[Secret History Spoilers] the ire...

[Sirscott13 he/him]

So I think it's safe to assume the group was made up of Elantrians.

My question is how they were able to bring what seemed a section of the city of Elantris with them. It also seemed that this was before the events of the Elantris book, or very far after.

How did they make their magic work? And we're they purely in the cognitive realm? It seems like all world hoppers are in the cognitive realm and living on the inverted bodies of water made land.

They seemed to need glowing liquid to survive. Was this a magic potion? Or even maybe liquid investiture from a shardpool?

Lets hear your thoughts...

PS- did anyone else notice that the allomancy symbols from the headings of the "Parts" we're new? I wonder what those were....

Edited January 28, 2016 by Sirscott13

[Orlion Blight he/him]

I believe that Mistborn takes place hundreds of years after Elantris, though not thousands. So it might be safe to say that these Elantrians come after the events of Elantris.

 

Of course, they are also all bald as well, which is strange and seems to imply they might be pre-Reod Elantrians that may have to drink Investure to keep the madness at bay. One reason to think this (soft and speculative though the reason may be) is that Gallardon does not have the same appearance as these Elantrians do in the Way of Kings.

 

I think it is safe to say that they found out that Preservation was dying a long time ago, and that the fortress was built there for the purpose of keeping an eye on it so that they could rush in and grab the Shard and take it back to Sel for whatever reason (I imagine the reason evolved from something to do with fixing the madness that is Selian magic to fixing the madness that was the Reod).

 

Another reason to believe that these are Elantrians that suffered from the Reod is that they are refered to as being "dead but not dead". This makes me suspect that not only were they Elantrians that lived through the Reod, but that they've been away for a very long time since they have not recovered from it.

[DSC01 he/him]

The description sounds like plain old Elantrians, though, except really old, which should be impossible. It could be the result of them maintaining themselves with that liquid while they're away from Elantris. Personally, I think that they're very old indeed and became Elantrians--or whatever they were called at the time--before Devotion and Dominion were splintered.

[Orlion Blight he/him]

At that point, though, we are dealing with Elantrians that are thousands of years old... assuming there were Elantrians before Devotion and Dominion were shattered. (since I'm under the impression that the Aonic migration occurred after the Splintering. Sure, the city was there before hand, but we seem to have no indication of pre-Aonic Elantrians ever existing or still existing).

 

And, the use of "Merciful Domi" also implies a much more recent Elantrian since Shu-Koreth was established in Arelon after we have the Aonic Elantrians.

[Sirscott13 he/him]

Ok nice reasoning Orlion. After book Elantris

Ok I just was looking through ars ancarnums and I found something out!

The metallic symbol on part 5 "IRE" is a metallic variant on the aon "ire" found in the Elantris ars ancarnum and means time/age (Diren).

None of the other metallic symbols from the headers match any aons though...

[DSC01 he/him]

Yeah, they would be thousands of years old. In my thinking, they aren't exactly Elantrians; they're whatever existed waaaaay back, before Rayse's catastrophic visit.

The main reason for my idea is one them exclaiming, "Devotion save us!" or something along those lines. That expression did not exist in Elantris, nor did anyone at that time know anything about the Shards. The expression seems most likely to develop in a culture where they knew about their Shards, and the Vessels were still alive.

Edited January 28, 2016 by DSC01

[Sirscott13 he/him]

Ok part 1 "Empire" is the steel alphabet letter/symbol for melatium (aka 11th metal)

Part 2 "well" unknown

Part 3 "spirit" is the steel alphabet letter/symbol for Lerasium

Part 4 "journey" is the steel alphabet letter/symbol for atium

Part 5 "ire" is the steel alphabet letter/symbol for the stylized Aon IRE

Part 6 "hero" unknown

[Orlion Blight he/him]

Part 6 is for Harmony, I believe.

 

Edit to add the supporting post from this very Shard!

 

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/51915-does-anyone-have-the-symbol-for-harmony/?p=381214

Edited January 28, 2016 by Lying Orlion

[Kelsier's Boxing Glove]

What's up with their soldiers protecting Threnody "border" (which is apparently very far away) to prevent them from entering "main stage"? Are Elantrians blockading Threnodians, is there an interplanetary conflict? Who else is on this main stage aside from Elantrians?

[Windrunner he/him]

The part two symbol is the symbol for Kredik Shaw, I believe.

[DSC01 he/him]

So it is:

 

http://coppermind.net/w/images/Luthadel.png

[Sirscott13 he/him]

Awesome! Completed that list. I wonder if the steel language version of "ire" is the "hacking" Brandon talked about to make Elantrians Magic work on another planet

[WeiryWriter he/him]

The part 5 symbol is one of my favorite minor things in the book.  It took be a second to realize what it was but when I did I freaked out over how cool it was.

 

Edit: I sincerely doubt the stylized version is the hack, there's no intrinsic power to the Steel alphabet characters.  I get the impression the hacking is a much more involved project.

[DSC01 he/him]

I sincerely doubt the stylized version is the hack, there's no intrinsic power to the Steel alphabet characters.  I get the impression the hacking is a much more involved project.

 

That's probably true, but the Steel Alphabet version of the Aon could still be part of the hack. The alphabet may not have any intrinsic power, but it would have Connection to Scadrial. I'm sure that they would need that, if they were to hack the system such that they could channel Preservation and/or Ruin's power through Aons. Honestly, though, I don't think that's what the Steel Aon is, here. I think it's just an artistic thing.

