General Cosmere Questions

[Mason Wheeler]

Does anyone know if any of these questions have an official answer (including a RAFO) yet?

 

• Are the Listeners human, in the same sense as kandra and koloss are human?
• Have we ever seen a kandra on another world besides Scadrial?
• Is it possible for a Shardholder to voluntarily relinquish their Shard and hand it over to someone else, without dying?
• How many of the original 16 Shardholders are still alive as of the most recent book?
• On Scadrial, would a bird like Kokerlii be able to perform the same function as a Smoker?
• We know that Soulcasters can't create Stormlight-capable gemstones, which are potential sources of power.  We know that Soulcasters can create metal.  Can Soulcasters create Allomantic metals, which are potential sources of power?
• In Words of Radiance we see that Ardents who use Soulcasting too much begin to change somewhat, their bodies starting to slowly become stonelike.
  • Is this essentially the same thing as the "savant" phenomenon known to occur among Allomancers?
  • Will this also happen to Radiants, such as Shallan, who use Soulcasting too much?
• As of Words of Radiance, do fabrials exist to duplicate any other Radiant abilities?
• With the restoration of Elantris, what happened to the Hoed and the Kayana?  (Taking hundreds of people who had been insane for the last few years and suddenly granting them godlike powers seems like a recipe for disaster.)
• What would an atium savant be like?
• Do any non-living Invested objects exist that weren't Invested by an act of a conscious being?
• With land and sea being inverted on Shadesmar, did any Radiants with the ability to visit Shadesmar ever think to use it to try to reach the Origin of Storms?
  • Related: since Highstorms are highly Invested as per Vasher, what's it like in Shadesmar in the location corresponding to a location in the Physical Realm that is currently being swept over by a highstorm?
• Did they have Highstorms on Roshar before the first Desolation began?
• Were the Heralds and their Honorblades around before the first Desolation began?
• Radiants absorb Stormlight from infused gems by breathing it in.  Would a Nalthian who got ahold of an infused Rosharan sphere be intrinsically able to do the same thing, and use the Stormlight inside for Breath?
  • If so, would they have trouble holding it in, as Szeth does?
    • Would it make a difference whether they were on Roshar or Nalthis?
• Why does Elantrian magic become less potent as the Elantrian gets farther away from home, but Dakhor magic does not?
• We've seen that Aons can be carved into physical objects and used to produce magical effects, such as Elantrian light-plates. In light of this are Dakhor bone-runes another aspect of the same magic system, or is it a completely distinct magic system from AonDor?
• If Atium is Ruin's body, what's with the non-metallic corpse that dropped when Vin killed him?

Edited March 26, 2016 by Mason Wheeler

[Unodus he/him]

I don't have all the answers, but I do know off the top of my head that...

 

• Have we ever seen a kandra on another world besides Scadrial?
  Yes. http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/7751-wheres-waldo-the-kandra-worldhopper/?hl=%20where#39;s 

• If Atium is Ruin's body, what's with the non-metallic corpse that dropped when Vin killed him?
  The human body was Ati, the person who was holding the shard of Ruin

Edited March 26, 2016 by Unodus

[Landis963 he/him]

What answers I can provide will be in bold.  

 

 

Does anyone know if any of these questions have an official answer (including a RAFO) yet?

 

