A bit of character analysis from the flipside of the fandom...

[Gloom he/him]

I think, considering Kaladin's fathers plans for him, that eventually, Kaladin will form a romance with a light eyed woman. I don't know that it will be Shallan, but if it isn't, then no big deal. We still have about 4000 pages for him to meet someone. I would like to note that it appears from the cover blurb, that Kaladin and Shallan will be spending some time together in WoR. I get that they don't exactly fit each other like a glove, but since they are likely to both be deeply involved in politics before long, I think Shallan would be good for Kaladin when navigating the morass of politics. He's too damned honorable to avoid a set up. Shallan is crafty enough and devious enough to watch his back.

[Guest Alaxel]

I'm a little unclear, do these 'ships' have to be romantic in nature, or does this include entirely platonic relationships - sorry, ships - as well?

Because I think Kaladin and Renarin could become fast friends, but, and I apologize if this comes across as harsh, the idea of them becoming romantically involved is so unlikely as to be laughable. The social barriers in the way are just too large to be overcome. Hell, even if one were a woman - their social rank is far enough apart to make this impossible. I mean, Renarin is afriad he's being viewed as feminine due to his inability to participate in the masculine arts. So, even if he truly loved Kaladin, engaging in a homosexual affair with a man far, far below his rank would be the last thing he'd consider doing to help his reputation.

If this were a romance novel, then the social, barriers would make it a compelling story. Since this is not a romance novel, romance in it will serve to further the larger narrative in some way. For this reason I consider a fast friendship between the two of them to be extremely likely and, for the same reasons, a romantic relationship to be absurd and implausible.

Or maybe I'm just entirely missing the point of shipping? WTB Understanding, pl0x halp.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Ooh, new to the shipping front! Let me help! 

 

When most people talk about "shipping" they do mean romantic relationships. In the original analysis back-and-forth, both of the ships, Shallarin and Kalarin, were being considered as romantic relationships. In most cases, that's what people are going to be talking about. Romance, kissing, falling "in love" so to speak. 

 

Most people stop there. That's shipping in a nutshell. You can stop here and consider yourself knowledgeable on shipping.

 

....

 

....

 

But if this really is your kind of thing, there can be more.

 

With the rise in popularity of Homestuck, lots of people have started using the four romantic quadrants (well, three of them at least, one doesn't really get used at all) to designate other types of relationships too. On tumblr, there's A LOT of overlap between Homestucks and the Cosmere fandom, so we like to use their terms to talk about the Cosmere. Because why not? It's fun!

 

Homestuck has an alternate culture that has four kinds of romance, where they use four symbols (the four playing card suits) to differentiate between four very different kinds of romance. So, where "normal shipping" would just use the heart symbol to be "love," the quadrants also offer relationships based on the symbols for diamonds, clubs, and spades as well. (With... various applicability to other fandoms.)

 

I used this terminology above, when I said that I ship Kaladin and Syl "pale." That's Kaladin <> Syl

 

Explanation of the four quadrants under the cut, just because I don't want this to get all long and technical if people aren't interested. Or you can click here, but it's kinda long and hard to understand. (Also, some slight cosmere spoilers below.)

• Matespritship: (<3) This one's basic. Romantic love as we know it. It's even designated with the heart to keep things simple. In Homestuck these people are known as "matesprits" and the relationship is said to be "flushed."
  • Examples: Vin <3 Elend | Siri <3 Susebron | Raoden <3 Sarene. | Dalinar <3 Navani
• Moriallegiance:  (<>) The most popular non-standard romance option for shippers, and they're kind of like platonic soulmates. They're like a best friend, but with an added aspect of extra protectiveness. Moirails don't let ANYONE hurt the other person, even the person themselves. You keep them from doing stupid stuff and you trust them to keep you out of trouble too. You've got each others' backs in a really awesome way. This relationship is denoted with the diamond symbol and these relationships are said to be "pale."
  • Examples: Kaladin <> Syl | Renarin <> Adolin | Vin <> TenSoon | Dockson <> Kelsier
• Kismesissitude: (<3<) This one can be a little difficult to wrap your head around as a type of romance, because this person is basically your arch-rival. A kismesis is that person you love to hate, that you just have to get the better of, and you can't let them get the better of you. It's a nemesis taken to the point of a relationship, and you'll devote time and energy to taking this person down or getting the best of them. In other kinds of media this is the kind of relationship that Batman and the Joker would have or Sherlock Holmes and Moriarty. It's designated by the spade symbol and these relationships are known as "black" or "caliginous."
  • Examples: Denth <3< Vasher | Ruin <3< Preservation | Miles <3< Wax (Miles is so so so black for Wax, it's not even funny.)
• Auspisticism: (c3<) This one hardly ever gets used, but an auspice is a person who steps between two other people to keep them from getting into an unhealthy relationship, for the good of all. This kind of relationship is known as "ashen" and it's denoted by the clubs symbol. When writing out these relationships, the auspice goes in the middle of the two people that they're separating. I can only think of one real example for the Cosmere, where Sazed keeps Vin from pursuing her relationship with Zane, since it's unhealthy.
  • Example: Vin c3< Sazed c3< Zane

Did you read all that? Have a cookie. You deserve it.

