PadraicSeebrr Posted February 20, 2016 Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) So at the end of The Secret History, Kelsier appears to Spook and declares that "Ignorance almost lost us everything. I'm not going to let that happen again." Then in the end note from Brandon, he says that the story of Kelsier is far from over. As we know, Kelsier somehow returned to the Physical Realm (likely something to do with the spike in his eye), and then traveled to the South to help the people there with medallions that were presumably invented by himself and Spook. After spreading their new technology, Kelsier disappears. Now lets consider what Kelsier learned in The Secret History. He knows now that there are other worlds, 16 Shards, traveling between those worlds is possible, and that Hoid is up to no good. He is also immortal, and has the means to share that immortality with others, such as Spook and more importantly Demoux, a known 17th Shard member. Along with immortality, he could share the powers necessary to travel between worlds. We know that Kelsier has no intention of dying the "final death", and that he continues to meddle in cosmere events. We also know that the way he works is by gathering a "crew" of capable people to work with, and we can assume that he wouldn't be against working with people not from Scadrial. We know that Kelsier has an inflated sense of self-importance (which would explain the crew's presumptuous name). And we know that Kelsier thinks Hoid is a negative force on the cosmere (which gives a motive for the 17th Shard to hunt Hoid). Also, Kelsier having met Nazh gives a reason for Hoid to call them "your friends of the 17th Shard". Now that its all written down, it does admittedly seem a little flimsy. But thoughts? P.S. Half the credit for this goes to the user Rosharan Edited February 20, 2016 by PadraicSeebrr 8
Fuzzywuzzy Posted February 20, 2016 Posted February 20, 2016 I like this idea. The question I have is. 300 years after hoids and kelsiers fight in the well. Why would hoid give wax the copper mind coin to reveal that the survivor survived? Think there is a chance hoid and kelsier made up? And are helping eachother out? 3
Rosharan he/him Posted February 20, 2016 Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) Or kelsier doesn't want that revealed and it's Hoid attempting a small retaliation against the man chasing him. Edited February 20, 2016 by Rosharan 4
PallonianFire he/him Posted February 20, 2016 Posted February 20, 2016 So from what I'm gathering from the topic, you think Kelsier is the recipient of the Letter? I'm pretty sure that he's not a dragon. Unless you just mean that Kell is working FOR the 17th, but I don't see him willingly working underneath someone.
VirtuousTraveller Posted February 20, 2016 Posted February 20, 2016 I could definitely see Kelsier for the sake of a grudge hunting Hoid down, especially if he's seen by more than just Kelsier as a meddler in the cosmere. I like the idea of Kelsier's involvement in the greater Cosmere story extending beyond just Scadrial! 1
Young Bard he/him Posted February 20, 2016 Posted February 20, 2016 Well, the 17th Shard is around in Elantris, which is set a fair bit before Mistborn. So, unless he basically hijacks the 17th Shard for his own ends, he's not leading them. Hoid isn't working for the 17th Shard, which is why they're trying to hunt him down in WoK (in the Ishikk chapter). Also, a few names to research up on: Frost - suspected recipient of the letter, due to his non-intervention policy, and because he is a dragon (currently only been seen in Dragonsteel Prime) Khriss - suspected founder of the 17th Shard (her or Frost), and it is nearly certain she wrote the Ars Arcanums.