• Are the Listeners human, in the same sense as kandra and koloss are human? No.  Them and the Aimians are separate races from human.
• Have we ever seen a kandra on another world besides Scadrial? Apparently there's a kandra on Roshar, but good luck finding them.  (We've got a whole thread looking for said kandra, search for "Where's WalDo."  
• Is it possible for a Shardholder to voluntarily relinquish their Shard and hand it over to someone else, without dying?
• How many of the original 16 Shardholders are still alive as of the most recent book?  As far as we know, Odium's killed 4 Shards (Devotion, Dominion, Honor, and one other that Brandon's told us about) and Ruin and Preservation's Vessels died during the events of Mistborn Era 1.  Therefore, 10 of the original Shardholders remain.  
• On Scadrial, would a bird like Kokerlii be able to perform the same function as a Smoker? This question has been RAFO'd in the past, but empirical evidence suggests yes.  
• We know that Soulcasters can't create Stormlight-capable gemstones, which are potential sources of power.  We know that Soulcasters can create metal.  Can Soulcasters create Allomantic metals, which are potential sources of power?  Base metals, definitely.  Alloys might be a bit harder to reproduce in the precise ratios necessary for Allomancy.  
• In Words of Radiance we see that Ardents who use Soulcasting too much begin to change somewhat, their bodies starting to slowly become stonelike.
  • Is this essentially the same thing as the "savant" phenomenon known to occur among Allomancers? I believe it has been stated that Investiture changes someone over time (From the effects that the Shards have on their Vessels all the way down to savantism and the physical mutations of Soulcasting Ardents)
  • Will this also happen to Radiants, such as Shallan, who use Soulcasting too much? Eventually, maybe, but in the short term the major change is in eye color.  
• As of Words of Radiance, do fabrials exist to duplicate any other Radiant abilities? Fabrials exist that mimic all the Surges.  
• With the restoration of Elantris, what happened to the Hoed and the Kayana?  (Taking hundreds of people who had been insane for the last few years and suddenly granting them godlike powers seems like a recipe for disaster.) Their minds were reverted to neurotypical when the damage was repaired - see also Adien, who was Elantrian and autistic before Raoden fixed the Shaod.  
• What would an atium savant be like? They would Ascend to hold Ruin.  
• Do any non-living Invested objects exist that weren't Invested by an act of a conscious being?  I don't believe so.  
• With land and sea being inverted on Shadesmar, did any Radiants with the ability to visit Shadesmar ever think to use it to try to reach the Origin of Storms?
  • Related: since Highstorms are highly Invested as per Vasher, what's it like in Shadesmar in the location corresponding to a location in the Physical Realm that is currently being swept over by a highstorm?
• Did they have Highstorms on Roshar before the first Desolation began?
• Were the Heralds and their Honorblades around before the first Desolation began? 
• Radiants absorb Stormlight from infused gems by breathing it in.  Would a Nalthian who got ahold of an infused Rosharan sphere be intrinsically able to do the same thing, and use the Stormlight inside for Breath? Yes - this is how Zahel gets his weekly Breath, although he's had difficulty using Stormlight to Awaken things.  
  • If so, would they have trouble holding it in, as Szeth does?
    • Would it make a difference whether they were on Roshar or Nalthis? Investiture is Investiture is Investiture - the problem is getting it to work right in the target magic system.  
• Why does Elantrian magic become less potent as the Elantrian gets farther away from home, but Dakhor magic does not?  We don't know for certain.  I suspect that it is a matter of where you activate the relevant Investiture - Dakhor magic is activated in the monastery of the same name, while Aons are activated whereever the caster is.  
• We've seen that Aons can be carved into physical objects and used to produce magical effects, such as Elantrian light-plates. In light of this are Dakhor bone-runes another aspect of the same magic system, or is it a completely distinct magic system from AonDor?  I would suspect yes.  
• If Atium is Ruin's body, what's with the non-metallic corpse that dropped when Vin killed him?  Those corpses (Preservation dropped one as well, if you'll recall) are not the corpses of the Shards so much as they are the corpses of the Shard's Vessels.  

 

[Pagerunner he/him]

(Oh my goodness, I'm being Ninja'd so hard right now. I spend way too much time typing.)

 

Have you looked through these two threads? You might find some answers, or find that some questions haven't been answered.

 

Some questions I can provide answers to: (Not sure if you've read Mistborn: Secret History. I'll hide spoilers from it, just in case.)

