Oudeis he/him Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 There are those who think that Trell is another Shard. One Harmony cannot see and doesn't understand. More importantly, Sazed speaks of how Trell was worshiped in classic Scadrial. So... let's say you're a Shard. And you can see that Scadrial will be an interesting place to be in a few hundred years. Preservation has already set his own plan in motion, so it's not impossible for a Shard to predict, at least in general terms, what's going on. So... what if you slip in now? Ruin is trapped by Preservation, Preservation is currently stupid. You slip in, set up some influence, get worshiped as someone named Trell. Not an awful long con. Maybe he doesn't fully Invest. Just a thought. It came to me tonight over dinner. For all I know, I'll wake up tomorrow and realize why this is totally impossible. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucephalus Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 That doesn't sound unlikely. However, it's been pointed out elsewhere that our current Trell doesn't seem all that similar to ancient Trell, due to the fact that Miles felt that he shouldn't serve the government, while ancient Trell was all about the beauty of the night. I'd bet that it's more likely that someone did the con while Sazed was still figuring out the whole God deal, and just decided to use an already existing template, modifying it to suit his ends. I mean, it's basically what people do all the time with mythical creatures. You take a long forgotten creature, give it a few new traits, then send it off in whatever lore you're using. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 I'm sticking to my theory that ancient Trellism actually worshiped Adonalsium, with some hints provided by Ruin or Preservation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kobold King he/him Posted October 15, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 I read this topic title, and immediately thought of Hoid chuckling over the polka-dotted spike from the end of the book, exclaiming "Ha--classic Trell!" You may ignore me now. 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted October 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) When I was trying to name this thread and realized I was talking about "Trell" possibly existing as far back as classic Scadrial, that is exactly what came into my mind, too. EDIT: I confess, my thoughts on the matter are stymied to an extent by the fact that many Trell discussions apparently spoil an unpublished work, so I'm avoiding them. On that note, I would like to politely request that if anyone wants to bring up the unpublished work in this thread, PLEASE make sure to put everything behind a spoiler cut each time, and accept that I won't be reading them, so I can't respond to any points you make thereby. Edited October 15, 2015 by Oudeis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted October 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Double-posting to admit defeat. Apparently new WoB has it that there are a maximum of two Shards on Scadrial. I suppose it's still possible Trell is some sort of agent of a Shard, maybe a Splinter made for this purpose? But the idea that Trell is an actual shard is down the tubes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the winter system Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 They don't have to be on the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 I think that Trell's origin story is legit - Trell was just a forgotten god of antiquity that was invented as an origin story. But that story persisted (thanks, Sazed!) and now any of those forgotten gods could be used by a rival Shard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari he/him Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 There are those who think that Trell is another Shard. One Harmony cannot see and doesn't understand. More importantly, Sazed speaks of how Trell was worshiped in classic Scadrial. So... let's say you're a Shard. And you can see that Scadrial will be an interesting place to be in a few hundred years. Preservation has already set his own plan in motion, so it's not impossible for a Shard to predict, at least in general terms, what's going on. So... what if you slip in now? Ruin is trapped by Preservation, Preservation is currently stupid. You slip in, set up some influence, get worshiped as someone named Trell. Not an awful long con. Maybe he doesn't fully Invest. Just a thought. It came to me tonight over dinner. For all I know, I'll wake up tomorrow and realize why this is totally impossible. If Trell is in any way relevant, (and we're being set up to think he is) then I am definitely on your side on this one. Either founding your own religion, or better yet, taking over one that's similar to your own philosophy and guiding it in the right direction, would be the best front group for worldhopping agent provocateurs to do their work. If Autonomy (or other "Trell" candidates) are interfering on Scadrial, using existing religions seems like a very strong way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who Sharded? Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 The Cosmere actually stretches into the Malazan universe. Expect to see a Mappo cameo sometime in the future. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayward Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 If Trell is in any way relevant, (and we're being set up to think he is) then I am definitely on your side on this one. Either founding your own religion, or better yet, taking over one that's similar to your own philosophy and guiding it in the right direction, would be the best front group for worldhopping agent provocateurs to do their work. If Autonomy (or other "Trell" candidates) are interfering on Scadrial, using existing religions seems like a very strong way to go. From a different perspective, disruptively subverting a group with ties to Preservation seems in character for an intent promoting autonomy. As to Autonomy's presence... I was at the signing on 10/24 and asked "Is Autonomy interfering on Scadrial?" Brandon RAFO'd the question and pulled a huge smirk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari he/him Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) Which either means he is and Brandon is enjoying not telling us about it, or he's completely red-herringed us by giving away Autonomy's intent just before the mysterious alien God Metal spike showed up. lol edit: This thread name keeps making me think it's a topic about dumb things Trell did, which we're all going to tell stories about and then react by saying "Classic Trell". lol Edited October 19, 2015 by Ari 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter he/him Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 From a different perspective, disruptively subverting a group with ties to Preservation seems in character for an intent promoting autonomy. As to Autonomy's presence... I was at the signing on 10/24 and asked "Is Autonomy interfering on Scadrial?" Brandon RAFO'd the question and pulled a huge smirk. Hey would you mind posting about that in that event's thread in the Events and Signings forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormingTexan he/him Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 edit: This thread name keeps making me think it's a topic about dumb things Trell did, which we're all going to tell stories about and then react by saying "Classic Trell". lol Same here! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paragrin she/her Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 I keep getting hung up on the star maps. Trellism (sp?) was the religion that made the star maps that allowed Sazed to put the planet back in its right orbit. Could it be a coincidence that the most crucial part in the restoration was provided by the same storming god? Do we see Sazed rejecting Trellism? What grounds does he use? