Random Stuff IX: Rogue Admins

[Orlion Blight he/him]

17 minutes ago, ThirdGen said:

I could Godwin this statement.

You could. But that would ignore that events of the twentieth century are hardly "ancient history" with "accounts filled heavily with symbolism."

41 minutes ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said:

Because nobody wants to be Dan Browned?

What about being Michael Crichtoned? Where the author goes out of his way to do massive amounts of research and presents a comprehensive bibliography of sources and still reaches questionable/controversial results (such as with State of Fear)?

Either case is fine, I believe, so long as neither is held to as dogmatic truth. Having your perceptions challenged is a good thing, even if it is done by one with questionable talent.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

18 minutes ago, Orlion Determined said:

You could. But that would ignore that events of the twentieth century are hardly "ancient history" with "accounts filled heavily with symbolism."

What about being Michael Crichtoned? Where the author goes out of his way to do massive amounts of research and presents a comprehensive bibliography of sources and still reaches questionable/controversial results (such as with State of Fear)?

Either case is fine, I believe, so long as neither is held to as dogmatic truth. Having your perceptions challenged is a good thing, even if it is done by one with questionable talent.

Sure, having your perceptions challenged is a good thing, even a great thing. But the way they're challenged matters. Imagine we're talking not about the distant past, but about a friend of a friend. If your conversational partner brought up an unlikely sounding but true fact that could be substantiated ("They won an Olympic gold") that would challenge your perception. If, on the other hand, they brought up a rumor that could only be partially proven at best ("They're an unapologetic racist") that would damage your view of that person, perhaps irreparably. It's the same way with the distant past. Rumors color our perception of certain groups, and when those groups have survived into the present, they damage our view of them. 

[Orlion Blight he/him]

24 minutes ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said:

Sure, having your perceptions challenged is a good thing, even a great thing. But the way they're challenged matters. Imagine we're talking not about the distant past, but about a friend of a friend. If your conversational partner brought up an unlikely sounding but true fact that could be substantiated ("They won an Olympic gold") that would challenge your perception. If, on the other hand, they brought up a rumor that could only be partially proven at best ("They're an unapologetic racist") that would damage your view of that person, perhaps irreparably. It's the same way with the distant past. Rumors color our perception of certain groups, and when those groups have survived into the present, they damage our view of them. 

That's the thing about critical thinking though, isn't it? You have to process the information you get and determine of the source is reliable. Damaged viewpoints aren't the end of a relationship, or even necessarily a flesh wound to them. (I would argue that healthy sparring is necessary in a relationship, but that's a whole other topic ;)) It is our responsibility to verify claims and determine what they mean to us.

To hijack one of your examples: you decide to ask the person if he is an unapologetic racist. He informs you that no, he is in fact an apologetic racist. You'll have to decide how that affects your relationship, but you've done critical work: taken a claim, investigated and gathered information...possibly having your perceptions challenged at least twice! Maybe more, as the incident continues!

It's work, but you end up with a much more sophisticated worldview... One that may even compel you to defend another's positive experience with a book you personally consider to be garbage 

[ThirdGen]

1 hour ago, Orlion Determined said:

Well, when dealing with ancient history...most of which we only have accounts filled heavily with symbolism, exaggerations and fabrications are the order of the day!

And if such is the case...why not choose the fabrication you prefer?

I meant that this is what Hitler did.

[Orlion Blight he/him]

3 minutes ago, ThirdGen said:

I meant that this is what Hitler did.

He also was a vegetarian, owned pets, breathed, drove cars, was a politician, had a mustache, wore clothes, spoke German...

Really, Hitler probably did a lot of things you find permissible and so in your day to day life. Should I be concerned that you are working to establish a fascist regime? Hardly. Choosing what you believe is a privilege, and making use of that privilege does not in any way make you a regular terrible person, let alone an atrocious one like Hitler.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

22 minutes ago, Orlion Determined said:

That's the thing about critical thinking though, isn't it? You have to process the information you get and determine of the source is reliable. Damaged viewpoints aren't the end of a relationship, or even necessarily a flesh wound to them. (I would argue that healthy sparring is necessary in a relationship, but that's a whole other topic ;)) It is our responsibility to verify claims and determine what they mean to us.

To hijack one of your examples: you decide to ask the person if he is an unapologetic racist. He informs you that no, he is in fact an apologetic racist. You'll have to decide how that affects your relationship, but you've done critical work: taken a claim, investigated and gathered information...possibly having your perceptions challenged at least twice! Maybe more, as the incident continues!