[Sirscott13 he/him]

Maybe maybe not. Let's look at this realmatically:

Do aons have power because of the shape of the land? Or because of the spiritual connection the people have with the land?

The steel alphabet has a very strong connection to the people, and then land of Scadrial is pretty fluid in shape though out the books.

[Ari he/him]

I had thought from what Khriss said about them that they were the I.R.E., rather than Ire, but that makes sense. I was wondering what other Aons they had paired with Rao to make that acronym.

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

I had thought from what Khriss said about them that they were the I.R.E., rather than Ire, but that makes sense. I was wondering what other Aons they had paired with Rao to make that acronym.

Hmm, interesting thought. Perhaps we should check the aon alphabet, it might spell a series of words similar to Skyrim's Dragon shouts

[DSC01 he/him]

The symbol for Part Five is the aon ire, in the style of the Steel Alphabet. And ire means time or age, so I think the best translation for the name of the group is the Ancients, or something along those lines. That makes more sense than an acronym.

[RShara she/her]

I theorize that they are Elantrians that went through the shardpool above Elantris.  They thought they were getting peace and rest, but instead, got transported to the Cognitive Realm.

[TwelfthOfSnackTime he/him]

They obviously haven't just been camped out there for hundreds or thousands of years.

1) They have regular soldier body guards. Presumably they still age/eat/need supplies in the Cognitive realm.

2) The Invested Drink would need refills. I'm guessing that it is from Sel itself. We have had confirmation that the potions used to fake the Reod are another form of Selish magic. Therefore the Elantrians can keep full of Dorish Investiture to survive.

3) They use a Rosharan Fabrial/ have gems presumably from Roshar.

 

Personally I'm more curious about the Threnody group. Does the way they keep an eye out for Shades mean that someone/thing is controlling the Shades and sending them out as agents in the Cosmere? Is this the Evil that Silences people ran from? 

[Zmann966 he/him]

Shades are Cognitive Shadows right?
(As is Kelsier during Secret History, hence the mix-up at the fortress)

Especially with the reveal in Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell:

That it's Silence's relative's Shade she keeps locked up in the closet

Makes me think along the lines that Thenody's Shades are the whole cosmere's cognitive shadows. Anyone and everyone who doesn't move on to the Beyond, is/becomes a cognitive shadow... And the Ire seem to not only have some sort of conflict with Threnody, but also immediately assume that any cognitive shadow they see is from Threnody.

Taking into account the name of the planet, and a few other hints we get... I'm thinking Threnody is the cosmere's graveyard, (or graveyard stop-over for those who won't move on.)


Perhaps the makeup of Threnody pulls at the cognitive realm, like a drain pulled in a bathtub. Something about its Connection, shape, or something draws cognitive shadows to it, those that can't move to the Beyond drift to Threnody and become Shades.

[dyring]

A few things spring to mind.

 

I seem to recall elantrians are close to immortal, agewise atleast, if the work on it(Galladons father died, but I seem to recall its mentioned that was only cause he refused to fix it, yeah?)

 

So while Kelsier´s visit to the IRE are hundreds of years(but less then a thousand) after the reod, its still quite possible that the IRE are pre-reod who havent been in elantris. There are other problems with it, but its possible, especially as Khriss mentions the IRE have been about the cosmere longer then she or Nazh, and white sands are supposedly almsot as early as Elantris in the timeline. That hints the IRE have been there for long.

 

Was mentioned elsewhere that Sel might be the badguys in the cosmere later, a point there would be that even if the IRE are post-reod, there is no real reason to think that they represent a majority of elantrians. There are alot of them.

 

Also.. Ruin is aware of the IRE. That is a (far from conclusive admittedly) hint that the IRE may have been there since before Ruin was trapped. thats atleast 2000 years. That would mean pre-reod for sure. (1000 years since TLR used the well, one thousand before that seems likely to be when ruin was trapped, dont know if we know this for sure) 

 

More points, but me dog want me to take him out so thats it for now;)

Edited January 29, 2016 by dyring

[Moogle]

I seem to recall elantrians are close to immortal, agewise atleast, if the work on it(Galladons father died, but I seem to recall its mentioned that was only cause he refused to fix it, yeah?)

 

Elantrians are ageless, but it is "taxing":

Q: Something about whether Elantrians are immortal or long-lived (difficult to make out)

A: [verbatim] Elantrians have no physical limitations on their lifespan. The power will sustain them, but it's emotionally and mentally exhausting to be an elantrian, so as far as immortality goes it's actually harder to be an elantrian than other forms of immortality that exist in the cosmere"

(source)

[dyring]

Wonder if the power that lets them not age also diminishes with distance from Elantris, perhaps requiring a glowing jar with investiture as replacement.

[Pagerunner he/him]

So, the Ire drink their liquid regularly, and they also can use a sphere full of it to gain Connection to Preservation to take up the Shard. This makes me think of how Allik's translation medallion worked - a bunch of blank Connection, latching on to whatever is closest. What if the liquid in the glowing orb isn't Investiture - what if it's Connection? The orb is like Allik's medallion - full of blank Connection?

 

But then, why are the Ire drinking it? Maybe it's not quite the same - not blank Connection, but liquified Connection to Sel. That let's them stay as Elantrians, even when they're in Scadrial's portion of the Cognitive Realm.