New Info on Honorblades

[Pechvarry]

Guys, please cut down on the WoR chatter in the general Stormlight Archives forum.  I haven't done the Steelhunt and I'm kinda hoping to avoid reading WoR material until March.

[Gloom]

I would think this thread should be moved due to the sheer number of WOR references in it, but given the opening post, I'd also think the OP should has a place in this folder.
 
All that aside....

I think Nalan makes a good candidate for the Herald that retrieved his blade. We have no reason to believe that anyone in Azir would recognize an Honorblade as anything other than a Shardblade. Nalans comment about Jezrien at the end of the Lift interlude makes me believe Jezrien is less than fully functional physically.

[EmagSamurai]

To be honest, I've only read half the posts here because I've been trying to skip the spoilers. If the mods want to move the thread, I'm ok with that. I'll catch back up on it in March

[Rade]

I had a thought upon reading this: If 1 of the people who has an Honorblade is a monster, (Szeth quite possibly) and the other is a Herald, and Taln still has his, then the Herald who went back and took their's either turned into a monster (and if the final surge is change of appearance, possible it might be Szeth, also possible even if it isn't, Nightwatcher could have taken memory of that time.), or they gave it to someone/thing that is a monster, or to someone/thing that gave it to a monster. Btw, random thought, how come none of the people from the peaks have ever asked the Nightwatcher for a Shardblade? How come NOBODY that? Or does she just reject such asking for favors?

[ninch]

Szeth blade is short, not the 6 foot blades that most shardblades are. If his blade is a honorblade why is it short? I would think that Honorblades would also be bigger and used for the killing of voidbringers and such not for duels and killing people.

[hoser]

The following is a commonly repeated canard and is contradicted by the text. 

Szeth blade is short, not the 6 foot blades that most shardblades are. ...

The text from the Prologue:

His Shardblade was long and thin, edged on both sides, smaller than most others.

 

Canonically, then:

1. It is long (but we don't know what it is being compared to).
2. It is thin.
3. It has two edges.
4. It is smaller than other Shardblades (presumably due to being thinner?)
5. It is not described as being ornate or even ornamented

By contrast, most Radiantblades are descibed as single edged and heavily ornamented. 

 

7 of the 10 Honorblades are described as "magnificent", "masterly works of art", flowing in design" and "inscribed with glyphs and patterns". 

 

The eighth (presumed, as it is the Shardblade Taln bears) Honorblade is described as "massive", "long, narrow and straight, shaped like an enormous spike."  I feel somewhat at a loss to explain how it is both massive and narrow, but I don't write these things. 

[Aether]

Szeth blade is short, not the 6 foot blades that most shardblades are. If his blade is a honorblade why is it short? I would think that Honorblades would also be bigger and used for the killing of voidbringers and such not for duels and killing people.

I made a longer post on the subject on this Thread. Other than that, here is a WoB confirming Szeth's Shardblade to be "modestly sized" for a Shardblade. There is another, more precise WoB on this, but I couldn't find it just now. Just note that his Blade is smaller than most Shardblades, but not necessarily small at all by other standards.

[Mileswasbestcharacter]

I don't think it could be jez, as kalak was the last to leave the circle of honor blades, based solely on that assumption, kalak would have the better standing. However, this is a small side point

[Aether]

Any of them could have simply returned at a later time to reclaim it. I do not think you should write Jezrian and the others off as easily as that.

[Bloodfalcon]

I made a longer post on the subject on this Thread. Other than that, here is a WoB confirming Szeth's Shardblade to be "modestly sized" for a Shardblade. There is another, more precise WoB on this, but I couldn't find it just now. Just note that his Blade is smaller than most Shardblades, but not necessarily small at all by other standards.

 

Szeth blade is short, not the 6 foot blades that most shardblades are. If his blade is a honorblade why is it short? I would think that Honorblades would also be bigger and used for the killing of voidbringers and such not for duels and killing people.

 

I haven't looked at what thread you linked, Aether, but the problem we keep running into with this is that when people see it, they immediately consider his blade to be shorter than others. But it doesn't say "shorter," it says "smaller." Even with that distinction in mind, the blade can still be both long and shorter than others at the same time. But we keep getting "smaller" or "modestly sized" which don't describe any specific dimension of size.I can't decide if that was done purposely or not, but long is in that description, so it is longer than regular swords, which I think invalidates the idea that it is a short blade so it isn't an Honorblade.

[Aether]

I haven't looked at what thread you linked, Aether, but the problem we keep running into with this is that when people see it, they immediately consider his blade to be shorter than others. But it doesn't say "shorter," it says "smaller." Even with that distinction in mind, the blade can still be both long and shorter than others at the same time. But we keep getting "smaller" or "modestly sized" which don't describe any specific dimension of size.I can't decide if that was done purposely or not, but long is in that description, so it is longer than regular swords, which I think invalidates the idea that it is a short blade so it isn't an Honorblade.

That link is to a specific post in that Thread, and only the first half of it is relevant to this discussion.

 

I think you are wrong though. In the WoB I referenced, Brandon is speaking of Szeth's Shardblade in the context of fighting against a Lightsaber. He had just suggested that a Lightsaber would probably win in a fight against a Shardbearer with a Shardblade, because "Shardblades were designed to fight something larger than another person". He then proceeds to express incertitude about the outcome of a fight between Szeth and a Jedi, the implication being that a Shardblade's enormous and clumsy shape would not be an issue in this case. Szeth's shardblade might be longer than an average sword, but it is clearly much smaller than the beasts the likes of Adolin and Dalinar swing around.

