[Secret History Spoilers] Nefarious exports/imports

[ParadoxicalZen]

Did anyone else think or get the impression that the smugglers that used the pits of hathsin perpendicularity were perhaps the Ghostbloods?

[Voidus]

Did anyone else think or get the impression that the smugglers that used the pits of hathsin perpendicularity were perhaps the Ghostbloods?

Timelines don't quite match up unless the Ghostbloods have been around for a very long time.

[ParadoxicalZen]

Mmm, that's true. They appear to consist of different Shardworlds so perhaps a precursor to their organisation maybe

[The Invested Beard]

The Cosmere equivalent of Walmart survived the shattering and has set up sweat shops on all planets in the system.

[dyring]

Cant help but wonder just how incompetent the guards/obligators at the pits were if there was constant travelers going in and out through that hole. Unless they had a deal with the lord ruler somehow, but that dont quite seem likely?

[Mestiv]

Cant help but wonder just how incompetent the guards/obligators at the pits were if there was constant travelers going in and out through that hole. Unless they had a deal with the lord ruler somehow, but that dont quite seem likely?

I dont think guard or obligators had any chances to spot or stop HHoid, Khriss or other worldhoppers. If you know enough to know how to wworldhop you most likely know other tricks too

[dyring]

Bronze would be a problem for even them. They may not be able to catch them, but obligators recruited bronzemisting specifically and they would sense useage of investiture, even if its from another world. Not all worldhoppers could be as strong as hoid either if ít was an actual economy.

 

Also, wonder if they could use powers down in the pits. Would for example, hoids lightweaving destroye the geodes like allomancy would.

 

If you were a worldhopper with bad luck you might pop out right when TLR was visiting there aswell. And he´d be bad news for alot of them.

[Pathfinder]

Bronze would be a problem for even them. They may not be able to catch them, but obligators recruited bronzemisting specifically and they would sense useage of investiture, even if its from another world. Not all worldhoppers could be as strong as hoid either if ít was an actual economy.

 

Also, wonder if they could use powers down in the pits. Would for example, hoids lightweaving destroye the geodes like allomancy would.

 

If you were a worldhopper with bad luck you might pop out right when TLR was visiting there aswell. And he´d be bad news for alot of them.

I was given the impression that using Bronze to sense any investiture took some practice or knowledge. Otherwise why would a bronze misting need so much training to be able to sense when a feruchemist taps his abilities?

[dyring]

TLR hunts feruchemists, and he atleast knew that feruchemy could be sensed by bronze. He will have trained his inquisitors, and likely mistings to do so.

 

The inquisitors can even practice on one another since they got hemalurgical feruchemy, so thats not a prob. Might be worth a question at some point I guess, but while they perhaps wont be able to sense what it is exactely, sensing that somehting

happends shouldnt be impossible.

 

And once you know how to sense one other type of investiture other than allomancy, it it not logical that sensing a third should be that hard.

 

And since its a prison, there is no way the worldhoppers can get out of there without using investiture(unless they got a deal with TLR wich seems unlikely(not impossible, but unlikely)

Edited February 3, 2016 by dyring

[Pathfinder]

TLR hunts feruchemists, and he atleast knew that feruchemy could be sensed by bronze. He will have trained his inquisitors, and likely mistings to do so.

 

The inquisitors can even practice on one another since they got hemalurgical feruchemy, so thats not a prob. Might be worth a question at some point I guess, but while they perhaps wont be able to sense what it is exactely, sensing that somehting

happends shouldnt be impossible.

 

And once you know how to sense one other type of investiture other than allomancy, it it not logical that sensing a third should be that hard.

 

And since its a prison, there is no way the worldhoppers can get out of there without using investiture(unless they got a deal with TLR wich seems unlikely(not impossible, but unlikely)

And yet Sazed ran around all through the first mistborn book using feruchemy regularly without any of the inquisitors chasing after him. Vin and Kelsier got away with it, because they wore mistcloaks and were assumed to be mistborn assassins in the employ of the nobles. There is an actual WoB saying it is difficult to sense a feruchemist tapping via bronze seeking, and that it takes a lot of training to accomplish that. The Lord Ruler used genetics to breed out feruchemists, and he failed as the Synod existed. In fact, if inquisitors could sense feruchemy, then why didn't they spot Twindyl while they used her as a breeder? By that same extension of logic, if it is difficult and takes effort to use bronze to sense feruchemy, which is from the same shards as bronze, then why would it be easy to sense other investiture from an entirely different shard once you learned how to notice feruchemy?

