Worldhopper babies?

[lookingglass]

As there are a fair share of Worldhoppers running around the Cosmere causing trouble it can easily be assumed that a romance between individuals from different Shardwords is highly likely. So my questions is that what magic system would the children be able to use and how it affects them?

 

From what I understand, there could be 2 types of pairings: 1 Worldhopper and 1 member of the Shardworld that they are on (more likely)  and 2 world hoppers who are an on a Shardworld that isn't either of their homeplanets (less likely). 

 

Each of these pairings could lead to a complicated Spiritual DNA for the offspring so what happens to them? Can they use both magic systems on their home-planet or only on the planet that the magic system originates? If they end up being born on a different planet than their parents original planet will they be able to use that magic system (e.g. Child born on Sel from a father from Roshar and Mother from Scadrial)? If the child of 2 worldhoppers on a different shard world doesn't world hop what happens to them if they can't access the magic system?

 

So, thoughts?

[natc]

Well, there a plenty of systems that have nothing to do with your DNA at all, so . . .

[skaa]

So far the only inheritable form of Investiture we know of from published books are Allomancy, Feruchemy, some attributes taken via Hemalurgy, the body manipulation ability granted by the Divine Breath (which the Idrian royalty has somehow inherited), and whatever it is that gives Shardbearers their brightly-colored eyes. (I left out a couple of possibilities from an unpublished book.)

 

Other than those, the Worldhoppers' kid may or may not gain access to other manifestations of Investiture on the Shardworld he was born on, depending on whether he qualifies for any Initiation process. For example, he'll gain a BioChromatic Breath if he was born on Nalthis no matter who his parents are, as long as Endowment decides that he will.

[Yata]

So far the only inheritable form of Investiture we know of from published books are Allomancy, Feruchemy, some attributes taken via Hemalurgy, the body manipulation ability granted by the Divine Breath (which the Idrian royalty has somehow inherited), and whatever it is that gives Shardbearers their brightly-colored eyes. (I left out a couple of possibilities from an unpublished book.)

 

Other than those, the Worldhoppers' kid may or may not gain access to other manifestations of Investiture on the Shardworld he was born on, depending on whether he qualifies for any Initiation process. For example, he'll gain a BioChromatic Breath if he was born on Nalthis no matter who his parents are, as long as Endowment decides that he will.

I am not sure about the last part.

We don't know if Endowment has an active part in the "Breath's give-away" when a Nalthis Human born. We can have many different outcome:

- An outsider Human born on Nalthis come to this world as every other Nalthis's people. Therefore a Drab+Breath.

- An outsider Human born on Nalthis has nothing like a Breath because he has not the right sDNA to get one bit of Endowment.

- An outsider Human born on Nalthis may have or not a Breath with an Endowment's decision.

- An Nalthis Human born on another Shardworld will recive his Breath anyway because his link to Endowment is in his sDNA and the birthplace in meaningless.

This are only the outcome without any "bloodline merging" probably many strange things come to be with an Hybrid Child without any Shard (or Shardlike power) that fix the child.

We may see very peculiar WorldHopper if I am right 

[skaa]

@Yata: The Elantris Ars Arcanum states that Initiation on Nalthis depends on the Shard's decision.

Edited December 29, 2015 by skaa

[ChickenPlague]

So far the only inheritable form of Investiture we know of from published books are Allomancy, Feruchemy, some attributes taken via Hemalurgy, the body manipulation ability granted by the Divine Breath (which the Idrian royalty has somehow inherited), and whatever it is that gives Shardbearers their brightly-colored eyes. (I left out a couple of possibilities from an unpublished book.)

 

Other than those, the Worldhoppers' kid may or may not gain access to other manifestations of Investiture on the Shardworld he was born on, depending on whether he qualifies for any Initiation process. For example, he'll gain a BioChromatic Breath if he was born on Nalthis no matter who his parents are, as long as Endowment decides that he will.

Wait isn't the ability to become an Elantrian passed down in Arelish (and Teoish) people?

[Yata]

@Yata: The Elantris Ars Arcanum states that Initiation on Nalthis depends on the Shard's decision.

I didn't read the new Elantris, therefore I am wrong... Sorry 

 

But we don't know if Endowment have decision on individual level or planetary (for example if he/she/it may not give a breath to a single person or if he/she/it have to stop to give away the Breaths for the whole Nalthis' Humans).

[skaa]

Wait isn't the ability to become an Elantrian passed down in Arelish (and Teoish) people?

We're not certain of that yet. What we do know is that it depends (among other things) on having some sort of spiritual connection to Arelon, e.g. being born there:

Birth in a certain location on Sel gives a certain affinity for the local symbols, and their usage. To use the magic of another region, one would need to have a rewritten connection to that area instead.

(Source.)

Note that one's birthplace and one's ancestry may not be related, so someone who considers himself Arelish, having been born and raised on Arelon, might still be eligible for the Shaod even if his parents aren't from Sel.

