Roshar vs Scadrial

[Voidus]

In terms of Shardbearers vs Koloss, I can easily see Shardbearers working together in small teams, supporting each other and being able to hold off against a large number of Koloss. Both opponents have comparable reach, but Shardblades can cut through Koloss swords and arms very easily. 

As demonstrated by the effects of a Chasmfiend claw on Elohkar, it takes a large amount of force to crack even sabotaged Shardplate- I think it would take a few solid whacks in one place to begin cracking, even when wielded by a Koloss. Should the 'bearers be supporting each other, I think they have a decent chance of forming a solid formation. Koloss bodies would pile up, and it would become harder and harder for new ones to attack. A single swing could kill a handful of Koloss.

 

That said, they would eventually be taken down, for sure. They aren't the nearly invincible warriors against koloss as they are against humans, especially if they go it alone.

 

And against hundreds of thousands of koloss? won't make much difference overrall

Yeah a team composed of a few different orders could do some damage, but since they'd be a couple hundred to one I'd say that they'd run out of Stormlight before the Koloss ran out... well the Koloss don't really run out of things

[Vissy]

It wouldn't be just those few hundred/few thousand Shardbearers against the koloss, though. Given that the KR had some time to prepare, I can imagine a strategy springing up to counter the koloss. Perhaps using Lightweavers to distract them, sending koloss falling into other koloss with gravitational Surges, the lines of Shardbearers supported by constant archer fire and resupplied with Stormlight...

 

Tell you what, it won't be a roflstomp in favour of the koloss. They'll still probably win, but I can see Roshar being able to hold out at a defensible location for a long time. 

[Blackhoof]

The issue is, if we are going say WoKs Roshar vs Final Empire Scadrial, then Roshar doesn't have any Knights Radiant, at least any who really know what they are doing.

 

And given that a mere human swinging a mace or hammer a few times can crack Shardplate, I imagine a single blow from a single Koloss could easily crack the section of Plate it hits. Given that there are at least a hundred thousand Koloss (we shouldn't count the ones Ruin creates, so the 300-500'000 numbers he supplies for the final battle are too high) I don't think any Shardbearer would last long enough to kill more than a few dozen Koloss each. 

 

That said, it wouldn't ever be a roflstomp against the Koloss with the numbers of Rosharan soldiers we are dealing with- hundreds and hundreds of thousands. Likely 400 thousand all up, for all of Roshar, and about 80-100 Shardbearers. They could perhaps even kill all the Koloss, if they are sent in first, alone. But the tattered remnants of Roshar's combined armies couldn't withstand the 500'000 Final Empire regulars and hundreds of mistings that would be waiting, drinking tea and ready to finish them off.

 

 

One thing no-one has mentioned- Roshar should get the Parshendi, since it is world vs world. The Parshendi are at least a hundred thousand strong at their peak, and are stronger than the average human. They would easily crush Final Emprie troops, imo. That said, they wouldn't crush Koloss, although they would certainly stand their ground against them and inflict heavy casualties. Parshendi could probably get a 2:1 kill ratio out of fighting Koloss, instead of the standard 4:1.

 

 

BUT, if Roshar did get a significant amount of Radiants.... I can see them winning. We can tell from what we've seen how powerful Windrunners like Kaladin and Szeth are. They could easily fly through Koloss lines, sending them flying into the air and crashing back down to their deaths. We can only assume that the other Orders are of similar levels of overpowered-ness. Even so, a quick coin if they were unarmoured could end them, unless they were expecting it.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Blackhoof

[Reborn radiant]

What you are all forgetting are the knights radiant. They can turn the tide of a battle in eye blinks. 
Scadirel has a lot of mistings? Roshar has a lot of radiants and squires. Rosharan magic is more powerful, more flexible and has wider range of applications than Scadrial magic, especially on a battle field. But considering that the stormlight is not available anywhere except on roshar, unless the battle takes place on Roshar, Scadiel is going to win easily. Also, metal is not easily available on Roshar, so if the battle takes place on Roshar, Roshar is going to win easily.

[Bugsy]

What you are all forgetting are the knights radiant. They can turn the tide of a battle in eye blinks.