Rosharan he/him Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 Well, the 17th Shard is around in Elantris, which is set a fair bit before Mistborn. So, unless he basically hijacks the 17th Shard for his own ends, he's not leading them. Hoid isn't working for the 17th Shard, which is why they're trying to hunt him down in WoK (in the Ishikk chapter). Also, a few names to research up on: Frost - suspected recipient of the letter, due to his non-intervention policy, and because he is a dragon (currently only been seen in Dragonsteel Prime) Khriss - suspected founder of the 17th Shard (her or Frost), and it is nearly certain she wrote the Ars Arcanums. No need to research either of those actually I'm pretty familiar with both although I have to admit that Frost slipped my mind for some reason. He is most likely the recipient of The Letter. Khriss is also most likely the author of the Ars Arcanum, that much is clear. Her being the founder of the 17th Shard... I don't know about that. Why would she leave scadrial right after hearing that Hoid was there if she is chasing him on Roshar?(Same with Frost, if he has a non-intervention policy then why would an organization he founded chase after Hoid?) And how do we know that the 17th Shard was around during the events of Elantris? And I also agree that Hoid isn't working for the 17th Shard. 1
Patar he/him Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 Shouldn't this be moved the the Secret History thread? This contains some pretty major spoilers for Secret History.
Rosharan he/him Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 Shouldn't this be moved the the Secret History thread? This contains some pretty major spoilers for Secret History. Well this is a theory about the head of the 17th Shard more than anything else so I think Cosmere Theories is an appropriate place for it.
Patar he/him Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) Well this is a theory about the head of the 17th Shard more than anything else so I think Cosmere Theories is an appropriate place for it. The first post in the thread details exactly what happens at the end of Secret History. No matter what is being discussed, I think that any thread containing spoilers of events that happen in Secret History should be moved to the Secret History Board. Edited February 22, 2016 by Patar365
Rosharan he/him Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 The first post in the thread details exactly what happens at the end of Secret History. Not matter what is being discussed, I think that any thread containing spoilers of events that happen in Secret History should be moved to the Secret History Board. I would agree with you if the book wasn't released almost a month ago but oh well, I guess that's up to the guy that submitted it.
Patar he/him Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 Apologies, I just reviewed the spoiler policy and it stated that after February 9th, Secret History would be allowed to be discussed in other forums. Still though, I think it would be nice if the creator of the thread used the spoiler tags to make sure anybody who hadn't yet read the book didn't accidentally spoil themselves.
Rosharan he/him Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 Apologies, I just reviewed the spoiler policy and it stated that after February 9th, Secret History would be allowed to be discussed in other forums. Still though, I think it would be nice if the creator of the thread used the spoiler tags to make sure anybody who hadn't yet read the book didn't accidentally spoil themselves. Well there is a "WARNING" in the description of Cosmere Theories but you're not wrong.
natc Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 A spoiler warning in the title itself should probably be necessary. This does belong here though.
Ari he/him Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 Apologies, I just reviewed the spoiler policy and it stated that after February 9th, Secret History would be allowed to be discussed in other forums. Still though, I think it would be nice if the creator of the thread used the spoiler tags to make sure anybody who hadn't yet read the book didn't accidentally spoil themselves. Yeah you should assume unless it's really close to the release of something that Cosmere Theories contains unmarked spoilers for all things Cosmere. I'd generally give this forum a miss until you're up to date on everything. Also, I think if you're spoiler tagging threads for SH you should probably be very careful what you imply about Kelsier's status in thread titles, although this one is probably alright because we did already know pre-SH that Kelsier was a Cognitive Shadow. We don't really know enough IMO about the Cosmere 17th Shard to really say that Kelsier would have an affinity for them, although it might actually be a good sign that Hoid doesn't get along with them. (Did we actually see them in Elantris btw? Is that a new edition thing? The UK e-book doesn't have the new edition so I haven't read it yet) We've already covered that The Letter is confirmed as being written to Frost, a dragon, so Kelsier can't be the recipient, not that this precludes Kelsier being involved with the 17th Shard though. 1
Rosharan he/him Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 Yeah you should assume unless it's really close to the release of something that Cosmere Theories contains unmarked spoilers for all things Cosmere. I'd generally give this forum a miss until you're up to date on everything. Also, I think if you're spoiler tagging threads for SH you should probably be very careful what you imply about Kelsier's status in thread titles, although this one is probably alright because we did already know pre-SH that Kelsier was a Cognitive Shadow. We don't really know enough IMO about the Cosmere 17th Shard to really say that Kelsier would have an affinity for them, although it might actually be a good sign that Hoid doesn't get along with them. (Did we actually see them in Elantris btw? Is that a new edition thing? The UK e-book doesn't have the new edition so I haven't read it yet) We've already covered that The Letter is confirmed as being written to Frost, a dragon, so Kelsier can't be the recipient, not that this precludes Kelsier being involved with the 17th Shard though. Yeah, Frost is most likely the guy Hoid is writing to. And I don't think the 17th Shard showed up anytime during the events of Elantris. I don't know why The Young Bard thinks that but I could be wrong. There isn't anything in the coppermind about it but I also haven't read Elantris in good while. 1
The Invested Beard Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 I think the Elantris thing is referring to the fact that Galladon is from the Elantris time period of Sel and is a member of the 17th Shard.
