking). But ehi... A Bloodmaker while tapping Healing can't die. Therefore he may be killed if he try to tap healing as answer to a fatal hit (if he isn't fast enough) but He can't die if He tapped Healing before (or fast enough) until the Healing run off.

 

As example rememeber that TLR survived Beheading and bein burned to the bones... and TLR used exactly the same Miles trick to be "Immortal"... If Someone with a knife (or bullet) may kill him easy... He would not be so arrogant.

I had not considered that. But I don't think that it was known that aluminum interfered with investure, and we don't know how rare it was. People would probably have thought that it could be pushed and pulled on, because otherwise all hazekillers would have been armed with aluminum weapons instead of wooden or obsidian weapons as wood is very breakable and obsidian shatters relatively easily. TLR knew about it of course, but as nobody else knew about it he could be pretty certain in his safety.

[Skoba]

Did they have aluminium back then? IIRC they had to get it from the inside of the ashmounts, so it was really rare.

Yeah, it was probably rare. And since people would have thought it was useless to carry around aluminum for Allomancy once they learned of it, it would not have been mined in large amounts. And I think it is only valuable in the AoL era because of its ability to resist Allomancy and Feruchemy.

[The Sovereign]

I don't think it's known/it's widely known that aluminum interferes with healing.

And of course aluminium is hard to get enough of it to make bullets - remember, it's more valuable than gold. Only Vanishers/Set had enough resources to make aluminium ammunition and they still had to obtain it in robberies.

 

Not to nitpick here (as I pick nits...), but Wax and Wayne most certainly do know about Aluminum's effect on Feruchemical Healing due to Wayne's personal experience with it.

[Yata]

I had not considered that. But I don't think that it was known that aluminum interfered with investure, and we don't know how rare it was. People would probably have thought that it could be pushed and pulled on, because otherwise all hazekillers would have been armed with aluminum weapons instead of wooden or obsidian weapons as wood is very breakable and obsidian shatters relatively easily. TLR knew about it of course, but as nobody else knew about it he could be pretty certain in his safety.

The point was  not about Alluminium or any other material. If an hit to the Brain will turn off your ability to tap from a Metalmind (goldmind in this case). Rashek or Miles would die for any kind of headshot because the F-Gold would be stopped by the hit (Alluminium or not).

 

Your point wasn't about Alluminium Interference (we know that it took more to heal with some Alluminium in the wound) but the "an object in your brain would stop you from thinking and therefore you can't tap a Metalmind (or keep tapping)".

 

If this is true, many things Wayne, TLR, Miles (dinamite at range zero) or many Inquisitors (I rememeber an Iquisitor with an opened head) did are pure madness.

 

PS: TLR knowed quite all about the Metallic Arts thanks to his time as Ascended being... He would know about the effect of Alluminium on himself

Edited May 12, 2016 by Yata

[Pathfinder]

So few things. First TLR definitely knew about aluminum as he informed his inquisitors given that they forced Vin to swallow and burn it to expunge her stores. He would not however tell inquisitors about the fact that if a weapon was made of that metal, it would prevent him from healing, thus giving them a means of killing him. Second, aluminum (as we know it) given that stage in technological development is incredibly hard to find in natural deposits. It wasn't till the Halt-Heroult process that it became easier to make. So having aluminum weapons at the time of the Lord Ruler would almost be impossible. 

[natc]

Yeah, it was probably rare. And since people would have thought it was useless to carry around aluminum for Allomancy once they learned of it, it would not have been mined in large amounts. And I think it is only valuable in the AoL era because of its ability to resist Allomancy and Feruchemy.

That's probably part of the costliness of aluminum in AoL, most of it is probably because aluminum production and refinement without electricity (which they only recently began developing technology for) is pretty damnation difficult. Even on Earth it used to be entirely impractical to mass produce. IIRC in the 1800s aluminum was more valuable than gold.

Aluminum prices will almost certainly drop in another generation or two.

Edited May 14, 2016 by natc

[Voidus]

You'd also have a bit of trouble actually getting an aluminium bullet to pierce the brain, particularly given the era. Pure aluminium is pretty soft and skulls are pretty not soft. Plus as mentioned, gold would probably keep you alive even if it couldn't get rid of the wound if you had enough of it.

[Yata]

You'd also have a bit of trouble actually getting an aluminium bullet to pierce the brain, particularly given the era. Pure aluminium is pretty soft and skulls are pretty not soft. Plus as mentioned, gold would probably keep you alive even if it couldn't get rid of the wound if you had enough of it.

Well you may create a bullet with heavy core made by whatever is appropriate and a layer of allumin on the outside.

[Voidus]

Well you may create a bullet with heavy core made by whatever is appropriate and a layer of allumin on the outside.

Then you'd chip off the Aluminium and it'd heal as normal.

[Yata]

Then you'd chip off the Aluminium and it'd heal as normal.

And the opposite ? A bullet made of heavy metal ( ) with an exposed core of Alluminium ? May works probably

 

PS: It's just to made things harder for Bloodmaker not to give a "sure kill"

Edited May 14, 2016 by Yata

[Voidus]

And the opposite ? A bullet made of heavy metal ( ) with an exposed core of Alluminium ? May works probably

 

PS: It's just to made things harder for Bloodmaker not to give a "sure kill"

Yeah it'd definitely be annoying but in terms of killing Miles I doubt it'd work. Only real way is exactly what they did, capture him then take away his gold and keep shooting til he stays dead.

[asterion137]

Cut his spine with a shardblade. I'm actually not sure that would kill him given what happened to Szeth at the end of WoR, but unless F-Gold is a lot more broken than we've seen, I don't think it will heal him from shardblade autokills.