50Metals he/him Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) I don't have the quotes in front of me, but Stormfather says he is the Almighty's Spren. We are pretty sure that Spren are splinters. But he is also likely the first herald, and thus a human being holding a large chunk of Honor's power. Would that make him a sliver as well, or is he still just a splinter like Endowment's Returned, who used to be men as well? Edited December 8, 2015 by 50Metals
Khyrindor he/him Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 Ah, The Almighty was never a Herald. The Rosharan people deified the Heralds, but they weren't Slivers, because they never held the Shard of Honor or had enough of his Investiture to Ascend. Their swords would be classified as splinters. The Almighty himself is a Cognitive Shadow of Tanavast, who, if he were still alive somewhere (WoB says its possible, if I remember correctly) would be a Sliver. I suppose you could call him a Splinter too, since he is likely part of Honor's Investiture like the spren. But Slivers are people like Vin and Rashek who held all of a Shard's power. 1
Moogle Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 The Stormfather is most likely not Jezrien, the Windrunner Herald. That seems like one of the things Vorinism got wrong - Jezrien is associated with the wind (and Windrunners can "ride the highstorms" and get visions), so it's an understandable mistake for them to associate Jezrien with the Stormfather. 2
50Metals he/him Posted December 8, 2015 Author Posted December 8, 2015 ^^I know The Almighty is not a herald. Sorry for the ambiguity. Jezrien is though and he might be Stormfather.
50Metals he/him Posted December 8, 2015 Author Posted December 8, 2015 I think Vornism right. I think Jezrien merged somehow with the cognitive shadow of Honor. I think he holds a splinter of honor rather than the whole shard, but the conflict between Honor's intent, vorinisms view of honor, and Jezrien's flaws drive him mad.
DreamEternal Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) I currently believe the Stormfather was originaly a splinter of Adonalsium that got "converted" by Honor*, in a more belign version of how some of Odium's Unmade can corrupt spren, and later merged with Tanavast's cognitive shadow as he died in order to receive the visions that he should send to a potential Bondsmith. I especifically believe he was a direct splinter of Adonalsium because the Listeners, who we know are not originaly of any of the shards currently on Roshar, a world that bears "the touch and design of Adonalsium", say they are of the storms, and instead of speaking of a time before the Rider of Storms believe he betrayed them for the humans**, which would fit him being turned into a spren of Honor, the so called God of Man. *The Stormfather seems to be not only the spirit of the Highstorm, but a overseer and witness of bonds between spren and physical beings, since he says(even if unwillingly) that Kaladin's Words are accepted when he fully re-forges his bond to the newly ressurected Syl by saying the third oath, and appears to Listeners before they change forms. This is also a possibke explanation for why he is the/a Bondsmith spren. **The link between the Stormfather and the Listeners also appears in how he feels sorry for being unable to stop Eshonai from bonding the voidspren, while he distrusts humans for what they did, possibly indicating regret for becoming a being of Honor. Edited December 9, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern 6
Khyrindor he/him Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 That makes a lot of sense, CognitivePulsePattern. Upvote for you.
DreamEternal Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 That makes a lot of sense, CognitivePulsePattern. Upvote for you. Thank you. Truth to be told, I didn't invent the theory, but read it long ago when I was still a lurker watching from shadows deeper than any dark alley, and linked it with things I already suspected, like the link between the Parshendi and the Stormfather. I am afraid I don't remember who was the first to come up with these conclusions
Stormgate he/him Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 It is an interesting theory, and touches on something else: What was the Cosmere like before the Shattering? What existed?
natc Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 It is an interesting theory, and touches on something else: What was the Cosmere like before the Shattering? What existed? Well, we had Yolen, and apparently Roshar. Humans, presumably Listeners if that theory checks out, Adonalsium-spren . . . dragons.