 

• Have we ever seen a kandra on another world besides Scadrial?
• Is it possible for a Shardholder to voluntarily relinquish their Shard and hand it over to someone else, without dying?
• How many of the original 16 Shardholders are still alive as of the most recent book?
• On Scadrial, would a bird like Kokerlii be able to perform the same function as a Smoker?
• We know that Soulcasters can't create Stormlight-capable gemstones, which are potential sources of power.  We know that Soulcasters can create metal.  Can Soulcasters create Allomantic metals, which are potential sources of power?
• Radiants absorb Stormlight from infused gems by breathing it in.  Would a Nalthian who got ahold of an infused Rosharan sphere be intrinsically able to do the same thing, and use the Stormlight inside for Breath?
  • If so, would they have trouble holding it in, as Szeth does?
    • Would it make a difference whether they were on Roshar or Nalthis?
• Why does Elantrian magic become less potent as the Elantrian gets farther away from home, but Dakhor magic does not?
• If Atium is Ruin's body, what's with the non-metallic corpse that dropped when Vin killed him?

 

• Brandon has said there is a worldhopper Kandra in a published novel. Due to the nature of kandra, identification has been extremely difficult. But there's one out there somewhere.
• In Secret History,
  we see Kelsier relinquish Preservation so Vin can have it. Granted, he was already dead, but it didn't destroy his cognitive shadow like it did to Leras.

• Brandon has intentionally RAFOd this question. He wants to show us, not tell us. But he has killed at least one Shard we haven't seen, aside from Honor, Devotion, and Dominion. He's also RAFOd if a Shard has changed hands, other than Harmony.
• Kokerlii hides minds, while Copper hides active use of Investiture; it appears the predators have something closer to Nalthis's life sense, as opposed to Bronze. We've yet to see the Aviar interact with active Investiture.
• Metals are not a source of power, they are a key to power, like an Aon. The power comes form elsewhere, and the metal shows how the power is to be used. Soulcasters can create Allomantically pure metals (copper, iron), but alloys (pewter, bronze) are not necessarily the correct mixtures.
• Zahel (a.k.a. Vasher from Warbreaker) has successfully hacked the magic system to consume Stormlight instead of Breath. He has not been able to use it to Awaken, however.
• The actual "magic" might be done in Fjordell, charging the individuals with Investiture they can take elsewhere. By sacrificing one of their members, they access the magic that was stored in him earlier. As an interesting side note, the potion that Hrathen uses is also Invested, from a different magic system, and functions fine in Elantris.
• There is a distinction between the Shards and the mortals who Ascended to hold them. Ruin and Preservation are the Shards, and the physical embodiments of their power can appear in several forms: solid in metals, liquid in the Well of Ascension, gaseous in the mists. On other worlds, there are similar embodiments of the power: Stormlight is gaseous Investiture from Honor, the lake in the mountains near Elantris is the liquid form of the Shard Devotion. In Secret History,
  we get to see how the power of the Shard had overwhelmed the individual, named Ati, who held it, and was driving his actions.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Are the Listeners human, in the same sense as kandra and koloss are human?

No, as far as we are aware the listeners are a distinct species.

 

Have we ever seen a kandra on another world besides Scadrial?

There is WoB that there are kandra worldhoppers but we do not know their identity.

 

Is it possible for a Shardholder to voluntarily relinquish their Shard and hand it over to someone else, without dying?

I'm pretty sure this is unknown.

 

How many of the original 16 Shardholders are still alive as of the most recent book?

Unknown.

 

On Scadrial, would a bird like Kokerlii be able to perform the same function as a Smoker?

We know they would be able to block an Awakener's life-sense at the very least so I'd be surprised if they couldn't.

 

We know that Soulcasters can't create Stormlight-capable gemstones, which are potential sources of power.  We know that Soulcasters can create metal.  Can Soulcasters create Allomantic metals, which are potential sources of power?

Yes, though alloys would be trickier since you have to get the ratios right. The reason being that the normal metals are not actually powering Allomancy they act as conduits for Preservation's power. Lerasium and atium however, as the physical form of Preservation and Ruin's Investiture do power Allomancy, they also cannot be created via Soulcasting.

 

In Words of Radiance we see that Ardents who use Soulcasting too much begin to change somewhat, their bodies starting to slowly become stonelike. Is this essentially the same thing as the "savant" phenomenon known to occur among Allomancers? Will this also happen to Radiants, such as Shallan, who use Soulcasting too much?

