Void Surgebinding

[Arcoss]

I've been wondering, can a human bond with a VoidSpren, giving them some of Odium's power, such as the red lightning the Parshendi used?

[Jondesu he/him]

I suspect that would be antithetical to Odium's intent, but perhaps there's a way to achieve it, probably using some sort of hack. That could be terrifying if so.

jW

[Yata he/him]

I suspect that would be antithetical to Odium's intent, but perhaps there's a way to achieve it, probably using some sort of hack. That could be terrifying if so.

jW

in the end we saw many kind of Splinter bonded with Human Being... Probably also a Voidspren may do this and on Roshar this would give to the human some power... I don't think they need an Hack, I suppose if both of them are willing they may do it quite easy.

 

Of course I have no idea about what kind of abilities they may develop

[Oversleep]

Obtaining the magic is the factor the most tied to the Intent of the Shard.

Sel: you have to be of right blood (connection; of the right nationality) and place. This ties well into Dominion/Devotion and patriotism (there was a nice fleshed out theory explaining it).

 

Nalthis: to gain Breaths they have to be Endowed to you.

Scadrial: Snapping is basically self-preserving instinct and power preserves the piece of Preservation in you. Hemalurgy requires ruining both the donor and recipient. Feruchemy is about ruining yourself (storing) to be able to later preserve yourself (tapping).

Now, Roshar:
Surgebinders attract spren by specific behaviour and strenghten their bond by swearing Oaths - very Honor things. Also (it now struck me) since Cultivation seems to be about growth and life... well, Surgebinders form symbiotic relationship with the spren, with both 'organisms' benefiting.

But Voidbinding doesn't make much sense - while normally Listeners attract the spren they want by correct attitude and Song, voidspren bonded only by virtue of Listener being open to bond a spren. It didn't require the Listener to show attitude which could be linked to Odium.

Perhaps human could create a bond with Voidspren (thus creating a hack in Surgebinding similarly to malatium being used in Allomancy) by attracting it be being hateful or something like that.

The powers it would grant? Remember the WoBs:
1) all magic on Roshar is tied to manipulating Ten Surges

2) malatium is gold fueled by Ruin

 

I think it would grant access (in a twisted way) to the same Surges the Voidbringer would be able to access.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Oversleep

[Jondesu he/him]

Oversleep, I'm pretty sure we have a WoB that we haven't actually seen Voidbinding yet. My guess is that what we've seen with the listeners so far is just their natural ability to join with spren, probably predating any of the shards arriving there, and that Voidbinding will involve something entirely different.

jW

[Oversleep]

Stormfather confirmed that forms of power are indeed Voidbringers. We haven't seen much of Voidbringers and I'm pretty sure none of them did more than throw lightnings. Perhaps throwing lightnings is not a manipulation of Ten Surges, but something related to summoning Everstorm.

[Jondesu he/him]

I'm also not quite convinced that Voidbinding and the Voidbringers relate to the same thing. The Voidbringers may not use Voidbinding, just their natural ability to metamorphosis with the spren being hijacked by Odium's spren.

jW

[Three1415]

I'm also not quite convinced that Voidbinding and the Voidbringers relate to the same thing. The Voidbringers may not use Voidbinding, just their natural ability to metamorphosis with the spren being hijacked by Odium's spren.

jW

 

I'm fairly certain this is the case, and I believe the full WoB that Oversleep referenced went on to say that Voidbringing and Voidbinding are two entirely different things, related only in their connection to Odium. As such, Voidbinding may result from human interactions with voidspren--perhaps via twisted versions of the Surges, as mentioned earlier. After all, it is still Voidbinding, so I can't help but feel that Honor would still be involved, if just not in the way he had originally intended.

[Oversleep]

I am very... nasty (is it a good word?) towards the whole "Voidbinding is not the Voidbringers magic, because Voidbringing is". So let's just say my opinion is that what Voidbringers do is Voidbinding. I also believe that if we speak from purely analytical view on Investiture and stuff, correct term for Listeners with voidspren is Voidbinders and "Voidbringers" is a term humans attribute to them cause they tend to bring a Desolation with them when they show up. (It's basically the difference between Surgebinder and Knight Radiant - KR is a term invented for fully realized Surgebinders and later it became interchangeable with Surgebinders and so we had the organization under the name of KR)

However, I feel very confused about the WoB that we haven't seen Voidbinding yet (anybody care to link it?). So I think that since that Everstorm we witnessed is something new and not the way it happened before, I can believe there is something strange going on. Maybe stormform is just some kind of "starter voidform" and only after they brought the Desolation they will start taking on true voidforms and show us some Voidbinding.

