A bit of character analysis from the flipside of the fandom...

[Greywatch she/her]

I'm all about the crackshipping, though the only issue I might have with Jasnah/Kaladin is the age difference. I know they're both adults and are totally capable of making their own choices, but age difference + lighteyes/royalty privilege and power that Kaladin doesn't have makes it a little squicky. 

 

On the other hand, they're kind of in a unique position, as at the end of WoK, they're two of very few (maybe only Szeth also I think?) who've out and out been established as people with powers of the Knights Radiant. Someone brought up an interesting point (I think it was tinandpewterstrength.tumblr.com) that Jasnah has shown she does kill to protect, to defend those who don't have the power to protect themselves, which I thought might actually work as a very powerful point of connection. Not that they would go around chatting about how awesome it is that they're all about protecting the powerless, but - I think there could be something there. 

 

(See, now I feel like I could write something with this.)

 

The only thing is, I feel like Kaladin would be quite separate from the Kholin group at large, including his own age peer group (Adolin, Renarin, Shallan), never even mind someone older and so far away from his relevant experience/job. 

 

...Although, the whole New Knights Radiant connection thing going on there, perhaps Syl would like her? Now I'm thinking about these different spren communicating with each other, off-topic, whoops.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Kaladin and Jasnah, that's one I haven't heard before... I think in terms of Jasnah ships Shasnah (Shallan/Jasnah) is the fan favorite at the moment. I should see if I can get Gavin (abalidoth) to make an explanation post about it, because he is MUCH better at explaining Shasnah than I would be. I can link to his tag for Shasnah, though I don't think he's posted any kind of formal analysis thus far.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

I'm not saying it was your intention to sound that way, but your phrasing does sound dismissive.  Granted it could just be how I'm reading it.  I just know that calling a ship that somebody likes "totally random" before giving them a chance to explain it is, in my opinion not the best way to have handled it.  I just think it would have been better to have Aether explain his reasoning before judging its random-ness.

 

I know that some tumblr people were put off by some of the reactions to shipping in this thread.  Now I don't think anybody was deliberately trying to be dismissive, or at least I hope they weren't.  But some people took it that way, and it turned them off from joining in here.  Which is truly a shame.  People do not always react to things how you would expect and we have to consider that in how we phrase things.  I don't know what you were trying to get across when you made your post, only how it sounded to me.  Does that make sense?

 

Basically, when somebody posts a new ship I think we should here them out before judging it.

[Kurkistan he/him]

*Double-checks thread to make sure it wasn't his fault*

 

I'm sorry to hear that, Weiry. We're a small enough bunch that I think it sad to split up Brandon's fandom like that.

[Argent he/him]

One of the reasons I like Vasher so much is because neither one of us is very good with words... It is a peculiarity of mine that I think of everything in terms of hypotheses and evidence. Reading "Jasnah/Kaladin" really translated into "I find this likely," and I automatically jumped on the lack of factual support. Though in my defense, Aether said this ship could be interesting, so my reply could be viewed as a "no, it doesn't feel like it would follow the book" kind of response. If you squint really hard, it looks reasonable.

 

But for what it's worth, I apologize for how I might sound to some people. My words have a tendency of sounding much wiser and more considerate before they leave my mouth.

[Greywatch she/her]

I think something to be said on the topic is that shipping isn't like making theories. It's fun. Sure, the text is the source for character personalities and interactions and histories, but a lot of what shipping is extra-canon. People who ship are extrapolating and imagining possibilities rather than trying to construct airtight theses/predictions on "why these two should be together and will be by the end of the series". 

[FeatherWriter she/her]

To elaborate on the tumblr mishap, most of the contention came from the dismissal of the Kallarin ship as an impossibility because of its queer aspect. Some of the tumblr members worried that open discussion of representation for gender, romantic, and sexual minorities might be met with scorn, derision or hostility here, so they felt as though this was not a side of the fandom where they felt welcome. Most of the contention has been smoothed over now, but a good number of them simply feel more comfortable on tumblr where speculation like that and queer headcanons for characters are the norm.

