Stormgate Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 I have a theory about how the Shattering happened. In the play Julius Caesar, the main event is when a group of people who are upset with the power of the one in charge form a conspiracy and stab the guy in charge several times. Perhaps this happened with the Shattering, 16-17 individuals stabbed Adonalsium, transforming the knives they held into the most powerful Hemalurgic spikes ever. I don't believe that Hemalurgy was created by Ruin, only implemented. The power lost in the transfer of power went into Adonalsium, which was then removed by Cephandrius' knife. The amount of Investiture contained in the spikes was so massive as to be reminiscent of an unkeyed metalmind or an overfilled water balloon. The Investiture escaped, and flowed into the Vessels, and they Ascended. Except for Cephandrius, who, ashamed of his actions, decided to take on the name of his dead master, and try to stop the violence that the new Vessles were unfortunately prone to by nature. And perhaps that is how Adonalsium Shattered. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nashan’Elin Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Do you think Adonalsium had a physical body that even could be stabbed? I like the idea about Hemalurgy being involved, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Invested Beard Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) Well, Leras does have a very odd relationship with that bone handled knife of his... Edited March 11, 2016 by The Invested Beard 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 I don't think Adonalsium was a physical being but indeed it's possible, also if the whole mechanics you described seems to me wrong :S OT: This post surpised me, in a Forum with a foreign language, reading a title in my language made me stuck for some seconds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericMastermindAnt Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) *"Et tu". Caesar wasn't saying "Away you, Brutus!" or "Out of you, Brutus!", but "And you, Brutus?" Also isn't this theory somewhat similar to this one I made a couple weeks ago (read: a week and a half ago), but slightly less credible (yes, I know, I'm surprised too) because in SH Leras said that Hoid refused to join their little conspiracy to go kill Adonalsium. Edited March 11, 2016 by GenericMastermindAnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) *"Et tu". Caesar wasn't saying "Away you, Brutus!" or "Out of you, Brutus!", but "And you, Brutus?" The choice of worlds are traslate like "and you, brutus ?" but the meaning is more like "also you, Brutus?" as a surprise to find brutus among the killers. Edited March 11, 2016 by Yata 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baby Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 Does hemalurgy being present imply that all the other Shards' magic systems were alive and present as well? It wouldn't make sense if it was only hemalurgy that was the magic system back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted March 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 Hemalurgy was designed to be possible throughout the Cosmere. It's not unreasonable to believe that it existed pre-Shattering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) To me, you push this "designed to be possible in the whole Cosmere" too far, with a bit of execption (Selish's one) many Magic System works through the whole Cosmere, not just the Hemalurgy. Now or you says that all the magic systems predate the shattering and there are on Yolen at that time (like if all the 16 shards was Invested there) or the idea of Hemalurgy is simply strange and remember that Hemalurgy itself borned through the Scadrial's Focus. Now just for fun and with very little precision I tried to count the number of magic system that will arise if all the Shards Invested the same planet...20 thousand of billion of Magic Systems and I just take the magic system risen by single shard and couple of shards, without take the others (I Swear it). I suppose that the magic works really differently pre-shattering because instead this would be very caotic/impossible Edited March 12, 2016 by Yata 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 I don't think this is what happened but I do think it's an interesting and clever theory. Upvote for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericMastermindAnt Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 The choice of worlds are traslate like "and you, brutus ?" but the meaning is more like "also you, Brutus?" as a surprise to find brutus among the killers. Having the meaning be "and you, Brutus" works fine in that context because Caesar has been betrayed by a bunch of people he liked, so it could be him thinking "Cinna, Casca, Cassius, Metellus Cimber.... and you, Brutus?". Also, I do realise I just listed all of the C conspirators. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericMastermindAnt Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Now just for fun and with very little precision I tried to count the number of magic system that will arise if all the Shards Invested the same planet...20 thousand of billion of Magic Systems and I just take the magic system risen by single shard and couple of shards, without take the others (I Swear it). On that topic, on Roshar Brandon has said there are 30 different magic things (terribly specific term, I know): 10 Surges, 10 Essences (for soul casting) and 10 of something to do with fabrials (Brandon was quite vague on the point as far as I am aware). For the purposes of that, Roshar only has two shards interacting, Honor and Cultivation, as Odium didn't affect the magic system there as far as I am aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) On that topic, on Roshar Brandon has said there are 30 different magic things (terribly specific term, I know): 10 Surges, 10 Essences (for soul casting) and 10 of something to do with fabrials (Brandon was quite vague on the point as far as I am aware). For the purposes of that, Roshar only has two shards interacting, Honor and Cultivation, as Odium didn't affect the magic system there as far as I am aware. He often say that depend how you "count them" ... For example is Surgebinding a Magic System or are 10 magic systems (one for order or maybe counting the surges) ? Recently himself said that on Roshar there are 3 magic systems properly: Surgebinding, Voidbinding, Fabrial (he added also the Old magic but he said "it's a weird thing" and probably doens't count it). Probably the counting of 30 was about the single power, like you may count Allomancy like a Magic System or 16 (one for any Misting) and of course the same thing with Feruchemy. And anyway I suppose that Odium in some way put its own to the rise of magic systems on Roshar.. He is near and Invested some of this on Roshar Itself. Edited March 14, 2016 by Yata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaelan Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 I just would like to point that there's WoB somewhere that states that mundane objects can have a limited amount of investiture. Maybe something related to Nightblood? I remember reading that it was closer to the cap than shardblades. Anyways, my point beeing that if Nightblood is relatively close to a cap, I can't see an hemalurgic spike holding Adonalsium's investiture. Not even 16. Correct me if I'm mistaken or I did misunderstand what Sanderson says, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 Anyways, my point beeing that if Nightblood is relatively close to a cap, I can't see an hemalurgic spike holding Adonalsium's investiture. Not even 16. Correct me if I'm mistaken or I did misunderstand what Sanderson says, please. Yeah, the Hemalurgy as far as we saw is a "low Investiture" Magic System... it steals part of the Spirit Web not great amount of Investiture. Indeed you may use an Hemalurgic Spike as Metalmind without any king of problem because the Investiture-Interference is quite none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeMarshall Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 I think the general outline of how hoid/cephandrus was involved and what happened might be right. Hoid doesn't seem to see eye to eye with many of the shards (with the exception of Tanavast who apparently bought him a drink) and he was probably involved in killing adolnasium. But I am dubious of whether hemalurgy was in fact the agent of the power transfer. I mean, why would that magic system in particular have existed before the shards? And also note that hemalurgy is metal based like other scadrial-specific forms of magic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blightsong Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 I asked Brandon if Hemalurgy could hold a shard and he told me it would be too much investiture, so this couldn't happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhoof Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 Maybe they were like Tardis spikes, bigger on the inside? Specially designed to hold absurd amounts of power. That said, Brandon specifically ruled it out, so I suppose it is a no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 Maybe they were like Tardis spikes, bigger on the inside? Specially designed to hold absurd amounts of power. That said, Brandon specifically ruled it out, so I suppose it is a no. In Hemalurgy (like in the other Metallic Arts) the Metal's structure is very important. I imagine you can't change too the material of a possible Spike without ruins the ability of that metal to become a Spike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted May 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 So, not spikes. Maybe the same sort of idea, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeMarshall Posted September 3, 2016 Report Share Posted September 3, 2016 Friends, Yolenese, countrymen, lend me your ears; I come to bury Adolnasium, not to praise him. The evil that gods do lives after them; The good is oft interred with their bones; So let it be with Adolnasium. The noble Tanavast Hath told you Adolnasium was ambitious: If it were so, it was a grievous fault, And grievously hath Adolnasium answer'd it. Here, under leave of Tanavast and the rest-- For Tanavast is an honourable man; So are they all, all honourable men-- Come I to speak in Adolnasium's funeral. He was my friend, faithful and just to me: But Tanavast says he was ambitious; And Tanavast is an honourable man. He hath brought much investiture to Yolen Whose benefit did the general coffers fill: Did this in Adolnasium seem ambitious? When that the poor have cried, Adolnasium hath wept: Ambition should be made of sterner stuff: Yet Tanavast says he was ambitious; And Tanavast is an honourable man. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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