[Yata he/him]

Well KR is a subset of Surgebinders, but not every Surgebinder is a KR. They are not the same thing.

 

I't possible that the Voidbringers are Voidbinders but I find unlikely with the WoB we know.

 

In the end Voidbinding is probably something Human-relate... And this would explain the Dustbringer's bad reputation... If the enemy had Red-Eye's Humans at his service, the people will fear and distrust any Red-Eye's man.... The Listeners are quite different from a Human being and it's hard to miss the differences.

 

After all a VoidSpren may do the same thing a Radiant one may do I suppose. Seek compatible people and began a slow bonding... When the bond is strong enough and Odium has his Back-door to the Bonded-guy He may began to control him.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Yata

[echaozh he/him]

Talking about lightnings, I think Lightweavers may be able to summon lightnings too. Their power is light manipulation right? Electromagnetic wave manipulation that is. Lightning is among the possibilities.

[Yata he/him]

Talking about lightnings, I think Lightweavers may be able to summon lightnings too. Their power is light manipulation right? Electromagnetic wave manipulation that is. Lightning is among the possibilities.

I think is very above their ability. Also if they manipulate electromagnetic wave they have to find all the "lightning charge" and manipulate it in a Lightning...it's something very above the normal ambient energy you will find everywhere (of course if you aren't in a Storm)... but "Summon Lightning" is something within the Soulcasting possiblity.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Yata

[Rasarr she/her]

Talking about lightnings, I think Lightweavers may be able to summon lightnings too. Their power is light manipulation right? Electromagnetic wave manipulation that is. Lightning is among the possibilities.

 

Probably with Soulcasting rather than Illumination; Spark is one of the Ten Essences, after all. Likely much easier to Soulcast than Illuminate.

[natc]

To begin with, electromagnetic waves are formed from photons that originated from electrons, while lightning and electricity would be the electrons themselves.

Soulcasting things into lightning is probably easier.

[soulcastJam he/him]

Well, if you really want to get into it, electrons can be represented as a wave function too...

[DreamEternal]

Is there something that can't be represented by wave functions?

Edited May 13, 2016 by DreamEternal

[Argel he/him]

Straight line?     Thanks! I'll be here all weekl!! 

[DreamEternal]

Straight line? Thanks! I'll be here all weekl!!

Still a wave function. Zero is a number, you know?

[natc]

You can even calculate the diffraction of a brick, IIRC.

We clearly have to stop somewhere.

[kenod]

According to quantum mechanics any object is a wave, you can calculate the wave length using the formula "wave length = Planck constant / ( mass * speed in meters per second)". The Planck constant is 6,626 * 10^-34 Js.

[DreamEternal]

According to quantum mechanics any object is a wave, you can calculate the wave length using the formula "wave length = Planck constant / ( mass * speed in meters per second)". The Planck constant is 6,626 * 10^-34 Js.

The little I know of quantum mechanics made me arrive to the conclusion there are no such things as waves and particles(I mean, you can model sound as a particle, of all things), and both are only ways to make our brains capable of understanding a small sliver of the mind-bending true laws of this universe.

Edited May 14, 2016 by DreamEternal

[happyman he/him]

The little I know of quantum mechanics made me arrive to the conclusion there are no sich things as waves and particles(I mean, you can model sound as a particle, of all things), and both are only ways to make our brains capable of understanding a small sliver of the mind-bending true laws of this universe.

 

Not a bad way of looking at it.  A lot of modern physicists say that there actually is, are quantum fields.  Everything else we get from that (including particles and waves of all types, and there is no clean line between them) are derived from this.

[Moogle]

I've been wondering, can a human bond with a VoidSpren, giving them some of Odium's power, such as the red lightning the Parshendi used?

 

Yes.

 

Question

Can anyone other than a Parshendi bond a voidspren? Like, can a human bond a voidspren?

Brandon Sanderson

That is theoretically possible but humans are not good at bonding spren in the same way.

(source)

[Lurky McLurkerson he/him]

So, I wonder what a Voidbinder oath would look like? Is that part of the concept behind the oathpact?

[Pathfinder]

So, I wonder what a Voidbinder oath would look like? Is that part of the concept behind the oathpact?

That is assuming they have to take an oath at all. The implication that i got from the WoB is that the binding functions differently.