Edited December 29, 2015 by skaa

[ChickenPlague]

We're not certain of that yet. What we do know is that it depends (among other things) on having some sort of spiritual connection to Arelon, e.g. being born there:

Note that one's birthplace and one's ancestry may not be related, so someone who considers himself Arelish, having been born and raised on Arelon, might still be eligible for the Shaod even if his parents aren't from Sel.

Oh okay.

[Blightsong]

@Yata: The Elantris Ars Arcanum states that Initiation on Nalthis depends on the Shard's decision.

Intiation, yes. Initial investiture, no, or erm... maybe. We only know for sure that the gift of a divine breath is given intentionally by Endowment. I think, however, that initial investiture on Nathis is hereditary, as we see the Idrian royal line has extra initial investiture.

Edit: I just remembered that only a potential heir to the throne has the royal locks. This proves Skaa's point further, although we still don't know for a fact, someone should ask Brandon. It makes sense that it would be a conscious decision from English though, she is known as Endowment. ..

Edited December 29, 2015 by Blightsong

[skaa]

Maybe, maybe not. But as we've seen Endowment being very generous with her Investiture, as well as actively creating Splinters for the Returned, I don't see why she wouldn't be able to give Nalthis-born children of Worldhoppers the gift of BioChromatic Breath. I think that's something she would be very capable of deciding.

[natc]

How much of the breath came from Endowment though?

I've been under the impression that a Drab is less invested than a non-Nalthian.

[skaa]

How much of the breath came from Endowment though?

All of it:

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

Because the Breath is... eh. How can I explain this? You are, yeah... So... So each Breath is a shade of deity, right?

KURKISTAN

Yeah.

BRANDON SANDERSON

And each Breath incorporates into it this sort of idea of being endowed by the deity Endowment, correct?

KURKISTAN

Yes.

BRANDON SANDERSON

And so each Breath you hold brings you one step closer to becoming like that

 

 

I've been under the impression that a Drab is less invested than a non-Nalthian.

*start of baseless speculation*

I agree that there is a difference between a Drab and a normal non-powered individual outside of Nalthis, but I don't think it's necessarily in their level of Investiture, but rather in the state of their spiritual aspect.

Imagine if someone managed to rip out all the Allomantic abilities from a Mistborn directly (i.e. without using Hemalurgic spikes) in a way that he survives. The ex-Mistborn would not just be as powerless as any non-powered Scadrian, he'd also have a Spiritweb with a gaping hole where the ripped-out chunk of soul had been. In a way, he'd be more damaged than a regular skaa with an fully intact soul.

I think the same thing happens to people who give away all their Breath. It doesn't matter if you're a native Nalthian or not; if Endowment Invested you with BioChroma, removing that via Breath-transfer will have consequences on your soul, and you'd become a Drab. I think this is just part of sharing in Endowment's Intent of sacrificing oneself for others.

*end of baseless speculation*

Edited December 30, 2015 by skaa

[natc]

But lifesense seems to pick up Rosharan humans and spren (who would not have vital signs, so the ability is probably not biological) perfectly fine . . . but not drabs.

That's always bothered me.

[Stormgate]

All of it:

*start of baseless speculation*

I agree that there is a difference between a Drab and a normal non-powered individual outside of Nalthis, but I don't think it's necessarily in their level of Investiture, but rather in the state of their spiritual aspect.

Imagine if someone managed to rip out all the Allomantic ability from a Mistborn directly from the Spiritual Realm (i.e. without using Hemalurgic spikes), such that he survives. The ex-Mistborn would not just be as powerless as any non-powered Scadrian, he'd also have a Spiritweb with a gaping hole where the ripped-out chunk of soul had been. In a way, he'd be more damaged than a regular skaa with an fully intact soul.

I think the same thing happens to people who give away all their Breath. It doesn't matter if you're a native Nalthian or not; if Endowment Invested you with BioChroma, removing that will have consequences on your soul, and you become a Drab. I think this is just part of sharing in Endowment's Intent of sacrificing oneself for others.

*end of baseless speculation*

Every being in the Cosmere has innate Investiture. Drabs do not have this Investiture, having given it up to someone.

[Eagle of the Forest Path]

Every being in the Cosmere has innate Investiture. Drabs do not have this Investiture, having given it up to someone.

 

Point of order: Drabs don't have enough investiture to be detected. They still possess the 'spark of life'.

 

... and whatever it is that gives Shardbearers their brightly-colored eyes.

 

I believe that is more of a side effect. I see nothing pointing to a run-of-the-mill lighteyes being more invested than any darkeyes (so far).

[Stormgate]

Point of order: Drabs don't have enough investiture to be detected. They still possess the 'spark of life'

I'll give you that, but they still don't have innate Investiture. WoB confirmed it. I'm sorry I'm no good at sourcing them.

[DreamEternal]

I'll give you that, but they still don't have innate Investiture. WoB confirmed it. I'm sorry I'm no good at sourcing them.

WoB also said it is toss up of whatever drabs or lifeless are more invested, so I'd say Brandon is too inconsistent for anything he says to be trustworthy when it comes to drabs.