 

Argent, I don't think what you said about the Jasnah/Kaladin ship was out of line. (To be honest the idea of those two together is somewhat baffling to me as well.) I'm wondering if someone who does ship it could give me some of the basis behind that pairing? Because I'm just not seeing it from where I stand... There's nothing wrong with saying that you can't see the foundation for a ship, or that it seems random. Just, don't be mean about it or say that the person is stupid for shipping that? (Which I don't believe you did, Argent. So you're fine!)

 

But that's the cool thing about ships. If you don't understand where someone's coming from, you can ask them why they think the two would be a good pair, even if you sometimes end up disagreeing with their conclusions. Agreeing to disagree after evaluating the evidence is a major part of good shipping ettiquete. And that's something the tumblr cosmere fandom has done WONDERFULLY with thus far. #CFSBF. 

[Kurkistan he/him]

I think something to be said on the topic is that shipping isn't like making theories. It's fun.

 

For shame, good sir/madam! I, for one, find great enjoyment in spending a dozen hours drawing ASCII art of impossible ship designs that later turn out to be based on a demonstrably false theory, disproved by no less than three separate inarguable foes: Science, Brandon Sanderson, and Myself.

 

I started writing that out as a joke, but I actually did enjoy that, and look back at it fondly even now...

 

...

 

I'm weird. 

 

...

 

Please continue about your day.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Kurk has a little bit different of an idea of what "shipping" entails than the rest of us. Ha.

[Kurkistan he/him]

Kurk has a little bit different of an idea of what "shipping" entails than the rest of us. Ha.

 

Lol, didn't even make that connection.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

So, now that we have confirmation that Renarin sees a spren, how cool would it be to see Shallan and Renarin develop their Surgebinding together?

[Greywatch she/her]

For shame, good sir/madam! I, for one, find great enjoyment in spending a dozen hours drawing ASCII art of impossible ship designs that later turn out to be based on a demonstrably false theory, disproved by no less than three separate inarguable foes: Science, Brandon Sanderson, and Myself.

 

I started writing that out as a joke, but I actually did enjoy that, and look back at it fondly even now...

 

...

 

I'm weird. 

 

...

 

Please continue about your day.

 

It does sound like a good use of a few dozen hours. =P

 

No, for real, I didn't mean to suggest theorizing isn't fun. I've had a blast going through the theories (nodding thoughtfully or squinting doubtingly as I go), and I'm a little too late to the party to offer much in the way of novel thoughts, though I'm holding out for getting to be a  bigger part of WoR discussions. Shipping theorizing just... works differently. I don't know about other people, but "being plausible" isn't necessarily a cornerstone of being a good ship. If someone can write two people you never ever could see together, like say, Jasnah and Kaladin, but they do it in such a way you say, "oh, hey, that's a cool idea I dig how you presented this developing relationship", that's sometimes how ships gain supporters. 

 

Being plausible does matter! It's just the difference between a normal ship and and a "crackship", as in "you ship this you must be on crack". The way you go about it, however, is pretty much the same.

 

@Mailliw73 So I'm behind on my Realmatic theory/knowledge of Surgebinding (I'm catching up), but do we think Renarin and Shallan share a surge? (If this too tangential, I'll just keep digging.)

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Heh, and when you said you had spent hours making ASCII art of impossible ship designs I was expecting like, a detailed graphic of the words "I DON'T THINK KALADIN AND SYL WOULD WORK AS A COUPLE" or something.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

@Greywatch Not really, we really have no idea what order of KR Renarin will belong to, but in the thread I linked to above, Feather comments that it is possible and theorized that he is a Skybreaker. I personally really like that idea. That would put Renarin at Order 2 and Shallan at 6. So they wouldn't share a surge, I just think that their individual powers being developed could be an even greater reason I ship them.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Mailliw73

[Kurkistan he/him]

Just FYI: I didn't actually spend all that time drawing those two ships. Mostly thinking about the theory behind them, compiling quotes and evidence, thinking some more, typing it up, eventually defending and then defenestrating it, etc. I'm not that slow at ASCII art (that said, those ships did take a surprisingly long time to get right).

