Zas678 Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 *Possible Shadows of Self Spoilers* I'm not planning on spoiling, but it's likely that the discussion will head that way. So at the Barnes and Nobles Orem signing on Saturday, Brandon was asked to write up something that we didn't know about Harmony, and he said/wrote the following: [01:04:09] Brandon: There’s another name Harmony could go by if he weren’t able to control the conflict between his halves… Have you guys figured that one out yet? Oh, I’m not going to say anything. *to Zas* You have it on recording… I was pretty sneaky with that one so I don’t know if you have it or not. Some of us there tried to think of some different things that Harmony would be called if he wasn't so controlled. Some said Chaos, others said Desolation (the Preservation of Ruin). My sister, who was there and is currently rereading Final Empire, found this in the epigraph of Chapter 8: He shall defend their ways, yet shall violate them. He will be their savior, yet they shall call him heretic. His name will be Discord, yet they shall love him for it. Now it could be talking about Vin, or Sazed pre-ascension, or it could be a Ruinated text. However, I think that this could be what Harmony would be called if Sazed wasn't so good at being in control of the two powers. What do you guys think? 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 I love it... And who's to say he IS in control? He thinks he is, sure. But maybe it's too much for him to handle and we've got a god with Multiple Personality Disorder? the WoB up there says "If he weren't able to control", it doesn't say "if he weren't able to control so well". To me that leaves room for him to say, "yes I said if he weren't able to... and he's not." SoS Spoiler- Could also be where the new metal came from and why Harmony doesn't know anything about it. Could be that Discord was in control and could see Bleeder just fine... do we have actual confirmation that Autonomy is the source of the new metal? That could just be a red herring, to release a new Shard Intent name at the same time as the book to throw us off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwelfthOfSnackTime Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 A god-like Jeckle and Hyde? I wouldn't want to be on Scadrial in the near future if that was the case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King's Twit Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) I actually recently did a post on this on Reddit. Shameless self plug https://www.reddit.com/r/Mistborn/comments/3u9xuv/spoilers_all_regarding_a_certain_prophesy/ Basically, I posited that the text could be unaltered by Ruin, and Harmony's Intent is more accurately named Discord, or has the potential to become Discord. An alternative to this I suggested was that Ruin did alter the line, and the original, which better fits the structure of the preceding lines of the prophesy, was something similar to "His name shall be Harmony, yet they shall hate him for it." I took this as a prophesy that had yet to come true, and that the people of Scadrial would come to hate Harmony. Based on your Brandon quotes, I'm now more convinced of the text being unaltered. Edited December 15, 2015 by The King's Twit 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious Anamaximder Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Cosmere Fan on this: Whoa! Harmony! MLP Fan on this: Discord! They mentioned Discord!!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymyth Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Cosmere Fan on this: Whoa! Harmony! MLP Fan on this: Discord! They mentioned Discord!!!!! But also: the Elements of Harmony! This just in: Equestria is a far, far-future Scadrial. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaeggs Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 But also: the Elements of Harmony! This just in: Equestria is a far, far-future Scadrial. *facepalm* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STINK Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) If you look at the definition of Discord on google, you get either: Disagreement between People Lack of Harmony between notes sounding together So if Sazed wasn't able to control his two aspects, and we get rid of the bit about the notes together, then it would be quite accurate about Sazed, as Preservation and Ruin naturally disagree and if he isn't Harmony then there is, well a lack of Harmony So, does anyone think we might see Discord later on? Edited December 15, 2015 by IrulelikeSTINK 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormlessFox Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Interesting. Harmony can be defined as orderly so maybe it does not have to be altruistic. Maybe Sazeds final conclusion is that there is no harmony in the cosmere and conflict is the only natural harmony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Any Shard with the intent of Discord seems to, by definition, result in its own self-destruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightGradient Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 If you look at the definition of Discord on google, you get either: Disagreement between People Lack of Harmony between notes sounding together So if Sazed wasn't able to control his two aspects, and we get rid of the bit about the notes together, then it would be quite accurate about Sazed, as Preservation and Ruin naturally disagree and if he isn't Harmony then there is, well a lack of Harmony So, does anyone think we might see Discord later on? I just want to say nice find. Really, that made my day. I think Discord is Harmony's opposite Shard, after seeing a post about how to make Harmony's opposite. Right now, Harmony is made of two opposite Shards, and exaggerating their 'best' characteristics. Discord would simply display different characteristics from the Shards. Harmony is trying to get them to work together, Discord is trying to keep them apart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King's Twit Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Hey, combining one theory with another, what if Harmony becomes Discord by reabsorbing that missing piece of Ruin, and "they shall love him for it" because he does it to stop whatever trouble was being caused with that power? It fits with the recurring theme of Harmony making mistakes because of his lack of experience at being God. He cleaved off that extra Ruin because he believed that it would be better if the shards were balanced, but that only causes more trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haradion Drogon Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 I wonder if that is Odium's plan for neutralising Harmony. Have him act against himself...This is Great.I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhoof Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 Well if Ruin is more powerful of the two then I can easily see, perhaps over a long time, Harmony growing less harmonious and more discordant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 I actualy hope the threat of Sazed becoming Discord stays that. A threat. Because I think it is more interesting for him to become more aloof and dangerous in his quest to do good while balancing his powers. His new worldview of both Ruin and Preservation being necessary coukd make him a fascinating anti-hero, espevialy if he stays the top dog of the Cosmere. He was Discord and loved for it when a mortal. He will be Harmony as a god, an they will hate him for it. Of course, if