Unknown, though the savant idea is something that has been proposed before.

 

As of Words of Radiance, do fabrials exist to duplicate any other Radiant abilities?

There is WoB that it is possible to duplicate all forms of Surgebinding via fabirals. Whether they exist or not is unknown, though it is theorized that the Oathgates are Transporation fabrials.

 

With the restoration of Elantris, what happened to the Hoed and the Kayana?  (Taking hundreds of people who had been insane for the last few years and suddenly granting them godlike powers seems like a recipe for disaster.)

There is no reason to think they did not become full Elantrians.

 

What would an atium savant be like?

There is WoB that being a lerasium savant is "essentially what Ascension is", I'm inclined to think the same applies to atium.

 

Do any non-living Invested objects exist that weren't Invested by an act of a conscious being?

Unknown.

 

With land and sea being inverted on Shadesmar, did any Radiants with the ability to visit Shadesmar ever think to use it to try to reach the Origin of Storms?

Unknown.

 

Related: since Highstorms are highly Invested as per Vasher, what's it like in Shadesmar in the location corresponding to a location in the Physical Realm that is currently being swept over by a highstorm?

Unknown.

 

Did they have Highstorms on Roshar before the first Desolation began?

I believe we have WoB that the highstorms are a natural part of Roshar and that they existed before Honor and Cultivation arrived.

 

Were the Heralds and their Honorblades around before the first Desolation began?

Unknown.

 

Radiants absorb Stormlight from infused gems by breathing it in.  Would a Nalthian who got ahold of an infused Rosharan sphere be intrinsically able to do the same thing, and use the Stormlight inside for Breath? If so, would they have trouble holding it in, as Szeth does? Would it make a difference whether they were on Roshar or Nalthis?

It's unlikely that they would be able to infuse Stormlight without some hacking of the system.

 

Why does Elantrian magic become less potent as the Elantrian gets farther away from home, but Dakhor magic does not?

All Selish magic looses power away from it's home region. The power reduction just appears to be more dramatic in AonDor, likely because of the Elantris power enhancing Aon.

 

We've seen that Aons can be carved into physical objects and used to produce magical effects, such as Elantrian light-plates. In light of this are Dakhor bone-runes another aspect of the same magic system, or is it a completely distinct magic system from AonDor?

Brandon has said that technically all Selish magics are different manifestations of a single system.

 

If Atium is Ruin's body, what's with the non-metallic corpse that dropped when Vin killed him?

Atium is Ruin's body the corpse that showed up was Ati's.

[Oversleep]

There is WoB that being a lerasium savant is "essentially what Ascension is", I'm inclined to think the same applies to atium.

Marsh is an atium savant, so...

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Marsh is an atium savant, so...

Do you have WoB on that?

[Pagerunner he/him]

I found some secondhand mentions, but no link to the WoB. Although, I did find a report that says atium savants can see farther into the future, which actually answers OP's question, but it doesn't help us track down any info on Marsh's Savantism.

[Oversleep]

I have nothing but what Pagerunner linked.

[natc]

There is also a difference between allomantic atium and lerasium. The former is just another ability, and the power leaves you when you stop burning. The latter appears to linger and invest your soul permanently.

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

There should be something similar than with atium and hemalurgy. What would be the question...

[Jondesu he/him]

There should be something similar than with atium and hemalurgy. What would be the question...

There is.  Atium spikes can apparently steal any ability, instead of needing to match up the right metal for a particular ability.

 

jW

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

I meant about the idea that a lerasium savant is ascending.

As an aside, considering that Atium has innate investiture, what would happen if someone spikes themself with atium? What would be the effect?

[Landis963 he/him]

I meant about the idea that a lerasium savant is ascending.

As an aside, considering that Atium has innate investiture, what would happen if someone spikes themself with atium? What would be the effect?

 

The power will be stronger than it would be if a spike of a different metal was charged with whatever the atium spike was charged with.  Otherwise no additional effects.  

