Senor Feesh Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 So, I'm getting on with my Shadows for Silence re-read. Nothing in particular to shout about (and I might be being over-careful with spoilers, but I'd rather be over-careful than under-careful). Anyway, I noticed that the Shades are "blinded and disoriented" by fire. Considering that Shades are considered to be Cognitive Shadows (is that confirmed, btw? I can't remember now) and we know that Kelsier saw metal as a blinding light when in the Cognitive Realm (much like those holding Preservation do) it did make me wonder. What's up with Fire? Why are Shades blinded by it? Is fire somehow keyed on Investiture on Threnody? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wubdor he/him Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 I really like this idea. I've not heard someone mention this before. But it has to tie in that creating fire does draw them. That raises the question why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
menacekop Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 So are shades on Threnody cognitive shadows that exist in the physical realm? If so do we have any idea how they got into the physical realm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Invested Beard Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 So are shades on Threnody cognitive shadows that exist in the physical realm? If so do we have any idea how they got into the physical realm? We have nothing really concrete on this as of yet, but it's assumed their presence in the physical has something to do with whatever "The Evil" was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor Feesh Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Ok, I found out we do have confirmation that Shades are Cognitive Shadows. Also has some extra relevance with Seons, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
menacekop Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Ok, I found out we do have confirmation that Shades are Cognitive Shadows. Also has some extra relevance with Seons, apparently. Hmmm, what that person asks about cognitive shadows going to the forest of hell does he mean going to the cognitive realm side of the Forest of Hell or the Physical side? Im curious to know if Shades in the forest are cognitive shadows that have some how made it to the physical realm or does something about the cognitive realm at the forest cause cognitive shadows to "bleed" through to the physical realm from the cognitive. I hope all that made sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor Feesh Posted February 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 Ok, so additional SH related things meaning I'm posting here rather than the short-stories board. Silence's grandmother's Shade. She doesn't attack Silence, and never has. Suggests she's able to retain some sense of self, or at least a degree of control. Was her grandmother able to get some additional measure of Investiture either before or after death? We've seen with Kelsier in SH that Invested individuals with a higher amount of Investiture last longer before moving into the Beyond. Alternatively, is this something to do with Connection? If you're very strongly Connected to an individual, that persists through death and into the Cognitive (Kelsier was able to speak with Spook, and with Vin). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidWayne he/him Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 Wild theory time!What if everyone "living" on Threnody IS in the cognitive realm?! That is what if the forests of Hell is in the Cognitive realm and everyone there is oblivious to that fact? That way when someone dies, they hang around.There are a few obstacles to overcome here (like why does threnody have day and night?) but hey I can ignore inconvenient facts to have some fun when it suits me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymyth she/her Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 Wild theory time! What if everyone "living" on Threnody IS in the cognitive realm?! That is what if the forests of Hell is in the Cognitive realm and everyone there is oblivious to that fact? That way when someone dies, they hang around. There are a few obstacles to overcome here (like why does threnody have day and night?) but hey I can ignore inconvenient facts to have some fun when it suits me. The problem there lies in the fact that...(Shadows spoilers) Only people killed by shades come back as shades. If people die normally, they move on to wherever it is they need to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 The curious thing to me is that silver can repel the Shades, not aluminum. It could be simply a case of ralkahest (or however you spell it) where they call the metal the wrong thing, but maybe not. There is no Shard on Threnody, but apparently Seons--and perhaps other Splinters--would manifest as Shades. Perhaps Threnody's magic system has initiation by death, similar to Nalthis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helwar he/him Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 The problem there lies in the fact that...(Shadows spoilers) Only people killed by shades come back as shades. If people die normally, they move on to wherever it is they need to go. But, Silence killed her grandmoder, didn't she? I might be wrong but I think there was no shadow involved in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymyth she/her Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 But, Silence killed her grandmoder, didn't she? I might be wrong but I think there was no shadow involved in that. No, her grandmother was killed by shades, distracting them long enough for Silence herself to escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helwar he/him Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 My bad then. It's just that Silence seemed so happy that her grandma wasn't around to ruin her daughter's childhood that somehow I set my mind at the "she killed her", overwritting my other memories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navi Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 So are shades on Threnody cognitive shadows that exist in the physical realm? If so do we have any idea how they got into the physical realm?I believe shades & spren are a similar thing. & Adonisolium(<butchered that) created Threnody as the cosmere graveyard. So creating fire would attract flamespren. Flamespren may manifest more aggressive in the cognitive realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari he/him Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) The