[dyring]

Well they can obviously only sense it when its being used(just as you cant sense an allomancer when hes not burning), and Twindyl obviously didnt while being used as a breeder, or atleast not on the rare occasions when an inquisitor may ahve been near.Given how important that was, they wouldent risk it.

 

Hammond didnt get chased, he ran around using Pewter "all the time"

Same with breeze, who had an entire crew of soothers/rioters who didnt get caught.

 

None of them used it constantly, all likely tried to be somewhat careful about where they used it. Alof of people did get caught thou. Likely, some feruchemists did too, since inquisitors had spikes(even with the dump them in blood some get lost in the time between, they gotto be replaced occasionally.)

 

Also, Luthadel have investiture all around, lots of legal burning going on.

 

The pits? a single pulse should be very noticeable.

 

Mind you, Im not saying everyone should be caught. Just that if there was frequent coming and going for a thousand years, then at some point TLR would find out, a tiny chance for sufficently many times becomes almost certainty.

Edited February 3, 2016 by dyring

[Pathfinder]

Well they can obviously only sense it when its being used(just as you cant sense an allomancer when hes not burning), and Twindyl obviously didnt while being used as a breeder, or atleast not on the rare occasions when an inquisitor may ahve been near.Given how important that was, they wouldent risk it.

 

Hammond didnt get chased, he ran around using Pewter "all the time"

Same with breeze, who had an entire crew of soothers/rioters who didnt get caught.

 

None of them used it constantly, all likely tried to be somewhat careful about where they used it. Alof of people did get caught thou. Likely, some feruchemists did too, since inquisitors had spikes(even with the dump them in blood some get lost in the time between, they gotto be replaced occasionally.)

 

Also, Luthadel have investiture all around, lots of legal burning going on.

 

The pits? a single pulse should be very noticeable.

 

Mind you, Im not saying everyone should be caught. Just that if there was frequent coming and going for a thousand years, then at some point TLR would find out, a tiny chance for sufficently many times becomes almost certainty.

Sazed ran all the way to Kredik Shaw itself, hit an Inquisitor, picked up Vin and ran off with her yet inquisitors did not follow and track him down while he used speed and strength.

 

The point regarding Twindyl I will concede.

 

Hammond was well known by the guards, and they knew he was a pewter misting. Pewter also burns very quickly. For him to burn it constantly like you say, he would have been downing vials constantly, and become a savant. There are a few scenes where the temperature is mentioned, and commented on his short sleeves due to his pewter, but all those scenes are either outside the city, or after the lord ruler is dead. 

 

Breeze and his crew of soothers/rioters were hidden far away from kredik shaw and the inquisitors. The speeches were also rare, spaced out, and moved constantly. As I said above, Sazed went all the way to Kredik Shaw, and used his abilities while around there,and yet was not found/grabbed due to it.

[ParadoxicalZen]

You're all forgetting; using any kind of allomancy near the pits shatters the geodes a la Kelsier. A better question would be to ask if any other form of using magic near them would produce the same effect and exactly what was being smuggled out

[natc]

Maybe feruchemy gives off very weak pulses? Allomancy is always dramatic and probably pulls a good-sized current of power from Preservation, and might be immediately obvious to bronze senses, while feruchemy always has the impression of deriving power from innate investiture (much weaker power source) in relatively small trickles and rarely released at an extreme pace except by compounders.

[dyring]

Pathfinder:

 

The guards most certanly did not know Hammond was a pewtermisting, that is soomething I would like a source on. A skaa misting to be known around guards for being that.. no way.

 

When Vin is training with/watching him with the guards, he even specifies he haveto be careful to not let anyone notice.