Scadirel has a lot of mistings? Roshar has a lot of radiants and squires. Rosharan magic is more powerful, more flexible and has wider range of applications than Scadrial magic, especially on a battle field. But considering that the stormlight is not available anywhere except on roshar, unless the battle takes place on Roshar, Scadiel is going to win easily. Also, metal is not easily available on Roshar, so if the battle takes place on Roshar, Roshar is going to win easily.

Metal is actually extremely available on Roshar. Literally all of their weapons are made of it and a single soulcasters could provide a nearly infinite supply

Oh, and I think most people discount the aspect of the Thrill. It's the only reason the the Atheli army doesn't break regularly; their troops literally enjoy standing and fighting. Replace that with a feeling of dread and fear and low morale that regularly accompany troops in battle and add on the effects of soothers and rioters, as well as the intimidation factor of Koloss and Inquisitors (storming spikes through their eyes), and the Rosharan battle experience is largely negated beyond their actual skill (which still isn't all that helpful against Koloss and Mistborn).

Roshar is also largely conditioned to fighting the Parshendi, who avoid direct charge and fight in pairs, rather than Koloss who are basically an offensive wall of death

Edited May 19, 2016 by Bugsy6912

[Eki]

What you are all forgetting are the knights radiant. They can turn the tide of a battle in eye blinks.

Scadirel has a lot of mistings? Roshar has a lot of radiants and squires. Rosharan magic is more powerful, more flexible and has wider range of applications than Scadrial magic, especially on a battle field. But considering that the stormlight is not available anywhere except on roshar, unless the battle takes place on Roshar, Scadiel is going to win easily. Also, metal is not easily available on Roshar, so if the battle takes place on Roshar, Roshar is going to win easily.

Right now, between books 2 and 3, there really aren't many Knights - and only one or two trained to use their powers in combat, as far as we know. There seem to be many around the world who are starting to bond with spren, but most of them can't fight or anything.

As far as we know, only Kaladin, and possibly Jasnah, can use their powers to fight efficiently. Kaladin definitely, but Jasnah's display in that alley seemed to exert her, and be more about shock and awe. Dalinar is a great fighter, but no longer has shards to fight with. Shallan has a blade, but no training.

The only squires we know of are Kaladin's closest.

I don't doubt that a Knight would make a big difference, but there aren't many of them yet.

[asterion137]

Remember when Dalinar punched Elkohar in the chest 3 times to break his armor? I think Koloss will break shardplate just fine. Each knight radiant is worth MAYBE 50 koloss. Even with the hundred-odd shardbearers, they won't be able to put a dent in the Koloss army

[Argel]

And Dalinar was being careful not to hurt Elhokar.

[Voidus]

What you are all forgetting are the knights radiant. They can turn the tide of a battle in eye blinks. 

Scadirel has a lot of mistings? Roshar has a lot of radiants and squires. Rosharan magic is more powerful, more flexible and has wider range of applications than Scadrial magic, especially on a battle field. But considering that the stormlight is not available anywhere except on roshar, unless the battle takes place on Roshar, Scadiel is going to win easily. Also, metal is not easily available on Roshar, so if the battle takes place on Roshar, Roshar is going to win easily.

At their peak there were perhaps a couple thousand. Even if they had limitless stormlight (Which they probably wouldn't) they'd still each have to take out several hundred Koloss just to level the playing field. That's without even taking into account any of Scadrials magic users.

As I have said before, you'd have to take Roshar at its strongest and pit it against Scadrial at its weakest for them to even have a chance at winning this. If you were to give Roshar a fully equpped and trained Alethi army, and the Parshendi and also say that the Knights Radiant all went through some time portal that brought them into that era and say that Scadrial didn't use the Koloss or the southerners or the Inquisitors or the Lord Ruler then Roshar could probably win. Otherwise this battle goes to Scadrial pretty easily.

[asterion137]

At their peak there were perhaps a couple thousand. Even if they had limitless stormlight (Which they probably wouldn't) they'd still each have to take out several hundred Koloss just to level the playing field. That's without even taking into account any of Scadrials magic users.

As I have said before, you'd have to take Roshar at its strongest and pit it against Scadrial at its weakest for them to even have a chance at winning this. If you were to give Roshar a fully equpped and trained Alethi army, and the Parshendi and also say that the Knights Radiant all went through some time portal that brought them into that era and say that Scadrial didn't use the Koloss or the southerners or the Inquisitors or the Lord Ruler then Roshar could probably win. Otherwise this battle goes to Scadrial pretty easily.

