Blindillusions Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) http://images.wikia.com/stormlightarchive/images/2/2d/TWoK_Rear_Endsheet.jpg I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but I'm not fluent enough with this website (yet) to conduct extensive searches. ...Also, this is the first time I've been in front of a computer I could access this site from in about 2 weeks, so time, 'tis a harsh task master...and.... Anyway, my point would be related to the above image, which presumably depicts the Ten Orders of Voidbringers and their Surges. Unlike the simple lines which connect the Ten Orders of Knights Radiant to their Surges, the connections for the Voidbringers appear to be lighting bolts. (Well, actually, lighting bolts appear all over that image.) And, while I'm not exactly for or against the thought that the Parshendi/Parshman are the Voidbringers, I do find this image very interesting. Namely, what form has recently been (re)discovered by the Parshendi? Edited October 30, 2013 by Blindillusions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookspren Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Oh, interesting. I never thought of that. Storm form does seem like it could be linked to lightning. On the other hand, there is WoB that the storms are of Honor like the mists were of Preservation. I'm still not certain Jasnah was right about the Parshendi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindillusions Posted October 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Well. Not just lightning so much. What if storm form is the form the Parshendi must be in to access all surges. A theory perhaps easily cracked...but it's all simply about generating thought and discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 What an excellent set of thoughts. Not only are there apparent lightning bolts, but the background of the central area seems like stormclouds. Many of the large icons (not the glyphs) seem like they could be stylized creatures. Others have noted that the glyphs are semi-reversed versions of the glyphs in the Radiant chart. The woman in the frame seems significant and one hand is dark. Could she be Cultivation with the one hand helping and the other pruning or the Nightwatcher with curses and boons. The colors are bright on top and dull below. I assume it is a diagram of a magic system like the Radiant chart. Mistborn spoiler: In Mistborn, there were two Shards and they had three magic systems, one for each Shard and one shared. Brandon has said there are thirty magic systems on Roshar, but I don't know what he is counting. If we think of the ten powersets of the Radiants as ten magic systems we could get to thirty by having three ways to access them. Accessing the powersets through the Nahel bond, fabrials and creatures could correspond to an Honor system, an Honor-Cultivation shared system and a Cultivation system. Odium could work by corrupting these systems. This could be a chart of the Cultivation system. Or we could look at the ten Radiant powersets as one system and look for systems for each of the three shards and combinations. I count seven combinations: one for each Shard, one for each pair of Shards and one for all three. This chart could be the Cultivation/Odium system. I don't know how to get to thirty from seven though. But Adonalsium has invested on Roshar also. With 4 Shards, we get 15 combinations (4 single, 6 double, 4 triple and one quadruple). Fifteen is half of thirty. Could there be an additional duality making the thirty magic systems? This chart could be a Cultivation/Adonalsium system. Magic we've seen: Radiants Corrupted essences: Midnight essence, thunderclasts Nightwatcher blessing/curses Creature-based: Reshi islands, Aimians (two kinds), larkin, Parshendi Radiant fabrials Modern fabrials And I still have no clue about what voidbringing might be. It could even include some of the above. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Adonalsium is not a Shard, he's what the Shards come from and is no longer a distinct entity. Now, we do have WoB that Odium is not "native to Roshar", but depending on interpretation that may or may not mean he arrived after the others. There's also a death quote that indicates there used to be three Shards on Roshar, but this count may or may not include Odium. Also, Brandon has said that the magic system count depends on what you consider a magic system, with 30 as the high end. So I think ten surges and three shards are where that count is coming from. Now, the surges are named very broadly, so it's entirely possible a Pressure/Gravity Voidbinder would look completely different from a Windrunner; flinging singularities, making people explode, and sucking the air out of a room would all fall under manipulating pressure and gravity but could not be readily accomplished with Windrunner lashings. And it's possible we've already seen all the Windrunner lashings; basic is gravity, full is pressure, and reverse is both since it's less effective on objects touching the ground, which does not fit with how gravity behaves but can be explained by having pressure involved as well. I guess for the wider implications of how Shards interact to produce magic systems, you'd count each Surge as one system. Three are from individual Shards, leaving seven. Three of those are likely from pairings, leaving four, one of which is probably from all three. That leaves us three more. We can get those from the paired systems, either by mixing them in the same manner and discarding the triple combination or by pairing them with the triple. I'm thinking it looks like this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 