I pesonaly believe nalthians are born with 50% more investiture than avarege humans, but half of their souls are their Breaths, so a drab has 75% of a normal human's investiture.

Edited December 29, 2015 by DreamEternal

[Stormgate]

If a worldhopper goes to Nalthis, they will have a non-transferable Breath. They will not be a Drab.

[Kurkistan]

Relevant:

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3941-spocon-report/

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/2745-signing-reports/#entry90139

[Yata]

If a worldhopper goes to Nalthis, they will have a non-transferable Breath. They will not be a Drab.

Simply a Nalthian have more Investiture in his soul than an average human of another Shardwhorld (without counting the Scadrial's) but some part of his Soul (Biocromatic Breath) are transferable to others.

Without this transferable part a Nalthian has less Investiture in his Soul than the average Human, using the Hemalurgy on a Human left him in a Drab-like stare (if he doesn't die).

 

A worldhopper that goes on Nalthis don't earn any ability about giving his soul, but would probably be a strange being because he has no Biocromatic Aura but it's not invisible to the lifesense.

[Moogle]

@Yata: The Elantris Ars Arcanum states that Initiation on Nalthis depends on the Shard's decision.

 

I thought that referred to becoming a Returned, which does actively require Endowment's decision. The issue is that we don't know what Initiation means, and I'm uncomfortable with the assumption that it means gaining a Breath.

 

Breath is a detachable part of your soul, and to make a soul you draw on Investiture - I see no reason for Endowment to be required to scan each and every baby and decide whether to grant their request for life. It seems like the same thing Preservation did - sacrifice a part of your power that any baby can use without your conscious assent.

 

Simply a Nalthian have more Investiture in his soul than an average human of another Shardwhorld (without counting the Scadrial's) but some part of his Soul (Biocromatic Breath) are transferable to others.

 

Nalthians have the same amount of Investiture as humans on other Shardworlds, I think. I'll edit in a WoB when/if I find it. Edit: This says I'm wrong, but there's definitely a different WoB I'm thinking of. Edit2: I am declaring defeat, one person can only read so many transcripts. Please ignore me!

 

---

 

Relevant to this thread:

 

Q: If a Scadrian allomancer had a baby with a Nalthian (and the baby was born on Nalthis), could the baby have an original Breath and also be a Natural allomancer?

 

A:  It could happen, the baby would have a bit of Preservation and a bit of Endowment.

(source)

Edited December 29, 2015 by Moogle

[Zathoth]

My impression is that a Nalthian has 1,5 Sanderkilos of investiture, while a non-Invested human (As in someone who cant use magic) has 1SK (These numbers are completely meaningless). One breath is around 1 SK, a drab has 0,5 SK.

 

Anyway a child born in Arelon from an Arelonian person and a Metalborn Scadrian could probably become a Metalborn Elantrian.

 

Going through the different Shardworlds...

Selish Investiture needs you to be born in a specific part of the world and then be initiated.

Scadrian is genetic, that would be the easiest to transfer between worlds.

Nalthian, you could give breaths to someone not from Nalthis, but you probably have to be born on Nalthis to be born with a breath.

Rosharian magic, I am under the impression that anyone could attract a spren and swear oaths.

 

I forgot where I was going with this...

[Stormgate]

My impression is that a Nalthian has 1,5 Sanderkilos of investiture, while a non-Invested human (As in someone who cant use magic) has 1SK (These numbers are completely meaningless). One breath is around 1 SK, a drab has 0,5 SK.

 

Anyway a child born in Arelon from an Arelonian person and a Metalborn Scadrian could probably become a Metalborn Elantrian.

 

Going through the different Shardworlds...

Selish Investiture needs you to be born in a specific part of the world and then be initiated.

Scadrian is genetic, that would be the easiest to transfer between worlds.

Nalthian, you could give breaths to someone not from Nalthis, but you probably have to be born on Nalthis to be born with a breath.

Rosharian magic, I am under the impression that anyone could attract a spren and swear oaths.

 

I forgot where I was going with this...

Upvote for Sanderkilos.

[Oversleep]

Anyway a child born in Arelon from an Arelonian person and a Metalborn Scadrian could probably become a Metalborn Elantrian.

 

Going through the different Shardworlds...

Selish Investiture needs you to be born in a specific part of the world and then be initiated.

Scadrian is genetic, that would be the easiest to transfer between worlds.

Nalthian, you could give breaths to someone not from Nalthis, but you probably have to be born on Nalthis to be born with a breath.

Rosharian magic, I am under the impression that anyone could attract a spren and swear oaths.

 

I forgot where I was going with this...

 

Compounding Aons! What would happen if you tried to burn metal in shape of Aon or metal with Aon carved into it?!

As for where you were going with this, I assume you were going for maximal Investiture output. So Scadrian/Selish parents, to become Mistborn Elantrian, then get some Breaths and attract a spren and become Radiant.

Both Sel and Nalthis require to be born on the planet, but since Breaths can be given away, I picked being born on Sel.