What Was The Lord Ruler, Really?

[Lilamal]

What was the Lord Ruler? He wasn't a Sliver, because someone else still held the Shards, but He could use their power. How is that possible? Plus, as a side question, was Vin whatever he was for the time she held the power? She only became a Sliver when Leras died, so what would it make her and Rashek if they used the power while he was still alive?

Edited April 11, 2016 by Lilamal

[A Joe in the Bush]

I don't think we need a word other than Sliver. They've held the power, so they're a sliver. Leras being alive or not shouldn't matter.

[Khyrindor]

Rashek was a Sliver. He held the power at the Well during his Ascension, because he didn't give it up. He used it, and it was left to refill. Vin could also be called a Sliver, but she died right after she held Preservation.

[Lilamal]

But that would mean that multiple people could hold the same Shard! Wait a minute, maybe that's what happened to Adonalsium! There are multiple people holding different parts of His power, so He spit into multiple pieces! Or something like that...

Edited April 11, 2016 by Lilamal

[Oversleep]

I think Preservation was a special case with Leras being basically brain dead. I don't think we're ever gonna see another situation with Shardholder still not dead but without a mind to guide the power.

[king of nowhere]

But that would mean that multiple people could hold the same Shard! Wait a minute, maybe that's what happened to Adonalsium! There are multiple people holding different parts of His power, so He spit into multiple pieces! Or something like that...

i think you are confusing a sliver with a shardholder.

truth to be told, i'm a bit hazy on the specifics myself, but they are two different things. bearing a shard is different from having limited access to the power of a shard.

[Master_Moridin]

WoB
 

Puck
"Is the definition of Sliver: Someone who has held a large part of the raw form of a Shard temporarily?"

Brandon Sanderson
"That is it"
(source)

 

So one does not have to have held the entirety of the Shard.

[Your3rdShadow]

Sliver status, beyond denoting that you once held a large amount of shard power, also means you've been altered by it. Say you became a Preservation sliver, you could ignore moving on after death if you so chose. I'm not quite sure what all being a sliver entails, or what the effects are if said effects vary by shard, but you are without a doubt altered by the process on the physical, cognitive, and spiritual levels.

[A Joe in the Bush]

Say you became a Preservation sliver, you could ignore moving on after death if you so chose. 

 

Is there a WoB for this? I've never heard this bit of info.

[Your3rdShadow]

It relates to the secret histories, I would have included more detail, but I'm not sure how to do the spoiler thing.

[Master_Moridin]

It relates to the secret histories, I would have included more detail, but I'm not sure how to do the spoiler thing.

 

[spoiler*] it's a secret[/spoiler*] but without the *

 

proof of concept

Edited April 12, 2016 by Master_Moridin

[Lilamal]

Would that mean Elend was a Sliver? Because, you know, he did ingest a bead of metal that was literally the essence of preservation in a super concentrated form.

[Master_Moridin]

Would that mean Elend was a Sliver? Because, you know, he did ingest a bead of metal that was literally the essence of preservation in a super concentrated form.

 

WoB says no, but a Lerasium Mistborn does get closer to matching the definition of Sliver-ness.

 

zas678

Also, would the Elantrians and the Lerasium-mistings be considered Slivers? Or is just the Lord Ruler and Vin Slivers (Via the Well)? Or do you need more power to be considered a Sliver?

Brandon Sanderson (Goodreads)

Elantrians are not slivers. Mistborn trilogy spoiler warnings follow! The Lord Ruler was indeed a Sliver. So was Vin. For the rest, I would say probably not.

What defines an actual Sliver of Adonalsium is not as clear-cut as you might think. It's a term that in-universe people who study this have applied to various existences and states. Every single person on the world of Scadrial has a bit of Leras in them—a bit of the power of Preservation. Every single person has a bit of Ati in them. There's a certain threshold where these scholars would call you a Sliver of Adonalsium. But I would say that any regular Misting is probably not a Sliver. A full Lerasium Mistborn is getting closer, but people who have held one of the powers are what would probably be termed a Sliver by the definitions. If you hold all the power that makes you a Shard, but the Lord Ruler held a little bit of it and then let it go. From then on they referred to that change in him—the residue, what was left—as a Sliver. When he held it he became the Shard for a short time, and Vin was a Shard for a short time. After Vin gave up the power, what Kelsier is at the end of the trilogy—that's a Sliver of Adonalsium.

(source)

[A Joe in the Bush]

It relates to the secret histories, I would have included more detail, but I'm not sure how to do the spoiler thing.

I've read Secret Histories and I don't think that's true.

SH spoilers:

Kelsier was preserved by Fuzz, long beforer he held the power of a shard.

