Secret History and WoK Death Rattles

[Delightful]

It occurred to me while rereading WoK that the Death Rattle people are probably seeing into Shadesmar - and being influenced somehow by the Unmade(?) - because they're naturally passing through the Cognitive Realm on their way to final death, whatever that means.

[Voidus]

This seems like a pretty reasonable conclusion.

Wish I could say more but yeah, basically I concur.

[Argent]

I don't see how seeing into the Cognitive Realm would grant those who are about to die any kind of future insight though. We've now spent quite a bit of time in Scadrial's Cognitive Realm, and it's only a little more interesting than the Physical. The only time we see any kind of foretelling is when Leras grabs Kelsier and, as I understood it, allowed him to see into the Spiritual Realm. That I could maybe accept as related to the death rattles. 

[emailanimal]

Are all death rattles actually visions of the future (or a possible future)? Some may just as well be referring to past Desolations.  The Unmade (whatever its name is - I forget) presumably channels some power of Odium.  We actually do not know that much about the specific powers of Odium. We see some effects, but that's about it.

[natc]

I don't see how seeing into the Cognitive Realm would grant those who are about to die any kind of future insight though. We've now spent quite a bit of time in Scadrial's Cognitive Realm, and it's only a little more interesting than the Physical. The only time we see any kind of foretelling is when Leras grabs Kelsier and, as I understood it, allowed him to see into the Spiritual Realm. That I could maybe accept as related to the death rattles.

They don't need to be able to see the future, only the Unmade has to, and it's likely a Cognitive entity. It just has to grant them the knowledge somehow, maybe hijack their speech.

[Yata]

Well a possible explaination may be:

the Unmade (in the Cognitive) reachs someone near to Death (requirement to Interact with it maybe) and use the victim's Investiture to push itself a bit in the Spiritual Realm (to catch the future)... while the victim are drained by his own Investiture shares the vision from the Unmade.

(Something similar to what Leras does with Kelsier...but Leras has no need to feed of other Invetiture).

 

Another possible explaination is similar to the previous but the Unmade needs a "Victim" because the Humans has anchor to all three realms and It may use this propriety to push the victim in the Spiritual and "share/steal" his vision of the future.

[Skaa pirate]

But don't some of the death rattles speak of past events too? Does the Unmade need to see into the spiritual realm to view the past, or are the death rattles about the past its way of trying to make humans understand the real depth of the desolations?

[Yata]

But don't some of the death rattles speak of past events too? Does the Unmade need to see into the spiritual realm to view the past, or are the death rattles about the past its way of trying to make humans understand the real depth of the desolations?

See through the Spiritual is hard and there everything past, present and future are the same, probably they recive everytime something random and this is the reason to the great number of Death Rattles... The Unmade keeps trying until it get what it want ?

 

Or at least I think it is the reason, also a full Shard have trouble to see something specific in the Spiritual, a lesser being have more trouble to navigate the Eternity.

[Ari]

I'm not sure Secret History particularly illuminates much on how the specific Unmade handling Death Rattles works. (Was it Moloch that did death rattles? All I remember in terms of name/power combos is that Nergaoul, or however you spell it, does the Thrill)

 

From the dialogue in Secret History, it seemed like people's shades came into the Cognitive briefly, but it was always well after their dying words. (reference the Lord Ruler not mentioning Ruin to Kelsier the same way he does to Vin) If Moloch or whichever unmade actually does Death Rattles works using that mechanic, he's somehow making the transition to the Cognitive more gradual, or pushing something into people's minds before that transition takes place.
 

Edited March 7, 2016 by Ari

[Knotai]

Moelach is the one who causes the Death Rattles--King T notes that whenever he is close, the death rattles increase.

 

That said, the movement of the Unmade in the physical Realm is linked to their motion in the Cognitive Realm, so I do agree with that he is doing something to people as they pass through the Cognitive Realm on to the Spiritual on Roshar.

[DocHoliday]

Knotai beat me to it.

Moments of trauma create "cracks" in our Spirit Web, allowing "something" to Fill it.

KR who live, bond spren.

I think death counts as pretty sufficient trauma, psychologically at the least, to let Moelach enter momentarily; and as previously noted it's HIS ability to peer into the future.

That being said, I'm pretty sure the death rattles can relate to past and present moments at the least.

Everything future related is contingent on Moelach

[Farnsworth]

So, is Moelach causing the death rattles by getting inside of people's cracks? Wouldn't that mean that he is constantly inside of people's souls? He would have to be extremely powerful. Is it even possible to become that powerful?

[The Sovereign]

So, is Moelach causing the death rattles by getting inside of people's cracks? Wouldn't that mean that he is constantly inside of people's souls? He would have to be extremely powerful. Is it even possible to become that powerful?

 

Well, he is a Splinter of Odium, I suspect his power would depend on how large of a splinter of Odium's power he is.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Iron Eyes