It's work, but you end up with a much more sophisticated worldview... One that may even compel you to defend another's positive experience with a book you personally consider to be garbage 

This assumes that someone is willing to do the work required to obtain a more nuanced worldview. It's a sad truth that many will take hearsay at face value and not bother to investigate the fraudulent claims made. Or, if they do investigate, they may find that evaluating competing claims is more work than they expected, and will simply choose to believe the original claim, or modify it only slightly, or pick they claim they like better. It's how politicians come to power after running on stretched truths and cherry-picked facts, and it's how Hollywood History is written. That's why I think erroneous research is so harmful--because there are many people who simply won't bother to investigate whether or not it's true, and lies are spread as a result. 

[Kaymyth she/her]

7 hours ago, AnanasSpren said:

Finally nearly finished Stargate Atlantis and I'm baffled about their reluctance to use the nanite replicators, especially for construction based purposes. Plot holes are hugely noticeable >.>

IIRC, they were really nervous about the tech because of its origins.  There was an undertone of worry that they might inadvertently create a Replicator Skynet.

2 hours ago, Orlion Determined said:

You could. But that would ignore that events of the twentieth century are hardly "ancient history" with "accounts filled heavily with symbolism."

What about being Michael Crichtoned? Where the author goes out of his way to do massive amounts of research and presents a comprehensive bibliography of sources and still reaches questionable/controversial results (such as with State of Fear)?

Either case is fine, I believe, so long as neither is held to as dogmatic truth. Having your perceptions challenged is a good thing, even if it is done by one with questionable talent.

Heh, Crichton.  He loved his scientific research.  He'd research and research until he found something that conflicted with what he wanted to write, and then he'd chuck everything from that point on into the bin and go with his idea.  He was a Jedi Master of making pseudoscience sound like real science.

[ThirdGen]

1 hour ago, Orlion Determined said:

He also was a vegetarian, owned pets, breathed, drove cars, was a politician, had a mustache, wore clothes, spoke German...

Really, Hitler probably did a lot of things you find permissible and so in your day to day life. Should I be concerned that you are working to establish a fascist regime? Hardly. Choosing what you believe is a privilege, and making use of that privilege does not in any way make you a regular terrible person, let alone an atrocious one like Hitler.

Deliberately presenting a false, mythic vision of history is a key component in making arbitrary social norms seem eternal, and that echoes through all forms of totalitarianism.

[The Honor Spren she/her]

Quote

TimelineTuesday: August 2, 216 BC: At the Battle of Cannae, the Carthaginian army led by Hannibal destroys a larger Roman army. Hannibal's tactic of "Double envelopment," in which two units of the army attack their opponent from both sides at once, is used again and again throughout the history of warfare, including at the Battle of Manzikert, the Battle of Fraustadt, and the Children's Victory Over Mom's Nutritional Resistance in the Sugary Cereal Aisle.

 

[Orlion Blight he/him]

1 hour ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said:

This assumes that someone is willing to do the work required to obtain a more nuanced worldview. It's a sad truth that many will take hearsay at face value and not bother to investigate the fraudulent claims made. Or, if they do investigate, they may find that evaluating competing claims is more work than they expected, and will simply choose to believe the original claim, or modify it only slightly, or pick they claim they like better. It's how politicians come to power after running on stretched truths and cherry-picked facts, and it's how Hollywood History is written. That's why I think erroneous research is so harmful--because there are many people who simply won't bother to investigate whether or not it's true, and lies are spread as a result. 

When details are scant/unreliable, however, what then? Or even what if they are inconclusive?

At that point, you have what Rawls called "Pluralism", or the arrival at different conclusions/views through reasonable means. That's simply what happens, why we have different political parties and different ways of looking at things.

Some do not ever get out of seeing things "from a certain point of view," but that does not have to be my problem or defining characteristic. I won't ever be completely open-minded (I doubt anyone can be!) but I also don't have to be a zealot for a cause...or even be completely dismissive of even what would appear to me to be most obviously crem (say, like crystal healing and ancient aliens... Two conversations where I managed to not come anywhere close to saying "are you storming stupid?!" Like I would reflexively like to say). I've found I can hijack those beliefs anyway for my own symbolic purposes, anyway.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

14 hours ago, Kaymyth said:

I...thought so?  I swear I remember someone saying that somewhere around here, that letting threads get too long could potentially cause problems.  I always thought it was a bit weird (I know of another forum with threads in the 1,000+ pages), but what the heck do I know about forum design?

I believe Rubix said this in the Reckoners RP before. 

Also, this is likely my last post on the Shard for two years! I'll see you guys in a while!