Even in this scenario numbers and allomancy might give scadrial the win

[Blackhoof]

Metal is actually extremely available on Roshar. Literally all of their weapons are made of it and a single soulcasters could provide a nearly infinite supply

Oh, and I think most people discount the aspect of the Thrill. It's the only reason the the Atheli army doesn't break regularly; their troops literally enjoy standing and fighting. Replace that with a feeling of dread and fear and low morale that regularly accompany troops in battle and add on the effects of soothers and rioters, as well as the intimidation factor of Koloss and Inquisitors (storming spikes through their eyes), and the Rosharan battle experience is largely negated beyond their actual skill (which still isn't all that helpful against Koloss and Mistborn).

Roshar is also largely conditioned to fighting the Parshendi, who avoid direct charge and fight in pairs, rather than Koloss who are basically an offensive wall of death

 

Yeah, soothers and rioters could definitely dampen the Thrill. 

 

Well I wouldn't say all of Roshar is conditioned to fight the Parshendi- literally just the Alethi, as of five years ago. Other than that, everyone is used to fighting other humans.

 

 

Remember when Dalinar punched Elkohar in the chest 3 times to break his armor? I think Koloss will break shardplate just fine. Each knight radiant is worth MAYBE 50 koloss. Even with the hundred-odd shardbearers, they won't be able to put a dent in the Koloss army

 

That was with Shardplate on, you realise, thus with enhanced strength.

 

I think a Radiant would be worth more than that, although we haven't seen many of the Radiant powers. Windrunners and Skybreakers could likely smash and avoid Koloss pretty easily, killing far more than 50 before falling. They can do everything a full Mistborn like Vin can do, but more, and Vin could kill more than 50 before falling herself.

Or Elsecallers, turning Koloss into smoke or fire. Or Dustbringers, burning/melting them.

 

 

 

Even in this scenario numbers and allomancy might give scadrial the win

 

I'd say not- Radiants are very powerful from what we've seen. Picture several hundred Szeth's in Shardplate. they could scythe through an army of FE regulars, even if they had mistings.

Coinshots would be useless, as would Lurchers, and Thugs would only be useful if they can get close enough to land a hit, which is a rare occurrence against a full Shardbearer.

 

There are thousands of mistings, but one misting is worth a fraction of a Radiant combat-wise.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Blackhoof

[Voidus]

Yeah, soothers and rioters could definitely dampen the Thrill. 

 

Well I wouldn't say all of Roshar is conditioned to fight the Parshendi- literally just the Alethi, as of five years ago. Other than that, everyone is used to fighting other humans.

 

 

 

That was with Shardplate on, you realise, thus with enhanced strength.

 

I think a Radiant would be worth more than that, although we haven't seen many of the Radiant powers. Windrunners and Skybreakers could likely smash and avoid Koloss pretty easily, killing far more than 50 before falling. They can do everything a full Mistborn like Vin can do, but more, and Vin could kill more than 50 before falling herself.

Or Elsecallers, turning Koloss into smoke or fire. Or Dustbringers, burning/melting them.

 

 

 

 

I'd say not- Radiants are very powerful from what we've seen. Picture several hundred Szeth's in Shardplate. they could scythe through an army of FE regulars, even if they had mistings.

Coinshots would be useless, as would Lurchers, and Thugs would only be useful if they can get close enough to land a hit, which is a rare occurrence against a full Shardbearer.

 

There are thousands of mistings, but one misting is worth a fraction of a Radiant combat-wise.

Problem with Windrunners is largely their need to be in close quarters, Koloss just have a way better reach. Other than their hanced mobility there's not a whole lot a Windrunner can do that a Shardbearer couldn't against a Koloss.

Elsecallers could soulcast maybe a dozen into fire and would then have exhausted their Stormlight stores from what we've seen.

 

Also comparing any KR to Vin is not really fair, she's the literal messiah and Mistborn extraordinaire, I'd give her the win over almost any KR. They might be potentially stronger than a Mistborn but Mistborn have a lot more versatility and a lot more endurance. Especially an order like Windrunners which are close combat specialists, I'd say a Mistborn would fair pretty favorably against them.

[Bugsy]

Another interesting question: How well would shardblades work against Koloss? We know that shardblades slice through the spiritual aspect first, but since the Koloss' spiritual is focused in its spikes only (IIRC), would the blade actually damage them if it didn't hit the spikes?