he manages to be both Harmony and Discord at once, motivating conflict and cooperation between his Ruin and his Preservation as he sees fit to advance mankind, in a great plan to circunvent the limitations of his intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormlessFox Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 I actualy hope the threat of Sazed becoming Discord stays that. A threat. Because I think it is more interesting for him to become more aloof and dangerous in his quest to do good while balancing his powers. His new worldview of both Ruin and Preservation being necessary coukd make him a fascinating anti-hero, espevialy if he stays the top dog of the Cosmere. He was Discord and loved for it when a mortal. He will be Harmony as a god, an they will hate him for it. Of course, if he manages to be both Harmony and Discord at once, motivating conflict and cooperation between his Ruin and his Preservation as he sees fit to advance mankind, in a great plan to circunvent the limitations of his intent. Well I wonder if Sazed's newcomer status as a shardholder is important to the overall cosmere resolution. Sazed is such an interesting perspective because we have seen so much character development from him. I like having a "friend" sitting at the shardholder table it makes me feel more invested in the cosmere because Sazed is the legacy of a story I'm very attached to. Then again maybe Brandon turns that on its head and all the trust I have for Sazed will be for naught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 Well I wonder if Sazed's newcomer status as a shardholder is important to the overall cosmere resolution. Sazed is such an interesting perspective because we have seen so much character development from him. I like having a "friend" sitting at the shardholder table it makes me feel more invested in the cosmere because Sazed is the legacy of a story I'm very attached to. Then again maybe Brandon turns that on its head and all the trust I have for Sazed will be for naught. Am I the only one who noticed the pun of being invested in the Cosmere? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormlessFox Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) Am I the only one who noticed the pun of being invested in the Cosmere? damnation gloryspren around my head gave it away! edit: I cannot write d.a.m.n.? it autocorrects to damnation lol? Edited December 16, 2015 by FormlessFox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 It's a swear filter. For example, the unflattering name for a donkey turns to chull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charononus Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Well I wonder if Sazed's newcomer status as a shardholder is important to the overall cosmere resolution. Sazed is such an interesting perspective because we have seen so much character development from him. I like having a "friend" sitting at the shardholder table it makes me feel more invested in the cosmere because Sazed is the legacy of a story I'm very attached to. Then again maybe Brandon turns that on its head and all the trust I have for Sazed will be for naught. I don't trust Sazed after SoS anyways. I think discord is very apt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Harmony shouldn't be given a bad rep for this. Harmony isn't honorable, it isn't loving, it is simply maintaining a balance. Sazed could have told Wax who the person was (avoiding spoilers), but Wax was the only one who could have stopped her, and Sazed couldn't have risked him trying to solve the problem another way. Also, Sazed is still a child by Shard standards. He might not know the best way to maintain his intent yet, and probably doesn't have much experience seeing the future. Basically, Harmony doesn't mean that every story ends in a happily ever after, it means that everyone continues, everyone changes, things end, new things begin, but the world keeps spinning and keeps going. Change can come from good times, but it also comes-often more effectively-through bad times. Wax going through a hard time might clash with the kind, loving scholar we know, but he isn't the Sazed we knew anymore. He is more than Preservation, he is Harmony. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charononus Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 Harmony shouldn't be given a bad rep for this. Harmony isn't honorable, it isn't loving, it is simply maintaining a balance. Sazed could have told Wax who the person was (avoiding spoilers), but Wax was the only one who could have stopped her, and Sazed couldn't have risked him trying to solve the problem another way. Also, Sazed is still a child by Shard standards. He might not know the best way to maintain his intent yet, and probably doesn't have much experience seeing the future. Basically, Harmony doesn't mean that every story ends in a happily ever after, it means that everyone continues, everyone changes, things end, new things begin, but the world keeps spinning and keeps going. Change can come from good times, but it also comes-often more effectively-through bad times. Wax going through a hard time might clash with the kind, loving scholar we know, but he isn't the Sazed we knew anymore. He is more than Preservation, he is Harmony. I'd say he's Ruin light. He actually ruins more than he has to to preserve things. For instance we know that in any action he takes, both shards want to play a role. So he wants to stop the activities in the W&W era stories. So he sets in motion events to ruin the bad guys and preserve the society he wants. However, because of the methods he employs he ruins both Bleeder and Wax. His halves are not in harmony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 If you treat people as a statistic then two people and one organization is absolutely worth sacrificing for preserving a whole civilization's stability though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charononus Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 If you treat people as a statistic then two people and one organization is absolutely worth sacrificing for preserving a whole civilization's stability though. Which was not who Sazed was though. I don't see the original Sazed as being able to make decisions with that kind of cold calculation. I really believe that Sazed is now essentially dead. He now is his shard's intent, just as Ati was essentially dead and all that existed was ruin. Now look at the chaos all thru the story. Economic problems, crime, riots, etc. While not all of these are directly caused by Harmony, his actions have set the stage for all of them in a meaningful way. His actions speak of discord, remember that Wax puts his earing in and meditates most days. He could have directly spoken to Wax of the need for him to go home. Wax is a fairly reasonable person, and I feel pretty confident that he would have gone home if his god asked. No need for games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 I think that Sazed tries to maintain Harmony on both a grand and small scale. The grand scale requires minimal explanation. With people, we go through good times and bad, pain and joy, etc. Szed is trying to maintain this harmony by not isolating Wax to the good life. Killing/capturing criminals, running a noble House, etc. Sazed realizes that without pain, the joyful moments are much more dull, more indifferent. Perhaps the problem is not with Sazed's interpretation of Harmony. It is with ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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