[Gloom he/him]

Lets just say that their isn't enough romance writer in me for me to understand.

[Ete'ni]

Kalladin/Jasnah ship? easy enough.

 

Jasnah never got any resistanse from men, that's for certain. On other hand Kaladin with his stubborness. Yeah, I can see a confrontantion coming. Confrontation is what makes a relationship interesting. Fron one thing Jasnah may be baffled just as much as you.

 

For second sight, Kaladin is pretty mature for his age. And greatly differs from any other lighteyes

 

And he's good fighter, good leader, and the center on adoration for his crew. Yeah, he might catch her eye, especially since he'll act as safeguard for the whole family. Since Jasnah is very sceptical, she'll try to figure out how he managered to climb that high. She might be even fascinated.

 

And Kaladin is fun to tease, have I mentioned that before? Probably it'll work for Jasnah as well.

 

Age gap is bad, of course. But that can be interesting for Jasnah to have a younger lover. AS for Kaladin, Jasnah is beautiful and woman. Who cares of her age?

 

Still I think that Kaladin won't be the moving force in this relationship. that leaves the question: what might it be for Jasnah?

[Natans he/him]

Kalladin/Jasnah ship? easy enough.

 

 

 

*Cofcof* Miss FeatherWriter I really liked your shipping Renarin post's, But I think that by the nature of this discussion, you inadvertedly may have planted the seed of a very dangerous thing, AKA "The Shiping War".

 

I see that many are creating they own times like JasAdin and such. So in the event of the flame wars errupt. I will hold you accountable by this grievous crime.=)

 

PS: Sorry for the musings I had to much coffee today =)

Edited November 5, 2013 by Natans

[Mailliw73 he/him]

*Miss Feather

[Ete'ni]

Natans

Am I missing something? you quote my words but addressing another person.

[Natans he/him]

Natans

Am I missing something? you quote my words but addressing another person.

 

Sorry, I used you to made my point that the "shipping moviment" is spreading, because of the Jasnah Kalladin shipping that you are defending.

 

 

PS: Don't mind me plx =)

[Ete'ni]

well, I seriously don't mind anyone but Wayne, so ok.

 

Though my point was that this situation is possible, not that it's the one I'm looking for. Still supporting Shallah-Kaladin-Syl line.  

[Natans he/him]

well, I seriously don't mind anyone but Wayne, so ok.

 

Though my point was that this situation is possible, not that it's the one I'm looking for. Still supporting Shallah-Kaladin-Syl line.  

 

Lol

 

Shallah-Kaladin-Syl Threasome? I woudn't dare discord but, personally I allways thinked that Kaladin had someone in the  Amaram army that helped him to not "burn away" when Tien died, and I'm a sucker to historys of someone helping you when you are in down in the pit, So I bevieve in Tarah-Kaladin  

 

And if  i'm correct now that Amaram are going to Shattered Plains I think that Kaladin will met someone from his dear past =)

[Ete'ni]

Well... can you think of Kaladin not having Syl by his side? Oh, dear... Can you think of her not giving any comments on the matter? Hmph...

 

Well... I don't mind much any shipping with Kaladin. It's just not all of them are funny. And  Tarah-Kaladin doesn't sound like fun.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

*Cofcof* Miss FeatherWriter I really liked your shipping Renarin post's, But I think that by the nature of this discussion, you inadvertedly may have planted the seed of a very dangerous thing, AKA "The Shiping War".

 

I see that many are creating they own times like JasAdin and such. So in the event of the flame wars errupt. I will hold you accountable by this grievous crime.=)

 

PS: Sorry for the musings I had to much coffee today =)

Oh, my apologies, Natans. Here, I was thinking that the Cosmere fandom was still the best fandom. The tumblr side of the fandom has been handling shipping disagreements with kindness, poise, and maturity for almost a year now. Didn't realize the Sharders don't think they can keep up.