Edited May 22, 2016 by Bugsy6912

[Edgedancer]

Another interesting question: How well would shardblades work against Koloss? We know that shardblades slice through the spiritual aspect first, but since the Koloss' spiritual is focused in its spikes only (IIRC), would the blade actually damage them if it didn't hit the spikes?

I think that unless the shardblade hits a spike, there wouldn't be all that much difference to normal flesh.

[asterion137]

Yeah, soothers and rioters could definitely dampen the Thrill. 

 

Well I wouldn't say all of Roshar is conditioned to fight the Parshendi- literally just the Alethi, as of five years ago. Other than that, everyone is used to fighting other humans.

 

 

 

That was with Shardplate on, you realise, thus with enhanced strength.

Dalinar was holding back as he didn't actually want to hurt Elkohar, plus Koloss will be almost as strong as a Shardbearer if not just as strong.

I think a Radiant would be worth more than that, although we haven't seen many of the Radiant powers. Windrunners and Skybreakers could likely smash and avoid Koloss pretty easily, killing far more than 50 before falling. They can do everything a full Mistborn like Vin can do, but more, and Vin could kill more than 50 before falling herself.

Or Elsecallers, turning Koloss into smoke or fire. Or Dustbringers, burning/melting them.

Radiants will die after a few shots to the chest by koloss. Since speed and strength are comparable and koloss have better reach, a lot of them are going to get hits in. Remember how Adolin lost to 3 shardbearers, including at least one with a hammer?

 

 

 

I'd say not- Radiants are very powerful from what we've seen. Picture several hundred Szeth's in Shardplate. they could scythe through an army of FE regulars, even if they had mistings.

Coinshots would be useless, as would Lurchers, and Thugs would only be useful if they can get close enough to land a hit, which is a rare occurrence against a full Shardbearer.

A dedicated team of coinshots could smash shardplate in minutes and jump away if targeted. We have seen large objects like boulders smash shardplate with ease. If 10 coinshots pushed an anvil into a KR's chest plate, the KR would die. Thugs are faster than Shardbearers, so they could land hits and get out of range quickly.

There are thousands of mistings, but one misting is worth a fraction of a Radiant combat-wise.

 

Edited May 22, 2016 by asterion137

[Oversleep]

Thugs are faster than Shardbearers, so they could land hits and get out of range quickly.

1. We do not really know that

We have evidence of regular humans killing koloss in battle

What is gonna Thug do? Maybe he could get a chance to land one hit before he gets sliced in half.

We have seen Shardbearers slaughter enemy armies just fine, and mind you: those weren't some puny humans, those were warform Parshendi (who can jump chasms at ease and are bigger than humans)

[asterion137]

1. We kind of do know that thugs are faster than shardbearers. Thugs consistently blitz normal humans. Shardplate users have zero speed showings. Shardplate makes one stronger, but it doesn't enhance reflexes the way pewter does. 

2. But we don't have evidence of them doing it without getting slaughtered themselves. In the batle of Luthadel, the humans held the wall and had months of preparation, but they still managed to kill only about a third of the numbers they themselves lost. Against Cett's army, horribly outnumbered and outflanked koloss killed four times their number.

3. Pewter users are fast enough to dodge normal human blows, so they can probably avoid one or two swings before they die. Kaladin does it even before he gets stormlight. With stormlight he outpaces them with ease.

4. Parshendi have no reach compared to koloss and koloss fight a lot more spread out than parshendi because of their reach and size. The shardbearers wouldn't be able to kill them as quickly because koloss fight relatively spread apart. Koloss are also much faster than Parshendi and multiple orders of magnitude stronger. Remember that Adolin and Dalinar had taken massive damage to their plate after the Tower battle. If they had been fighting koloss, the half that number of blows would have destroyed their plate almost completely.

[Blackhoof]

Problem with Windrunners is largely their need to be in close quarters, Koloss just have a way better reach. Other than their hanced mobility there's not a whole lot a Windrunner can do that a Shardbearer couldn't against a Koloss.

Elsecallers could soulcast maybe a dozen into fire and would then have exhausted their Stormlight stores from what we've seen.

 

Also comparing any KR to Vin is not really fair, she's the literal messiah and Mistborn extraordinaire, I'd give her the win over almost any KR. They might be potentially stronger than a Mistborn but Mistborn have a lot more versatility and a lot more endurance. Especially an order like Windrunners which are close combat specialists, I'd say a Mistborn would fair pretty favorably against them.