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinxer he/him Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Well, looked it up for you, Paragrin, and it's interesting. Their doctrine was purposefully vague, they'd taught, allowing all men to discover truth for themselves. Reading this, however, left Sazed frustrated. What good was a religion without answers? Why believe in something if the response to half of his questions was "Ask Trell, and he will answer"?-HoA, Chapter 46 Seems pretty much like Autonomy to me. Perhaps that's an intentional red herring, though. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Which either means he is and Brandon is enjoying not telling us about it, or he's completely red-herringed us by giving away Autonomy's intent just before the mysterious alien God Metal spike showed up. lol edit: This thread name keeps making me think it's a topic about dumb things Trell did, which we're all going to tell stories about and then react by saying "Classic Trell". lol "Classical Trell" would be the more accurate name, yeah XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikomis he/him Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 I like the idea that it's a real power hijacking an existing religion. That said, "Classic Trell" made me think of a soda campaign. "Original recipe, new design, same Trell flavor!" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted October 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 edit: This thread name keeps making me think it's a topic about dumb things Trell did, which we're all going to tell stories about and then react by saying "Classic Trell". lol Yeah, I went with Classic Trell over Classical Trell mostly because the phrasing amused me. The Onion once posted a television line-up with blurbs about shows that night: "Tonight, on 'That's So Raven', Raven Baxter behaves in a manner entirely in keeping with the type of person she is." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firehead13 Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Perhaps Trell is the name given to the portion of Harmony that is more of Ruin than Preservation? We know that Sazid tries to hold himself apart from his powers (the scene with Wax in SoS where he says something along the lines of "I agree with you but the powers don't") and we know that Ruin could speak to people who were spiked - ask Trell, and he will answer. If Sazid begins to think that maybe he has preserved the Elendel Basin too thoroughly, is it possible the conciousness of the power would take over and force him to take certain actions? Like someone with extreme OCD almost, he sees something that has been preserved too perfectly for too long (stresser) and he has to throw a wrench into the plans (compulsion). That could be the cost of housing opposing shards within one's self. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted October 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 The religion of Trell speaks of Trell's thousand eyes, dominated by his brother's single, blazing, jealous eye. Stormlight Archive Is this same Shard responsible for the religion of the Purelake, where Ru Nalik is worshipped, but his jealous brother Vun Makak is ostensibly worshipped? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSC01 he/him Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 My theory is that Trell was/is a worldhopping missionary, of sorts. I have the notion that he seeded religions that involve two gods--one who is petty and/or foolish and another who is actually worthy of worship. I think that his motivation is that the Shard on his homeworld was one of the "bad guy" Shards, and he discovered its true nature and was disillusioned. However, after hearing about the God Beyond and such, he was inspired to teach people belief systems that allow for your god to end up being a jerk and things can still be okay. Also, its a sort of revenge on his Shard, as the religions he seeded subtly reference him as the evil god. So people all around the Cosmere indirectly dislike the Shard. Now, that is only for Trelagism. I'd wager that the new Trell religion was founded through the influence of the Shard from Trell's homeworld or one of his minions. Why start a new religion when he can corrupt one that was set up to troll him? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevita he/him Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) Perhaps Trell is the name given to the portion of Harmony that is more of Ruin than Preservation? We know that Sazid tries to hold himself apart from his powers (the scene with Wax in SoS where he says something along the lines of "I agree with you but the powers don't") and we know that Ruin could speak to people who were spiked - ask Trell, and he will answer. If Sazid begins to think that maybe he has preserved the Elendel Basin too thoroughly, is it possible the conciousness of the power would take over and force him to take certain actions? Like someone with extreme OCD almost, he sees something that has been preserved too perfectly for too long (stresser) and he has to throw a wrench into the plans (compulsion). That could be the cost of housing opposing shards within one's self. I had more or less the same thought, but I don't think it's about Ruin and Preservation any more. I think it's about Harmony and Anarchy, a very chaotic and disordered kind of freedom. But yeah, you pretty much nailed it. Sazed made Trell. (I think). Edited November 6, 2015 by Caevita 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killersquirrel59 he/him Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 Well, looked it up for you, Paragrin, and it's interesting. Seems pretty much like Autonomy to me. Perhaps that's an intentional red herring, though. That quote doesn't at all seem like Autonomy to me. Autonomy is supposed to be all about figuring things out for yourself, not relying on structured power, fighting the system, and hyper-individualism. The idea of "Ask Trell, and he will answer" seems very much in keeping with a top-down structure of obedience and dependence. But I've never liked the idea of Trell being Autonomy at all. I have a couple of possibilities: 1) Trell is Odium. This could have been the case in Classic Scadrial as well, since we knew Odium was traveling at that point. What I actually picture here is that Odium hijacked the seeds of an existing pre-Ascension religion on Scadrial at the time (likely sun-worshippers) and formed his cult around the opposite. That seems right in Rayse's style. 2) Trell is a prank by Hoid or some other powerful Worldhopper. I like Hoid for it, because the idea of setting up an intrinsically ridiculous sounding religion and then checking back in a thousand years and seeing what became of it seems right up Hoid's alley. 3) Trell in classic Scadrial was Preservation, who was the one who was good at seeing the future and knew that at some point in the long run, there would be a great need for star maps, so subtly influenced a group of people to study astronomy as part of his long-term plans to thwart Ruin. If this is the case, then 2nd Era Trell was likely hijacked to suit the purposes of some other, more nefarious group (looking at you 17th Shard...) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 (looking at you 17th Shard...) Except the sevententh shard does not seems nefarious at all. Except for the Ars Arcanum Author. No one in their right mind would say hemalurgy isn't evil. Plus accidentaly starting a plague in the purelake by bringing non-native viruses while searching for Hoid is not a sign of competence. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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