Elhokar's Secret

[Iarwainiel I]

Train of thought:

• We see what "Darkness" is doing with nascent Surgebinders in the Ym and Lift interludes.
• Darkness was talking to Elhokar in tWoK Prologue.
• Elhokar is at least seeing spren, and may be in the process of bonding one.
• Szeth has a new "master" at the end of WoR.

Upshot: Elhokar might now have real reason to fear the Assassin in White.

[Pathfinder]

Could he be a willshaper with his own sort of spren? It has been stated they are random and love adventure. Him going headfirst at a chasmfield could count lol. 

[DSC01]

Shallan bonded her spren before she had her secret. I think they're drawn to potential, not actual lies.

[Wyndrunner]

In the end of WoR I think there is some line that mentions a Herdazian saying he needs to be added to the list of the Kings of Alethkar. 

 

Could it be that part of Elhokar's secret is that he doesn't want to be king?

 

It depends on the way he was raised but it could be the type of lie where he never told anyone because he really wanted to please his father and his family and so on. Cryptics are also related to Creativity, so perhaps Elhokar has a secret passion for art that he keeps hidden because it would be feminine.

[Aether]

Cryptics are also related to Creativity, so perhaps Elhokar has a secret passion for art that he keeps hidden because it would be feminine.

He always did strike me as somewhat effeminate (not that art is effeminate outside of Vorin traditions)

[Pathfinder]

He always did strike me as somewhat effeminate (not that art is effeminate outside of Vorin traditions)

On one hand I would say no to this, because it has been stated that the feminine and masculine arts were not always true, and there was a reason they came about, so I believe spren predate that and wouldn't us that as a defining reason. After all it hasn't been stated anywhere that any order is exclusively one gender or the other. Then again it hasn't said they aren't either. On the other hand, I agree with you because spren do change to reflect the people to a degree, so perhaps a cultural change over the centuries would affect the spren as well

[Aether]

On one hand I would say no to this, because it has been stated that the feminine and masculine arts were not always true, and there was a reason they came about, so I believe spren predate that and wouldn't us that as a defining reason. After all it hasn't been stated anywhere that any order is exclusively one gender or the other. Then again it hasn't said they aren't either. On the other hand, I agree with you because spren do change to reflect the people to a degree, so perhaps a cultural change over the centuries would affect the spren as well

I suppose it might have an effect on the Spren, but the point I was making (joke-ish though it might have been) was that Elhokar might associate art with femininity, which might be why he would find it necessary to hide it.

[Pathfinder]

Ooooooooh, gotcha, my bad lol

[Fifth of Daybreak]

I was going through WoK again, and I noticed that the first time that Shallan drew the Cryptics was when she was drawing Taravangian. Then, they're gone until she draws Kabsal, right before she soulcasts for the first time. There's a pretty large chunk of time between the two when they are absent. 

Then we have the death rattle where the subject mentions that "head of lines." 

 

We also have the quote from Syl in WoR Chapter 58 The One Who Killed Promises
"Cryptics like to plan," Syl said slowly, as if recalling something long lost. "Yes . . .I remember. They debate and watch and never do anything. But . . ."

She mentions that they watch.

 

We know that they watch the death rattles, and we know they watch King T. Elhokar might be important enough to be watched as well. I wonder if they'd be in the picture if Shallan sketched Elhokar.

[DSC01]

I was going through WoK again, and I noticed that the first time that Shallan drew the Cryptics was when she was drawing Taravangian. Then, they're gone until she draws Kabsal, right before she soulcasts for the first time. There's a pretty large chunk of time between the two when they are absent. 

Then we have the death rattle where the subject mentions that "head of lines." 

 

We also have the quote from Syl in WoR Chapter 58 The One Who Killed Promises

"Cryptics like to plan," Syl said slowly, as if recalling something long lost. "Yes . . .I remember. They debate and watch and never do anything. But . . ."

She mentions that they watch.

 

We know that they watch the death rattles, and we know they watch King T. Elhokar might be important enough to be watched as well. I wonder if they'd be in the picture if Shallan sketched Elhokar.

 

That's not the first time she attracted the Cryptics. That was the first time she noticed it again after having suppressed it from childhood. She had already bonded her spren; she just didn't remember it.

[A Joe in the Bush]

I think the Cryptics only appear in pictures drawn by, and of, Liars. That is, deep liars, of the Secret Society type.

[Aleksiel]

I think the Cryptics only appear in pictures drawn by, and of, Liars. That is, deep liars, of the Secret Society type.

 

It's too soon to generalize like this. We've only seen Crytics through Shallan and

her lies are holding her back, not helping her advance as a Radiant.

After WoR, I think the whole Crytics/lies connection might be taken the wrong way. What we've seen considered as a lie by a Cryptic is not what most people would define as lying. 

They also plan and are the lighteyes of their realm, so some heavy politics and intrigues going on for them. It makes sense to spy on important people and important people tend to hide things from the general public. So it's debatable if it's really the secrets that attract them. Plus Shallan wasn't as delusion and in denial as she is now when she first bonded with Patters, so deep secret society type of lies aren't a must.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

That's not the first time she attracted the Cryptics. That was the first time she noticed it again after having suppressed it from childhood. She had already bonded her spren; she just didn't remember it.