curious thing to me is that silver can repel the Shades, not aluminum. It could be simply a case of ralkahest (or however you spell it) where they call the metal the wrong thing, but maybe not. There is no Shard on Threnody, but apparently Seons--and perhaps other Splinters--would manifest as Shades. Perhaps Threnody's magic system has initiation by death, similar to Nalthis. Have you read Hero of Ages? You should understand what's going on with Silver if you (re)read that carefully. Basically I would expect Aluminium would work just as well, they probably haven't ever tried it because everyone knows Silver works and/or Aluminium is not in common usage yet. The scene you want... Is where Vin is kept prisoner and talks about silver being Allomantically inert, the exact term later used to describe Aluminium. I expect there's something going on where the usual seperation between Cognitive and Physical is not complete. I think certain details (like bodies, etc...) rule out the forests actually being completely in the Cognitive, but something have allowed Cognitive Shades to link to the Physical in a very weird way if they're formed through a very specific type of magic. edit: Whoops had the wrong book. You can also read the annotations for HoA for easy confirmation. Edited February 28, 2016 by Ari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah he/him Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) Have you read Hero of Ages? You should understand what's going on with Silver if you (re)read that carefully. Basically I would expect Aluminium would work just as well, they probably haven't ever tried it because everyone knows Silver works and/or Aluminium is not in common usage yet. The scene you want... Is where Vin is kept prisoner and talks about silver being Allomantically inert, the exact term later used to describe Aluminium. I expect there's something going on where the usual seperation between Cognitive and Physical is not complete. I think certain details (like bodies, etc...) rule out the forests actually being completely in the Cognitive, but something have allowed Cognitive Shades to link to the Physical in a very weird way if they're formed through a very specific type of magic. edit: Whoops had the wrong book. You can also read the annotations for HoA for easy confirmation. Vin thinks Silver is allomatically inert (though weirdly nobody seems to think much about it in the W&W books despite its inertia making it a theoretically useful metal. Could it not just be very highly invested? We know that something invested enough appears to be inert. Inert metal shouldn't be able to harm something cognitive or invested for that reason- it shouldn't react! Being of an opposite investment however, certainly would. New WOB Spoiler as we now know that Sel and Threnody share a sun, at least, doesn't the corrupted Dor goings on making Elantrians zombies sound Rather similar to Shades hanging around? Edited February 29, 2016 by IndigoAjah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 he/him Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 I thought silver just didn't have any allomantic powers to begin with, placing it in good company with cobalt, nickel, and a host of other metals without Investiture-related powers, and that's what is meant by "Allomantically inert." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emailanimal he/him Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 New WOB Spoiler as we now know that Sel and Threnody share a sun, at least, doesn't the corrupted Dor goings on making Elantrians zombies sound Rather similar to Shades hanging around? Did I miss Brandon answering the Threnody location question affirmatively? Can you point to the source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 (edited) Did I miss Brandon answering the Threnody location question affirmatively? Can you point to the source? Here, first question. Anyway Vin thinks as Silver as useless because she has no Allomantic power by burn it, if the Silver was like Alluminium you will see Mistkiller with silver weapon, Inquisitor & Mistborn with Silver Weapon.... Every nobles will use silver jewel, ecc....It would be much valuable than Atium probably. The curious thing to me is that silver can repel the Shades, not aluminum. It could be simply a case of ralkahest (or however you spell it) where they call the metal the wrong thing, but maybe not. There is no Shard on Threnody, but apparently Seons--and perhaps other Splinters--would manifest as Shades. Perhaps Threnody's magic system has initiation by death, similar to Nalthis. There is a WoB about if burning Alluminium or use Therenody's Silver is better to cure a Shades's touch and BS said that burning Alluminium is better... Therefore problably they are really different metals Edited February 29, 2016 by Yata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Yeah, I'm pretty sure that silver is just unburnable, as opposed to aluminum, which is an Allomantic black hole. Remember, in TFE, Vin asks about whether her earring could be used against her, and he said no, due to the metal piercing her skin, not because you can't Push and Pull silver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 So Silver is probably just an explicit part of whatever phenomenon causes Shades, I would assume. Aluminum's weirdness persists everywhere to large extents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Rope he/him Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 (edited) If silver was inert in the same way as aluminum then it would be used more oftern in era 2. Edited February 29, 2016 by Fallen Rope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor Feesh Posted March 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Yeah, I'm pretty sure that silver is just unburnable, as opposed to aluminum, which is an Allomantic black hole. Remember, in TFE, Vin asks about whether her earring could be used against her, and he said no, due to the metal piercing her skin, not because you can't Push and Pull silver. Vin's earring is Bronze though, isn't it? It's a hemalurgic spike anyway; definitely one of the sixteen base metals (and one of the ten known in TFE). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah he/him Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Vin's earring is definitely bronze, it kind of has to be too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Vin's earring has a "silver cover" but the spike itself it was made by the right Hemalurgic Metal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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