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

We'll miss you, Mailliw, but hope your mission is fun and enlightening!

[Kaymyth she/her]

50 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

Also, this is likely my last post on the Shard for two years! I'll see you guys in a while!

Noooooo!  Another one is stolen away!

*anklecling*

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

By the way, there's a new chapter up.

[The Honor Spren she/her]

1 hour ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said:

By the way, there's a new chapter up.

I can't remember if I told you earlier, but I loved the Gravity Falls reference with the Hide Behind.

I didn't know whether to put this in the bad day or good news thread, so it's over here. I mentioned it a few months ago. My family's going to move to Virginia for 6 months. We finally got a date to be there. September 1st. I don't know how to feel about it. 

Edited August 3, 2016 by The Honor Spren

[Briar King]

Is there a pic of yourself thread floating here? 

[Mestiv he/him]

Just now, Briar King said:

Is there a pic of yourself thread floating here? 

There is one somewhere in this subforum. 

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

1 hour ago, The Honor Spren said:

I can't remember if I told you earlier, but I loved the Gravity Falls reference with the Hide Behind.

I didn't know whether to put this in the bad day or good news thread, so it's over here. I mentioned it a few months ago. My family's going to move to Virginia for 6 months. We finally got a date to be there. September 1st. I don't know how to feel about it. 

Thanks!  Though in fairness, I didn't exactly intend it as a Gravity Falls reference, just an American folklore one. 

Oh wow.  Do you know anyone in Virginia already, or will you be starting over? 

[Briar King]

Ight I ll look.

[The Honor Spren she/her]

12 minutes ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said:

Oh wow.  Do you know anyone in Virginia already, or will you be starting over? 

Starting over, sort of. My dad know people there. It's for his job he's spent pretty much his whole career making this thing (I don't know what it is, it's classified) and now he has to go to Virginia to teach people how to use it. 

I like to pretend he's invented light sabers. 

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Just now, The Honor Spren said:

Starting over, sort of. My dad know people there. It's for his job he's spent pretty much his whole career making this thing (I don't know what it is, it's classified) and now he has to go to Virginia to teach people how to use it. 

I like to pretend he's invented light sabers. 

Have you ever been to Virginia before? 

[Mashadar Mistborn he/him]

1 hour ago, The Honor Spren said:

I can't remember if I told you earlier, but I loved the Gravity Falls reference with the Hide Behind.

I didn't know whether to put this in the bad day or good news thread, so it's over here. I mentioned it a few months ago. My family's going to move to Virginia for 6 months. We finally got a date to be there. September 1st. I don't know how to feel about it. 

Where in Virginia? I used to live in the area near Richmond.

[Sunbird she/her]

1 hour ago, Mashadar Mistborn said:

Where in Virginia? I used to live in the area near Richmond.

I am also curious for the same reason.

1 hour ago, The Honor Spren said:

Starting over, sort of. My dad know people there. It's for his job he's spent pretty much his whole career making this thing (I don't know what it is, it's classified) and now he has to go to Virginia to teach people how to use it. 

I like to pretend he's invented light sabers. 

Are you going to Langley? IIRC that's where CIA headquarters is.

[The Honor Spren she/her]

1 hour ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said:

Have you ever been to Virginia before? 

Nope! New experiences all around!  I'm just glad I get my permit the day before we move.

1 hour ago, Mashadar Mistborn said:

Where in Virginia? I used to live in the area near Richmond.

It's a city called Ashburn, I believe.  

4 minutes ago, Sunbird said:

I am also curious for the same reason.

Are you going to Langley? IIRC that's where CIA headquarters is.

Em, no. I'm pretty sure he doesn't work for the CIA.  It's a company called Harris that does contracts with the government. 

[Sunbird she/her]

I hope you like Virginia, @The Honor Spren! Depending on where you've been living previously, the high humidity in summer might be a shock, but the scenery is truly beautiful, at least in the areas that I lived. Rolling hills, forests, lakes, rivers--excellent habitat for lots of different wildlife. One neighborhood I lived in had a forested swamp in the middle of it, and you could find raccoons, beavers, snakes, lizards, frogs/toads, and lots of different kinds of birds there, including Pileated Woodpeckers, which are America's largest woodpecker ever since the Ivory-billed, to the best of everyone's knowledge, went extinct 70-ish years ago.

Beware, though: when it snows in Virginia, everybody basically loses their minds. School gets canceled when there's like only an inch of snow on the ground, and nobody knows how to drive safely in it unless they have experience from living somewhere like Utah or Idaho, where it snows much more often and more heavily.