There is WoB that there are spren that are splinters of Adonalsium on Roshar. This means to me that there is a significant investiture from Adonalsium on Roshar that persists. I imagine that the investiture of Adonalsium on Roshar doesn't compare to a full Shard, but I don't really know, so it is worth considering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloom Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Adonalsium is not a Shard, he's what the Shards come from and is no longer a distinct entity. Now, we do have WoB that Odium is not "native to Roshar", but depending on interpretation that may or may not mean he arrived after the others. There's also a death quote that indicates there used to be three Shards on Roshar, but this count may or may not include Odium. Also, Brandon has said that the magic system count depends on what you consider a magic system, with 30 as the high end. So I think ten surges and three shards are where that count is coming from. Now, the surges are named very broadly, so it's entirely possible a Pressure/Gravity Voidbinder would look completely different from a Windrunner; flinging singularities, making people explode, and sucking the air out of a room would all fall under manipulating pressure and gravity but could not be readily accomplished with Windrunner lashings. And it's possible we've already seen all the Windrunner lashings; basic is gravity, full is pressure, and reverse is both since it's less effective on objects touching the ground, which does not fit with how gravity behaves but can be explained by having pressure involved as well. I guess for the wider implications of how Shards interact to produce magic systems, you'd count each Surge as one system. Three are from individual Shards, leaving seven. Three of those are likely from pairings, leaving four, one of which is probably from all three. That leaves us three more. We can get those from the paired systems, either by mixing them in the same manner and discarding the triple combination or by pairing them with the triple. I'm thinking it looks like this: There is no interpretation required. BrandonOdium is not native, that's the thing. Are any of them native? So if you dig the deeper question, are any of them native, ehhh, none of them are native to the planets you've seen so far. What I probably should've said to be more precise is that Honor and Cultivation were there long before Odium showed up. Lance AlveinDid Cultivation come to Roshar with Honor, or was she already on Roshar when Honor arrived? Brandon SandersonGood question. They came together. StormAtlasWere Cultivation and Honor romantically involved? Brandon SandersonYes. source Sorry for not commenting on the rest of your post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marianmi Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 What I find most striking in that picture is that in the center you have a big gem (instead of the double eye). Also, the magic systems I see them as: 10 = honor + cultivation 10 = fabrials 10 = odium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Yea, that's pretty much what I thought as well. Though I am no longer confident fabrials warrant their own magic system - we already know they can mimic every surge, maybe there is nothing really special about them (assuming they can imitate voids as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marianmi Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 "Brandon has said that the magic system count depends on what you consider a magic system, with 30 as the high end." 30 is the high end, when you consider fabrials a "separate" magic system. If you don't, then you have 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marianmi Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Btw, I am curious is voidbinding has emotional effects... they seem to be missing from surgebinding (but they were a big part in allomancy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Magic we've seen: Radiants Corrupted essences: Midnight essence, thunderclasts Nightwatcher blessing/curses Creature-based: Reshi islands, Aimians (two kinds), larkin, Parshendi Radiant fabrials Modern fabrials And I still have no clue about what voidbringing might be. It could even include some of the above. We should probably add 1 Szeth to the list of magic we have seen. He is exibiting Windrunner like abilities but he is different enough (no Spren) that he doesn't really fall under the Radiant catagory. He is not a currupt essence As far as we are aware he has not visited the Nightwatcher He is not a native creature He does not have a fabiral (modern or ancient) Still the way Szeth obtained his powers must fit into the framework somewhere, maybe it is voidbinding (as you say), maybe not... either way it is another magic type that we have directly observed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 We should probably add 1 Szeth to the list of magic we have seen. ...He does not have a fabiral (modern or ancient) Still the way Szeth obtained his powers must fit into the framework somewhere, maybe it is voidbinding (as you say), maybe not... either way it is another magic type that we have directly observed. Good catch. Although he is carrying a fabrial of unknown vintage. My totally unsupported theory is that he gets the windrunning from the sword, which I do not believe to be an honorblade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 There are "Lightning Bolts" around the depiction of Nalan in certain chapter headings as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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