Hoid Shardholder

[WindrunnerRadiant]

I haven't seen anyone put forward anything beyond speculation as to Hoid being anything other than a very well-invested Worldhopper, and as people kindly pointed out rather early, he has been explicitly ruled out as a Shardholder. (at least, as of the current time in the Cosmere of SA/Mistborn Era 2 continuity)

 

Thank you for summarizing captain obvious.

[ParadoxicalZen]

I'm of the opinion he is something akin to a Sliver

[Jozomby]

I don't have an answer as to what he is, but seeing as he's had at least some of his more spectacular powers since before the Shattering, I don't think he falls into any of the categories we're familiar with, such as shard, splinter, etc.

Edited October 27, 2015 by dklee10

[WindrunnerRadiant]

Just curious, but... um... What are his more spectacular powers? Beyond the ones he's picked from hopping world to world post-shattering, all we know for sure is the Worldhopping itself (he would have had to come by that on Yolen... well, almost definately anyways) and possibly whatever healing capabilities he has (as Brandon seemed to say it was something we haven't seen). I'm positive that there is plenty we haven't seen from him, we haven't really seen anything extraordinary. Well, besides being on every world in every major event ever.

[the.fulgid]

We can safely say that we know Lightweaver of Rens will be part of Hoid's backstory, so he likely had Lightweaving pre-Shattering.

 

I can't say that worldhopping came before the Shattering, but I don't think it came much later. Possibly as a result of the Shattering. But since we've seen people of the 17th Shard following him, people who AREN'T Splinters, Shard holders, or Heralds, I don't think that ability came from those sources.

 

Brandon has also said that he is very difficult to kill. Now, that might be a result of combined Allomancy and Feruchemy. The Second Letter refers to him "in [his] current incarnation". Maybe that just means his disguise. However, I believe these mean something much different.

 

In short, I don't think he's a Shard, Splinter, or Herald, but something else entirely. Something very unique. And he's making himself more so as he goes to each world and picks up bits and pieces.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Moogle

[Jozomby]

the.fulgid covered what I was talking about pretty well.  The only addition I'd like to make is that I don't believe Hoid's "resistance to being killed" comes from the metallic arts.

Edited October 28, 2015 by dklee10

[WindrunnerRadiant]

Brandon has also said that he is very difficult to kill. Now, that might be a result of combined Allomancy and Feruchemy. The Second Letter refers to him "in [his] current incarnation". Maybe that just means his disguise. However, I believe these mean something much different, though all I have to support that theory is the unpublished Dragonsteel. Suffice it to say that I think his ability to circumvent death was also pre-Shattering.

 

Yes, Brandon did say that Hoid would be nigh impossible to kill. From what he has said about it, it sounds different from compounding with gold, though it would be on par if not better - as far as I know gold healing is purely physical and Hoid has been confirmed to be able to heal from spiritual wounds like those from a shardblade. However, that could also come from some other aspect of the metalic arts. Perhaps Alluminum Ferrings (Trueselfs) would be able to, that would give him the necessary abilities.

[Voidus]

Yes, Brandon did say that Hoid would be nigh impossible to kill. From what he has said about it, it sounds different from compounding with gold, though it would be on par if not better - as far as I know gold healing is purely physical and Hoid has been confirmed to be able to heal from spiritual wounds like those from a shardblade. However, that could also come from some other aspect of the metalic arts. Perhaps Alluminum Ferrings (Trueselfs) would be able to, that would give him the necessary abilities.

Feruchemical gold can heal spritual wounds too, such as healing back attributes that have been stolen through Hemalurgy.

[Ari]

Thank you for summarizing captain obvious.

 

That was unnecessary. Sometimes it's useful to say "there haven't been any cool theories on this subject elsewhere," and honestly, the main subject of this thread doesn't really merit a ton of discussion beyond "here is the relevant WoB" and "I don't see much evidence for this general line of inquiry anywhere else either. As far as we know he's just got a lot of magic."

[WindrunnerRadiant]

Feruchemical gold can heal spritual wounds too, such as healing back attributes that have been stolen through Hemalurgy.

 

Thank you for that. I wasn't sure and didn't have time at the moment to look it up.

[Voidus]

Thank you for that. I wasn't sure and didn't have time at the moment to look it up.

The direct quote if you're interested:

 

 

 

KURKISTAN (GOODREADS)

Could Miles heal back his Allomancy if it was spiked out of him?

BRANDON SANDERSON

No, he could not. He would no longer be an Allomancer. Also, he'd probably be dead.

KURKISTAN

I'd thought maybe he could just do some super-tapping from his existing Health in his goldminds (since he'd still have his Feruchemy)...

BRANDON SANDERSON

Oh, I see what you're asking. Using Feruchemy to heal the removed portion of soul. That's actually plausible, not so different from healing other kinds of soul-wounds. If he survived, then yes, this actually might work. (That's why I get for reading the questions so quickly.)

[Christin White]

I can't say that worldhopping came before the Shattering, but I don't think it came much later. Possibly as a result of the Shattering. But since we've seen people of the 17th Shard following him, people who AREN'T Splinters, Shard holders, or Heralds, I don't think that ability came from those sources.