 

 

Also, I disagree that "smaller" could imply "long and thin". In some cases, as with people, you might describe a person of great girth, but small stature, as "bigger" than a person of small girth and tall stature. The latter, despite his hight, is "smaller" than the former.

 

For swords, on the other hand, the single most important characteristic for most situations is its length, and that is especially true for shardblades, whose weight - even without Shardplate - is negligible. A sword described as "smaller" than another one, would never not be "shorter". Szeth's shardblade is probably longer than most normal swords, but it is noticeably shorter than most other shardblades.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Aether

[Moogle]

Szeth's sword is undoubtedly long, if not as long as as other Blades. Kaladin himself remarks on it:

 

 

A man stood over two corpses. His pale head shaved, his clothing white, the murderer held a long, thin sword in one hand. He looked up from his victims and almost seemed to see Kaladin. He had large Shin eyes.

[Dros]

All (known) things considered, it seems to me that a group of Heralds might have come together to cut off the Nahel Bond wherever they have found it.

 

I mean, we have a few interludes of someone or more than one person with Shardblades hunting and killing anyone that has shown the ability to Surgebind, i.e. anyone with a Nahel Bond. Why are they doing this? No idea, but maybe they think, like Taravangian, that this type of vicious action, no matter how evil it might seem, is needed to block a Desolation in some way.

[11thorderknight]

First off, I just want to brag about the fact that I totes called it on Szeth having Jezrien's Blade, and getting Surgebinding powers therefrom.

 

Now, on to business: Szeth's Blade is described as "smaller than most others" and "long and thin". It's never, however, described as looking odd, or strange, or unique (in appearance). One theory I had initially was that, before the founding of the Orders, the Heralds were the only ones with Shardblades, and their "first-generation" Blades were made to resemble ordinary swords. Later on, when the Orders were making their own Shards, they "upgraded" them to make them bigger, in order to be more useful against thunderclasts. However, Taln's Blade is described as "massive". Also both his and Szeth's/Jezrien's are unornamented, while the others are described as having glyphs/shapes/pieces-of-flair on them, much like other common Blades. 

 

My takeaway on all this is:

 

1) While they do tend to be huge and ornamented, Shardblades have a lot of variability;

 

2) Szeth's Blade is smaller and plainer than most, but well within the "normal distribution" of Blade appearance;

 

3) The Honorblades as a whole are also variable and within that same distribution.

Edited January 11, 2014 by 11thorderknight

[Bloodfalcon]

That link is to a specific post in that Thread, and only the first half of it is relevant to this discussion.

 

I think you are wrong though. In the WoB I referenced, Brandon is speaking of Szeth's Shardblade in the context of fighting against a Lightsaber. He had just suggested that a Lightsaber would probably win in a fight against a Shardbearer with a Shardblade, because "Shardblades were designed to fight something larger than another person". He then proceeds to express incertitude about the outcome of a fight between Szeth and a Jedi, the implication being that a Shardblade's enormous and clumsy shape would not be an issue in this case. Szeth's shardblade might be longer than an average sword, but it is clearly much smaller than the beasts the likes of Adolin and Dalinar swing around.

 

 

Also, I disagree that "smaller" could imply "long and thin". In some cases, as with people, you might describe a person of great girth, but small stature, as "bigger" than a person of small girth and tall stature. The latter, despite his hight, is "smaller" than the former.

 

For swords, on the other hand, the single most important characteristic for most situations is its length, and that is especially true for shardblades, whose weight - even without Shardplate - is negligible. A sword described as "smaller" than another one, would never not be "shorter". Szeth's shardblade is probably longer than most normal swords, but it is noticeably shorter than most other shardblades.

Consider the difference between a rapier and a broadsword. The rapier is definitely smaller without even considering length. On a Shardblade level, where the swords are huge, that would be a noticeable difference. If Szeth had a long rapier of sorts and everyone else was carrying what is basically a broadsword on a 2x scale or something like that, it would be noticeable. The fact that he said long in the quote is the only thing that would even have me consider it, but maybe that is exactly why it is there. 

[Inkthinker]

Has anyone figure out yet why they're called Honorblades?

[Natans]

Has anyone figure out yet why they're called Honorblades?

 

I guess that they are called this way because they are a heavily invested honor objects, likely they are created personally by Honor to arm his heralds against Odium Champions in the fight of the Oathpact (that to me are some kind of cosmeric Hunger Games between Honor, Cultivation and Odium for the rights of rule of the Gran Roshar System)

 

My opinion only =)

[Bremen]

Has anyone figure out yet why they're called Honorblades?

 

Because Awesomeblades didn't sound dignified enough

[WeiryWriter]

Has anyone figure out yet why they're called Honorblades?

 

Hmm... well I could make a guess.  There is that theory that shardblades are the result of the Radiants' Nahel bonds with their spren.  And I'm sort of toying with the idea that the Heralds were Nahel Bonded to Honor himself in my Dawnsingers are the Radiant Bonding spren theory (yes that was a shameless plug, deal with it).  So if those are both true, I would think "Honorblade" would be a fitting name for the result...  Hopefully that made sense.  It's getting late, so it might not.

Edited January 13, 2014 by WeiryWriter

[Dros]

Heh. Awesomeblades. 

 

I would think their direct relation to Honor would be the most likely reason. At one point, it seems Rosaharans were more Cosmere aware than they are now.