Yata he/him Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 There is a recent WoB about the Stormfather and his strangness. https://www.reddit.c...1?context=10000 Q: We know that the Stormfather is a Cognitive shadow and is also acting as a spren for Dalinar but is he able to do that because the "unusual sequence of events" took place or is there something else going on specific to the nature of the Stormfather? A: RAFO.
Alfa he/him Posted December 10, 2015 Posted December 10, 2015 In the end of WoR Stormfather proclaims himself a Sliver of Honor. Which makes not much sense for me, since all known Slivers are humans.
Eagle of the Forest Path he/him Posted December 10, 2015 Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) In the end of WoR Stormfather proclaims himself a Sliver of Honor. Which makes not much sense for me, since all known Slivers are humans. Or were humans. Kelsier was a cognitive shadow when he became a Sliver of Preservation. Slivers and splinters do seem to be mutually exclusive, though as per this (admittedly somewhat dated) WoB PUCK "How is a Splinter different from a Sliver?BRANDON SANDERSON "Let me see... You have met splinters in Elantris, Warbreaker, and in Way of Kings. You have not met them in Mistborn."PUCK"I feel like we know that. So, qualitatively, what's the difference?"BRANDON SANDERSON"Qualitatively, they're reverses of one another. A Sliver is a human intelligence who has held the power and released it. A Splinter has never been human."PUCK"But it derives from a Shard's power."BRANDON SANDERSON"Yes. That's not it completely, but there's at least something to think about." Edited December 10, 2015 by EagleOfTheForestPath
DreamEternal Posted December 10, 2015 Posted December 10, 2015 Or were humans. Kelsier was a cognitive shadow when he became a Sliver of Preservation. Slivers and splinters do seem to be mutually exclusive, though as per this (admittedly somewhat dated) WoB If I am right, the Stormfather would be both, as a splinter of Adonalsium that merged with Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow. 1
Yata he/him Posted December 10, 2015 Posted December 10, 2015 I don't know if a cognitive shadow of a Shardholder may be considerate a Sliver.
DreamEternal Posted December 10, 2015 Posted December 10, 2015 I don't know if a cognitive shadow of a Shardholder may be considerate a Sliver. Isn't Kelsier considered one? While he probably retained more of his original identity than I believe Tanavast/Stormfather did, and is more a "ghost" than a "shadow", it may still be a close enough comparison.
Yata he/him Posted December 10, 2015 Posted December 10, 2015 Isn't Kelsier considered one? While he probably retained more of his original identity than I believe Tanavast/Stormfather did, and is more a "ghost" than a "shadow", it may still be a close enough comparison. Sorry I suppose to have explained myself bad. While Kelsier and the Tanavast cognitive shadow are the same. To me there is a great difference about this two Shadows to be a Slivers. Kelsier's Shadow took Preservation for some time and then release it. This give him some residual Preservation's power and made him a Sliver. The Stormfather is the Shadow of someone who held a Shard, the Tanavast's Shadow never held the Honor's Power and to me it's not a Sliver. This is what I wanted to say. That we don't know if the Cognitive Shadow of an Ascended One is a Sliver as Heritage or not.
DreamEternal Posted December 10, 2015 Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) Well, I suppose that is true. We don't even know if the Cognitive Shadow is the person's mind itself or an "imprint" of it in the Cognitive Realm. Edited December 10, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern
AerionBFII he/him Posted December 10, 2015 Posted December 10, 2015 Ever have one of those days where you think.....Im so out of my league...? I think he's just a reflection of Tanavasts lingering intent, like a shadow given identity..maybe even a little corrupted like the Heralds..
Oversleep Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 If Tanavast would have survived Splintering of Honor and had time to bond a godspren (Sliver bonded with Splinter) and then died and his Cognitive Shadow merged with said Splinter... maybe that's what Stormfather is.Maybe he survived Splintering by holding onto said Splinter - prolonged agony, at best, but could have time for some final actions. Like his apocalyptic log for Bondsmiths.
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