Rosharan he/him Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 I think the Elantris thing is referring to the fact that Galladon is from the Elantris time period of Sel and is a member of the 17th Shard. That's what I thought but the events of Roshar(described in the stormlight archive thus far) happened long after the events of the first mistborn trilogy. Elantrians live much longer than humans as well, not sure how long. It's entirely possible that Kelsier(possible head of the 17th Shard) recruited Galladon after the events of Secret History. Which means the 17th Shard could've been formed after the events of Elantris. 1
Bugsy he/him Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Out of curiosity, how would one receive access to Dragonsteel Prime? I've heard a few theories mention it, and it would be awesome if someone could point me in the right direction
PallonianFire he/him Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 It's only available at the BYU library, from what I understand, and there's about a four-year waitlist for it. There are a couple pretty good reviews/synopses floating around the internet, though.
Lilamal he/him Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Put that stuff in spoilers, PadraicSeebrr! 2
PadraicSeebrr Posted February 28, 2016 Author Posted February 28, 2016 We don't really know enough IMO about the Cosmere 17th Shard to really say that Kelsier would have an affinity for them, although it might actually be a good sign that Hoid doesn't get along with them. (Did we actually see them in Elantris btw? Is that a new edition thing? The UK e-book doesn't have the new edition so I haven't read it yet) We've already covered that The Letter is confirmed as being written to Frost, a dragon, so Kelsier can't be the recipient, not that this precludes Kelsier being involved with the 17th Shard though. Yeah sorry might not have been clear, I meant that the recipient of the letter was Nazh, and that gave Hoid a reason to say "your friends of the 17th Shard." Since Nazh met Kelsier. But since its confirmed that the letter was to Frost, I guess that goes out the window for now. I like this idea. The question I have is. 300 years after hoids and kelsiers fight in the well. Why would hoid give wax the copper mind coin to reveal that the survivor survived? Think there is a chance hoid and kelsier made up? And are helping eachother out? From the way Kelsier reacted to Hoid at the well, and thought of him as a danger to Vin later on in SH, I doubt that they would reconcile their differences. The only reason I could see Hoid giving Wax that coin would be to create chaos for Kelsier in some way. I don't see Wax telling anybody that the Survivor went on to the south. But it would definitely influence his interactions with Harmony at the least. Until we see the reaction that the information causes I don't think we can know for certain. 1
Voidus Posted February 28, 2016 Posted February 28, 2016 Put that stuff in spoilers, PadraicSeebrr! I did move this topic for a while so I could check but SH spoilers can be discussed in cosmere theories now, though I'd recommend trying to tag topics still where possible. 1
imriel452 Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 What if Khriss and Frost are the ones in contact? Hoid suggests that the 17th Shard are Frost's friends, and if anyone in the known Cosmere would befriend a dragon, it would be our dear Khrissala. As for known members, we do not know when Galladon, Baon and Demoux were recruited into the organisation...
PallonianFire he/him Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 What if Khriss and Frost are the ones in contact? Piecing together various WoBs indicates that Khriss is a member of the Seventeenth, so I'd imagine she's in contact with Frost, somehow. But her comment about Yolen being hidden is problematic, especially since there's apparently also WoB that Frost is not a worldhopper.
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