 

Sorry for the off-topic, but out of curiosity, do we know there were other worlds other than Yolen before the Shattering? Is it possible the Shattering was some kind of creation event as shard holders created new world and solar systems with their powers? It doesn't seem like that large of a leap from moving Skadrial closer or further from the sun to creating the planets and, with it, bringing humanity to these new worlds?

[the.fulgid]

I think I actually have read somewhere, probably on here or Coppermind, that shareholders did indeed create life on the planets they went to. We know for sure that Ruin and Preservation worked together to create life on Scadrial. I won't say it's canon or truth, but I don't think it's too far fetched to believe it possible others did the same.

[Voidus]

Sorry for the off-topic, but out of curiosity, do we know there were other worlds other than Yolen before the Shattering? Is it possible the Shattering was some kind of creation event as shard holders created new world and solar systems with their powers? It doesn't seem like that large of a leap from moving Skadrial closer or further from the sun to creating the planets and, with it, bringing humanity to these new worlds?

The major Shardworlds I think all existed before the Shards arrived on them.

 

 

 

THORONDIR

Who names the planets? You've said once that "Scadrial" was the name of the planet as Ruin and Preservation knew it, but where'd they get that name? Do the Shardholders all get together and vote on it or something?

BRANDON SANDERSON

He said thay already had their names and that the all the planets existed before the shardholders got there.

[Moogle]

As a friendly reminder, please do not discuss Dragonsteel content at all on the open forums. Keep it to PMs.

 

This means you should not be saying, "I don't believe X because of Dragonsteel but I won't go into any detail". Just saying that is a spoiler in and of itself.

 

It can be hard to avoid talking about it when what you read in Dragonsteel relates to a topic, but for the sake of other members who do not have access to the novels, please keep silent on what's in the book.

 

For information on rules on unpublished content, please refer to the forum's rules.

[I_am_NOT_fire]

Spoiler: Hoid survives through the whole of the stormlight archive. All ten books.

[Christin White]

The major Shardworlds I think all existed before the Shards arrived on them.

Interesting. I'd love to fill in some of the gaps regarding cosmere cosmology and it might have some implications on what we know of Adonalsium, the opposing power and possible whether or not they were gods responsible for the creation event or just two (or more) other super-shards wielding a lot of power.

Edited November 6, 2015 by chrisWhite

[Stormgate]

I agree with The Honor Spren. My personal theory is that he is a splinter, most likely a Herald.

I can't say about anything else, but Hoid is not a Herald. Either Hoid himself denies it, or there is a WoB on it, but I am very confident he is not a Herald.

I do have a theory in my head that Hoid is an Elantrian, or a half-Elantrian, or something. We know he has white hair, like Elantrians, but his skin isn't silvery. Thus the half-Elantrian, but I have no clue how that would happen.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Stormgate

[the.fulgid]

I do have a theory in my head that Hoid is an Elantrian, or a half-Elantrian, or something. We know he has white hair, like Elantrians, but his skin isn't silvery. Thus the half-Elantrian, but I have no clue how that would happen.

The are a few problems with that theory, unfortunately. We don't have any evidence that Elantrian offspring are taken by the Shaod, or that Elantrians even CAN have children, given the seemingly eternal state of their bodies. So he likely isn't descended from an Elantrian. There's the possibility that the Shaod affected him, but not to a complete degree, and thus he's only half transformed. But, as we know, not only is he not from Arelon, he's not even from Sel. So that's even more unlikely than the mixed blood option. He could mimic the effects, as Hrathen did, but that would only be temporary, and likely a waste of his time to keep up such pretense.

Edited November 5, 2015 by the.fulgid

[Jozomby]

Spoilers for Elantris 10th anniversary edition:

 

It's implied pretty heavily, if not outright stated, in the final pages of the anniversary edition that Hoid tried to gain Elantrian powers and failed.  While, chronologically speaking, this is quite early in the history of the Cosmere, so it's technically possible that he could have later gained them and become an Elantrian, it rules out any possibility of him being an Elantrian from the beginning.

[Voidus]

The are a few problems with that theory, unfortunately. We don't have any evidence that Elantrian offspring are taken by the Shaod, or that Elantrians even CAN have children, given the seemingly eternal state of their bodies. So he likely isn't descended from an Elantrian. There's the possibility that the Shaod affected him, but not to a complete degree, and thus he's only half transformed. But, as we know, not only is he not from Arelon, he's not even from Sel. So that's even more unlikely than the mixed blood option. He could mimic the effects, as Hrathen did, but that would only be temporary, and likely a waste of his time to keep up such pretense.

And given that Hoid's from Yolen and was alive before Devotion existed I'd say the odds of being descended from an Elantrian are around 0.

[natc]

I'm honestly shocked as to how often that detail gets overlooked

[the.fulgid]

Haha that too. I was slightly chastised the other day for dropping hints related to Dragonsteel and other parts of Hoid's history, so I was trying to avoid such things. But yes, he was around hundreds, if not thousands, of years before Elantrians were a thing on Sel.

[Voidus]

Haha that too. I was slightly chastised the other day for dropping hints related to Dragonsteel and other parts of Hoid's history, so I was trying to avoid such things. But yes, he was around hundreds, if not thousands, of years before Elantrians were a thing on Sel.

General knowledge stuff is fine I think, particularly since it's been confirmed in so many WoBs, it's only specifics of unpublished works that should be avoided.