 

yeah, all that is fairly true. Although I would suggest that Lashing them upwards (like Szeth does to great effect) would be able to kill quite a few- only requires a touch, and enough stormlight for two or three seconds or falling upwards.

 

Although Vin was never actually the messiah, that was Sazed. It depends what type of Surgebinder she is fighting and if they have any Shards, I think. Kaladin without Plate but with his Shardspear should have a good chance- if he carries a shield he can draw away any coins she shoots, and he certainly has more mobility than her. He can heal most wounds she deals to him, and a single strike against her would put at least one limb out of action. Same with Szeth. It would be an interesting fight nonetheless.

 

 

Another interesting question: How well would shardblades work against Koloss? We know that shardblades slice through the spiritual aspect first, but since the Koloss' spiritual is focused in its spikes only (IIRC), would the blade actually damage them if it didn't hit the spikes?

 

I don't think Koloss souls are focused entirely in their spikes- the base human should still have their soul in their body. So I can't imagine they would work differently, although I don't know if the Invested spikes would resist Shardblade blows or not.

 

 

 

Dalinar was holding back as he didn't actually want to hurt Elkohar, plus Koloss will be almost as strong as a Shardbearer if not just as strong.

 

yes, I agree on this point

 

 

 

Radiants will die after a few shots to the chest by koloss. Since speed and strength are comparable and koloss have better reach, a lot of them are going to get hits in. Remember how Adolin lost to 3 shardbearers, including at least one with a hammer?

 

 

 

 

A dedicated team of coinshots could smash shardplate in minutes and jump away if targeted. We have seen large objects like boulders smash shardplate with ease. If 10 coinshots pushed an anvil into a KR's chest plate, the KR would die. Thugs are faster than Shardbearers, so they could land hits and get out of range quickly.

 

 

that is true, but Adolin wasn't a Knights Radiant with Surges. Szeth has shown he can take on three Shardbearers at once and win without too much trouble.

 

 

I actually disagree completely. Mere coins would have a negligible impact on Shardplate, and I don't think Steelpushes work like that with the anvil. If ten coinshots push on the anvil, the allomancy would consider it ten separate weights pushing against the anvil and back towards them- therefore the anvil would barely tumble and they would each be thrown backwards. We've never seen coinshots combine their shots like that- implying it simply cannot be done.

It is true that thugs are faster, but there is little chance they could get in and out quickly enough to avoid death. In? probably, if the thug leaps at the right time with a mace or hammer, but they would die once the Shardbearer quickly recovers. And if this is a KR with stormlight we are talking about, they wouldn't be faster at all. 

 

Radiants will die after a few shots to the chest by koloss. Since speed and strength are comparable and koloss have better reach, a lot of them are going to get hits in. Remember how Adolin lost to 3 shardbearers, including at least one with a hammer?

 

 

 

 

A dedicated team of coinshots could smash shardplate in minutes and jump away if targeted. We have seen large objects like boulders smash shardplate with ease. If 10 coinshots pushed an anvil into a KR's chest plate, the KR would die. Thugs are faster than Shardbearers, so they could land hits and get out of range quickly.

 

[asterion137]

yeah, all that is fairly true. Although I would suggest that Lashing them upwards (like Szeth does to great effect) would be able to kill quite a few- only requires a touch, and enough stormlight for two or three seconds or falling upwards.

I would not advise a KR to get close enough to tap a koloss. a few blows from koloss and the radiant will be a goner

Although Vin was never actually the messiah, that was Sazed. It depends what type of Surgebinder she is fighting and if they have any Shards, I think. Kaladin without Plate but with his Shardspear should have a good chance- if he carries a shield he can draw away any coins she shoots, and he certainly has more mobility than her. He can heal most wounds she deals to him, and a single strike against her would put at least one limb out of action. Same with Szeth. It would be an interesting fight nonetheless.

 

If she doesn't have atium or snipe him with a duralumin coinshot or have her coin pouch in general she would probably lose. Otherwise i see her pulling her metal storm trick or killing him instantly from long range.

 

that is true, but Adolin wasn't a Knights Radiant with Surges. Szeth has shown he can take on three Shardbearers at once and win without too much trouble.