 

And the "all the time" was just a retort to you saying Sazed used it regularily all over the place;), was why it was in quotationmarks. 

 

That Sazed wasent caught when picking win up was likely cause there was plenty pulses going around already, including feruchemy. With several inquisitors jumping around burning it already, it would be difficult finding out wich was Sazed. Combine that with the inquisitors listening after the two mistborn they were chasing and its not odd he wasent caught.

 

 

Natc:

It would seem likely it give of a pulse of a strength relative to what they pull. but yeah, its makes sense that its weaker as its internal.

 

Paradox

Actually, I wrote that in my first post. It would make it even less likely noone had ever been caught thou.

 

We never get a comment on if Feruchemy would destroy the geodes do we? Internal things may be less problematic there too.

Q then is - is there a new perpendiculary in Scadrial now... are the caves back or are there something else?

Edited February 4, 2016 by dyring

[Pathfinder]

Pathfinder:

 

The guards most certanly did not know Hammond was a pewtermisting, that is soomething I would like a source on. A skaa misting to be known around guards for being that.. no way.

 

When Vin is training with/watching him with the guards, he even specifies he haveto be careful to not let anyone notice.

 

And the "all the time" was just a retort to you saying Sazed used it regularily all over the place;), was why it was in quotationmarks. 

 

That Sazed wasent caught when picking win up was likely cause there was plenty pulses going around already, including feruchemy. With several inquisitors jumping around burning it already, it would be difficult finding out wich was Sazed. Combine that with the inquisitors listening after the two mistborn they were chasing and its not odd he wasent caught.

 

 

Natc:

It would seem likely it give of a pulse of a strength relative to what they pull. but yeah, its makes sense that its weaker as its internal.

 

Paradox

Actually, I wrote that in my first post. It would make it even less likely noone had ever been caught thou.

 

We never get a comment on if Feruchemy would destroy the geodes do we? Internal things may be less problematic there too.

Q then is - is there a new perpendiculary in Scadrial now... are the caves back or are there something else?

Regarding the guards knowing Ham was a misting, I concede you are correct, I located the passage and it is as you say.

 

Regarding the all the time, in searching for the above scene, i came across numerous situations where Ham and Breeze were being smoked. 

 

Now regarding Sazed, that is incorrect, and I shall provide page numbers for reference. This is for a Kindle edition, so you may have to flip a few pages to find them exactly if you do not have one. 

 

First: page 217 "She Pulled herself toward another spire, caught it weakly, then immediately Pushed off again. The Inquisitor followed, thuds sounding as he jumped from spire to spire behind her. He found me. He couldn't see me, hear me, or sense me. But he found me."

 

That clearly shows the inquisitor is finding her by burning bronze. 

 

Second: page 217 "It was growing dark again...no, it was just her mind. her vision grew dark, her eyes closing. Her wound didn't hurt anymore. She couldn't....even....think.....  A sound, like shattering branches. Then arms gripped her. Warm arms, not the arms of death."

 

By this point Vin losing consciousness, and just about out of pewter, so would not be giving off pulses, or if at all would be very weak (this is confirmed later, which I will quote). Meanwhile Sazed using strength to take out an inquisitor does not alert it of Sazed's presence. Kelsier and the other two inquisitors are elsewhere so no interfering pulses from them. 

 

Third: page 221 Sazed says "Master Hammond, I require some pewter. Her supply is exhausted, I think"

 

The original supply being gone is confirmed shortly after

 

Fourth: page 221 "accepted a vial from Hammond, then bent down and pours the liquid down the unconscious girl's throat. The room fell silent, the sound of pounding rain coming through the still open door. Vin's face flushed slightly with color, and her breathing seemed to steady. To Kelsier's Allomantic bronze senses, she began to pulse softly with a rhythm not unlike a second heartbeat"

 

So Sazed used an entire steel metal mind to run back to Luthadel. He then used additional speed and strength to hit an inquisitor, which the inquisitor did not sense him using, and then fled with Vin using it. If it was as easy for inquisitors to track feruchemy as it is to track allomancy, then the inquisitor who was actively burning bronze, would have known Sazed was coming before he was hit.