[happyman]

I've read Secret Histories and I don't think that's true.

SH spoilers:

Kelsier was preserved by Fuzz, long beforer he held the power of a shard.

 

I think that just by virtue of being in the Well, Kelsier absorbed enough of the power of a shard to stay, regardless.

[AliasSheep]

No one was holding Preservation when TLR took up the power at The Well.

 

SH Spoilers

Fuzz was a cognitive shadow of Leras, as Leras had died millenia before

Edited April 12, 2016 by AliasSheep

[Master_Moridin]

No one was holding Preservation when TLR took up the power at The Well.

 

 

SH Spoilers?

 

Leras's Cognitive Shadow was 'holding' Preservation.  Kelsier taking up Preservation directly shows that this is possible.

[Pathfinder]

No one was holding Preservation when TLR took up the power at The Well.

 

SH Spoilers

Fuzz was a cognitive shadow of Leras, as Leras had died millenia before

As this is referring to Era 1 mistborn, I will write this without spoilers. Leras does not officially die till book three in the original trilogy. You literally see his body drop signalling his death. Up until then because he gave up most of his mind for the prison is why he was limited, but he was very much alive. 

[Yata]

As Pathfinder said Leras was quite mindless but still alive until HoA. He sacrificed his own mind to create the Ruin's prison and after that he slowly began to die, probably he will take other centourty to move on, if Ruin didn't accelerate this process.

 

And as others said anyone who Ascended may became a Cognitive Shadow e remaining in the realms (of course this doesn't mean that only the Ascended ones may become Cognitive Shadows).

SH Spoiler:

Kelsier became a Cognitive Shadow thanks to his long exposition to the Well, He was an anormaly case, also if in the end He kepth Preservation and became a rightfull Sliver by definition

[Voidus]

I've read Secret Histories and I don't think that's true.

SH spoilers:

Kelsier was preserved by Fuzz, long beforer he held the power of a shard.

I think this is more a reference to TLR and Vin both being able to stay if they wanted.

[Pathfinder]

Secret History Spoiler:

 

I believe the order of operations were thus:
1. Kelsier lingered because he was mistborn, and due to the extra investiture in him, he had more time than most people
2. Not wanting to go, he convinced Leras to let him do the trick with the Well which let him stick around indefinitely without holding the power, but being locked in with Ruin
3. Once Ruin was free, he was connected enough to preservation's power to stick around.
4. He picked up preservation's power to hold it long enough for Vin to take it

 

But that is all if I recall correctly, I would need to go back and check to be sure. 

[18th Shard]

I believe that the following is true; however, it is not confirmed absolutely.

 

Shards have a finite amount of attention. Proof: See Ruin in HoA, SH, Preservation in SH.

Leras therefore sacrificed the greatest amount of his attention, and therefore his capability to actively counter, in the imprisonment of Ruin. Therefore, while a small portion of him was free to act as he did following this, the majority of Preservation's consciousness, Leras's mind, was focused on maintaining an escapeless prison for Ruin. It required nearly his full attention to counter Ruin.

As Ruin attacked this consciousness, it lost power - it was being destroyed. When this was complete, Leras died. Upon Leras's death, the Shard of Preservation had no capability to act, with no mind, until Kelsier took it. He provided the mind of Preservation until he gave it to Vin.

[Yata]

As Ruin attacked this consciousness, it lost power - it was being destroyed. When this was complete, Leras died. Upon Leras's death, the Shard of Preservation had no capability to act, with no mind, until Kelsier took it. He provided the mind of Preservation until he gave it to Vin.

I agree with everything you said except the quoted part.

Without Leras, Preservation probably will continue to act like Leras told it to do for the past years (well if Ruin didn't Splinter it of course), snapping Allomancer and helping Vin.

 

We know that if a Vessel died the now Vesselless Shard may continue to act within the previous parameters if the Vessel held the Shard for enough time.

[Eki]

I agree with everything you said except the quoted part.

Without Leras, Preservation probably will continue to act like Leras told it to do for the past years (well if Ruin didn't Splinter it of course), snapping Allomancer and helping Vin.

We know that if a Vessel died the now Vesselless Shard may continue to act within the previous parameters if the Vessel held the Shard for enough time.

But remember that Leras' body didn't appear in the Physical Realm (which seems to happen when a Vessel dies, like with Ati and Vin) until HoA - that implies that Leras really WAS alive - a small part of him. Not just his cognitive shadow. (I haven't read SH yet though)

[Yata]

Yes I know, I don't talk about what Happened, but what will Happen after Leras death if Ruin didn't mess with Preservation's Shard (without Vessel)