 

 

I actually disagree completely. Mere coins would have a negligible impact on Shardplate, and I don't think Steelpushes work like that with the anvil. If ten coinshots push on the anvil, the allomancy would consider it ten separate weights pushing against the anvil and back towards them- therefore the anvil would barely tumble and they would each be thrown backwards.

Coins punch through helmets and armor with ease (Zane and Vin slaughter 40 armored men with just coins) and I'm not sure about the anvil thing. I'm pretty sure if they anchored themselves the coinshot team could at least throw cannnonballs around to achieve the same goal.

We've never seen coinshots combine their shots like that- implying it simply cannot be done.

TLR says soothers can combine their powers to control koloss. 

It is true that thugs are faster, but there is little chance they could get in and out quickly enough to avoid death. In? probably, if the thug leaps at the right time with a mace or hammer, but they would die once the Shardbearer quickly recovers. And if this is a KR with stormlight we are talking about, they wouldn't be faster at all. 

Yes, a KR with stormlight would equal if not exceed the strength and speed of a thug, but normal shardbearers can't hit kaladin at all. They miss and miss and miss until he runs out of stormlight and even then they miss.

[Voidus]

yeah, all that is fairly true. Although I would suggest that Lashing them upwards (like Szeth does to great effect) would be able to kill quite a few- only requires a touch, and enough stormlight for two or three seconds or falling upwards.

 

Although Vin was never actually the messiah, that was Sazed. It depends what type of Surgebinder she is fighting and if they have any Shards, I think. Kaladin without Plate but with his Shardspear should have a good chance- if he carries a shield he can draw away any coins she shoots, and he certainly has more mobility than her. He can heal most wounds she deals to him, and a single strike against her would put at least one limb out of action. Same with Szeth. It would be an interesting fight nonetheless.

Yeah a quick upwards Lashing could do the trick but it still requires touching them, if you're in a position to do that a Shardblade is almost certainly a better option. And also it wouldn't use Stormlight

Lashing one in the direction of a bunch of others could hold a few off long enough for you to Shardblade kill them though, but a full Lashing on the ground might be an even better option.

She still was, just not the final one If Vin had Atium she'd beat any Surgebinder hands down. Even without she'd be pretty likely to win against most if she had Duralumin, if she had neither I'd say it'd need a pretty talented Surgebinder to beat her, Kal maybe could once he's more practiced.

But any fight against her with an opponent who doesn't have plate is going to end pretty quickly, coin Durlaumin-pushed through the skull ends things pretty quick.

[natc]

On the koloss shardblade thing, the spikes contain strength. The body itself has a perfectly human soul stuck to it, and spikes simply don't contain more than they are supposed to.it should almost definitely work. They're still living creatures not using magic actively (besides the magic that created them and holds them together) so they ought to die like one.

[Voidus]

On the koloss shardblade thing, the spikes contain strength. The body itself has a perfectly human soul stuck to it, and spikes simply don't contain more than they are supposed to.it should almost definitely work. They're still living creatures not using magic actively (besides the magic that created them and holds them together) so they ought to die like one.

Yeah a Shardblade would kill a Koloss, even if it didn't, cutting through their spine as though it was non-living would still kill them.

Whether it would cut a spike or simply kill the soul in it is an interesting question though.

[Argel]

Whether it would cut a spike or simply kill the soul in it is an interesting question though.

 

Leaving a Flesh Golem?

[IndigoAjah]

The thing to remember with Vin is that winning fights she simply should not be able to using intuition, guile and combat intelligence is her thing. Logically, a Radiant with plate and blade vs a "normal" (not mist-enhanced) Vin without Atium or Duralumin should win (although she is pretty hard to hit in a one on one fight). But she should have lost a lot of battles. She was at a significant disadvantage in most of the fights we see onscreen, yet she always wins. I mean, logically, Shan should have beaten her (nevermind the other allomancers they had), TLR DEFINITELY should have, Zane should have, the Misting assassin groups had her at a significant disadvantage, she took out 4 Inquisitors out of 13 before needing any help etc. With that track record, it's hard to bet on even Kaladin against her.

 

However, she is also not representative of an average Mistborn

[Charlie.x.3000]

Well, the average Mistborn is stronger than Vin, since statistically, Vin's Mistborn bloodline has been diluted a lot from the original 9. Don't forget that old Mistborn didn't need duralumin to take control of Koloss.