[baby he/him]

Allomancy is (mostly) a Scadrial thing, but Hemalurgy is designed to be used across worlds, and I think that Brandon said it was there from the very beginning. Probably why atium doesn't have too much of an effect on it. 

[Mason Wheeler]

Allomancy is (mostly) a Scadrial thing

...but we do see Hoid using it in Words of Radiance, presumably Soothing Shallan's father.

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

You misunderstood. If you take an uncharged piece of Atium and spike yourself with it, what would be the effect? Since atium without charge is still investiture (as it's Ruin's body) I have this crazy feeling that it should do something. What, I don't know. Rashek's metalminds are the only non charged Atium spikes I know of and we can't really see what they do. (Besides allow Ruin's influence in.)

Another weird question; if someone has a spike of, say, steel uses it to store Feruchemical speed and then compounds, what would be the result. Again, the only time we've seen all three systems used together was Rashek's Atium metalminds. They were hemalurgic spikes and metalminds and he was compounding.

[Mason Wheeler]

Another weird question; if someone has a spike of, say, steel uses it to store Feruchemical speed and then compounds, what would be the result.

He would turn into Barry Allen.

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

Actually, I grew up with Wally West... LOL! But I think Brandon has nixed that possibility.

[natc]

You misunderstood. If you take an uncharged piece of Atium and spike yourself with it, what would be the effect? Since atium without charge is still investiture (as it's Ruin's body) I have this crazy feeling that it should do something. What, I don't know. Rashek's metalminds are the only non charged Atium spikes I know of and we can't really see what they do. (Besides allow Ruin's influence in.)

Another weird question; if someone has a spike of, say, steel uses it to store Feruchemical speed and then compounds, what would be the result. Again, the only time we've seen all three systems used together was Rashek's Atium metalminds. They were hemalurgic spikes and metalminds and he was compounding.

Technically even a piece of bread is investiture. Like everything in the cosmere. Atium is just different by origin. Just as much affected by steelpushes as your average can of clam chowder, unlike metalminds, shardblades, and what have you.

[Landis963 he/him]

You misunderstood. If you take an uncharged piece of Atium and spike yourself with it, what would be the effect? Since atium without charge is still investiture (as it's Ruin's body) I have this crazy feeling that it should do something. What, I don't know. Rashek's metalminds are the only non charged Atium spikes I know of and we can't really see what they do. (Besides allow Ruin's influence in.)

Another weird question; if someone has a spike of, say, steel uses it to store Feruchemical speed and then compounds, what would be the result. Again, the only time we've seen all three systems used together was Rashek's Atium metalminds. They were hemalurgic spikes and metalminds and he was compounding.

 

If you spike yourself with the intent of doing Hemalurgy, it will latch on to a power of yours (or if you have no powers, it will take some mundane quality to become half of a kandra Blessing) and become a Hemalurgic spike.  Your body will therefore ignore the foreign object as though it were part of you, and your soul will become cracked.  If you just stab yourself with atium without the Hemalurgic intent, you have just stabbed yourself with a metal knife, better get to a hospital.  

 

And we don't know what, exactly, happens if you burn a charged hemalurgic spike (metalmind or no) as allomantic fuel.  Evidence does not suggest a pretty picture, but it has been RAFO'd before.  

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

The thing is, Rashek had no intention of his bracers being hemalurgic spikes when he made them. But they were. My understanding of that WoB was that Atium, being made of investiture, does do something hemalurgically when not being used to steal or grant another attribute. To put it another way, there is no such thing as an uncharged Atium spike. At least, that was my understanding of the matter.

I believe Brandon said the spikes could be used as fuel but the process is excruciating for the one doing it. I know I read that somewhere...

Edited March 28, 2016 by Kingsdaughter613

[happyman he/him]

The thing is, Rashek had no intention of his bracers being hemalurgic spikes when he made them. But they were.

 

Ruin can provide the intent.  Which means that TLR's wishes really have no bearing on the problem.