 

I'm not saying it was the first time she attracted the Cryptics. In fact, in that scene, I doubt they were there for her at all, she could just sense them. That was the first time she drew the Cryptics. It isn't until later when she starts trying to soulcast after having stole Jasnah's fake, that she attracts them to herself. 

[DSC01]

Maybe I don't get what you're saying, then. Wouldn't she have had the Cryptics watching her for a long time? Cryptics seem very different from, say, honorspren, and I don't see members going off on their own to bond with humans without oversight from the others. It was my impression that The Way of Kings was written to make us think that Shallan was just then beginning to draw the Cryptics, and that lent impact to the reveal of Shallan's backstory in Words of Radiance.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

Drew as in sketched. I'm hypothesizing that the Cryptic was following King T to observe, not to bond, and she was able to draw the Cryptic in the scene because of her past experiences with them. In the same way they are observing King T, the Cryptics might also be observing Elhokar, without intending to bond with him.

Edited May 1, 2014 by EMTrevor

[Aleksiel]

Drew as in sketched. I'm hypothesizing that the Cryptic was following King T to observe, not to bond, and she was able to draw the Cryptic in the scene because of her past experiences with them. In the same way they are observing King T, the Cryptics might also be observing Elhokar, without intending to bond with him.

 

I agree with you. But I also think it's curious Elhokar sees them, whereas Vargo is unaware of their presence. This makes me think Elhokar might be forming a bond with a non-Cryptic that would allow him to see other spren as well. Perhaps the moving shadows is his bonding spren. 

[DSC01]

Oh! I was reading "draw" as a synonym for "attract" and was starting to question whether you had read Words of Radiance. Now I feel dumb.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

Oh! I was reading "draw" as a synonym for "attract" and was starting to question whether you had read Words of Radiance. Now I feel dumb.

93% of communication is nonverbal. Definitely not your fault.

Edited May 2, 2014 by EMTrevor

[Meg]

Do we have confirmation that Elhokar saw Cryptics?

I personally think so because: Honorspren and Cryptics don't get along well.

And Elhokar said in WoR when he visited Kal:

 

"When you came, the shadows went away."

"The ... shadows?"

"I saw them in mirrors, in the corner of my eyes. I could swear I even heard them whispering, but you frightened them. I haven't seen them since. There's something about you. Don't try to deny it."

WoR Chapter 80 (at the end of the chapter)

This implies to me that Syl's presence (not Kaladin's) made those Cryptic disappear (or at least behave more secretively).

edit: added spoiler

Edited May 6, 2014 by Meg

[Aleksiel]

Do we have confirmation that Elhokar saw Cryptics?

I personally think so because: Honorspren and Cryptics don't get along well. And Elhokar said in WoR when he visited Kal:

 

WoR Chapter 80 (at the end of the chapter)

This implies to me that Syl's presence (not Kaladin's) made those Cryptic disappear (or at least behave more secretively).

 

It's not confirmed. The spren Elhokar sees act differently than the Cryptics around Shallan. Also, note that Elhokar is aware of the spren's presence unlike Shallan who sees Cryptics only in Memory sketches, Taravangian and Jasnah don't see the Crypstics at all. 

 

Elhokar's moving shadows are mentioned in WoR prologue and are caused by different type of spren, not Cryptics. 

Edited May 6, 2014 by Aleksiel

[Asejet]

I think its not cryptics, it could be the next spren. A new order which shares a single surge of Shallan with what Elhokar going to belong.

[Jaaxter]

I think its not cryptics, it could be the next spren. A new order which shares a single surge of Shallan with what Elhokar going to belong.

 

That would peg him as a budding Truthwatcher or Elsecaller. We already have examples of main characters in these orders in the books, making this theory somewhat less likely. Nevertheless, I heard a plausible theory that Elhokar may be under the influence or oppression of some form of Odiumspren- envyspren or inadequacyspren. As mentioned above, the behavior of the watcher seems highly ominous.

[StormAtlas]

I could be off but I am pretty sure that Pattern say at  some point ( maybe when Shallan is in the slavers wagon or on the boat) That he is the only cryptic allowed to form the bond, or something similar to that effect. Its curious that Elhokar can see them though

 

So we are probably looking at another type of spren, we know that Honor spren and wind spren look almost exactly a like so there might be some other spren out there similar in appearance. 

[maxal]

I could be off but I am pretty sure that Pattern say at  some point ( maybe when Shallan is in the slavers wagon or on the boat) That he is the only cryptic allowed to form the bond, or something similar to that effect. Its curious that Elhokar can see them though

 

So we are probably looking at another type of spren, we know that Honor spren and wind spren look almost exactly a like so there might be some other spren out there similar in appearance. 

 

Rock can see spren. Maybe the same explanation applies to Elhokar. Somehow, he can see them without actually being bound to one.

[Pathfinder]

Rock can see spren. Maybe the same explanation applies to Elhokar. Somehow, he can see them without actually being bound to one.

I am probably wrong, but I thought the first time Rock saw Syl, it was implied she let him see her cause she liked him. And bit by bit as people got closer to Kal, she started to let others see her. The main distinguishing factor about Rock was that when he saw her, he "recognized" her as something ingrained in his people's traditions/religion.