 

So, to answer your question Alaxel, you could say that you ship Kaladin and Renarin "pale." Kaladin <> Renarin. (I think this could be a cute option for them too, though I think Adolin might get jealous. He's pretty protective of his little brother.)

 

TL;DR - I brought in shipping quadrants and it got complcated and I'm sorry. Just straight up romantic love works for ships too if you don't want to read all that.

 

[Guest Alaxel]

Ah, interesting. And I'd always prefer to have more information than not enough. Hell, even if I had had absolutely no interest in shipping, I likely would have read that entire post because, generally, I am interested in things that people are passionate about. I'll definitely enjoy, at the very least, having a fun new set of nomenclature to define relationships that are already established. And using different potential relationships to predict character development will definitely feed my Cosmere addiction...although I'm probably just preaching to the choir at this point.

In conclusion: Alaxel♣Cosmere♣Reality Television

(I may not have done that quite right, but I think you might get my meaning.)

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Ah! Those little symbols are cool! How'd you do that?

 

And if the Cosmere is keeping you and Reality TV apart, then you've used it correctly! (Nicely done!)

 

Glad you liked it. I was a little worried that I might have been overwhelming there...

[Guest Alaxel]

Alt 3, Alt 4, Alt 5, and Alt 6 should be Hearts, Diamonds, Clubs, and Spades, respectively. I'm fairly sure that's it, but my phone also does it automatically.

[deddinty]

For the record, those numbers have to be on the NumPad, not the top row of a keyboard. ♥♦♣♠

 

I definitely see a close Renarin/Kaladin friendship being very possible.  If nothing else I think Renarin will remind Kaladin enough of Tien that he may become somewhat more protective of him than is strictly necessary.

Edited October 23, 2013 by deddinty

[Argent he/him]

If nothing else I think Renarin will remind Kaladin enough of Tien that he may become somewhat more protective of him than is strictly necessary.

 

This. 

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Yep exactly thoughts on Kaladin and Renarin. so Feather to clarify, this is correct: Roial<3<Ahan?

[FeatherWriter she/her]

I'm not familiar with those characters... *quickly googles*

 

Oh goodness, they're from Elantris it seems, and while I've read the book twice I still feel very unfamiliar with it. After a quick spin about the Coppermind, I have come to the conclusion that, WOW, I APPARENTLY DON'T REMEMBER ANYTHING ABOUT ELANTRIS. Roial's article says that they were long-time rivals and friends (which sounds kismesis-y to me) and that Ahan felt very guilty over Roial's death. I was hesitant at first, since getting a rival killed is outside the spirit of kismesissitude (one wants a lasting relationship, not death) - but the fact that he felt guilty about it makes me think it's a viable option.

 

I wish I remembered more about Elantris, Harmony dangit. From what I can tell, Roial ♠ Ahan seems canon!

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Ok, thanks, I just happened to have recently reread it and they were the first ones to pop in my head when you described it.

[Windrunner he/him]

I don't think Ahan wanted Roial dead. He seemed pretty shocked when Roial got stabbed. I like these shipping categories, Feather. It's interesting to see what boxes people put relationships into.

[Argent he/him]

I don't think Ahan wanted Roial dead. He seemed pretty shocked when Roial got stabbed. I like these shipping categories, Feather. It's interesting to see what boxes people put relationships into.

 

He didn't.

 

Telrii snapped his fingers, and a soldier stepped forward and rammed his sword directly into Duke Roial's belly. Roial gasped, then crumpled with a moan.

"Thus are the judgments of your king,' Telrii said.

Ahan yelled. eyes widening in his fat face. "No! You said prison!" He rushed past Telrii, blubbering as he knelt beside Roial.

"Did I?" Telrii asked. Then he pointed at two of his soldiers. "You two, gather some men and find those assassins, then .. ." He tapped his thin

thoughtfully. .. throw them off the walls of Elantris."

 

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Aww.. yep. Sounds like a good example of a kismesis, though with a rather tragic ending. :C (Maybe I should reread Elantris one of these days. 

[Kurkistan he/him]

For the love of-

 

I have to type 4 numerals (0151) to get a gorram em-dash—a basic character—but it's just 1 numeral for smiley faces and card suites!?!?! 

Edited October 23, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Gloom he/him]

— I never knew how to make those before...didn't even know what they were called. Thanks Kurki! —

Up vote for teaching me something new

[Kurkistan he/him]

Thanks, at least someone benefited from my pain.

 

For fun, the en-dash is 0150. For that 1–2% of the time when you might need it.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Kurkistan

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Oh dang. Em-dashes are like my fave punctuation but I usually just totally wuss out and use the regular dash outside of Word where it does it for me. It's like a parentheses for places that you're not supposed to put parentheses. (I'm looking at you, all of my English papers. You are filled with em-dashes for this very reason.)

[Aether he/him]

I hesitate to dip my toes into this, but am I the only one finding a Jasnah/Kaladin match up to be potentially far more interesting than "Shallarin" or "Kalarin"?

[Argent he/him]

Jasnah and Kaladin? I don't see how. I mean, I don't find it impossible, it's just something I've never thought about, there have been absolutely no hooks. Even after having thought about it for a few minutes, I still see it as entirely random. That's like suggesting... I don't know, Szeth and Navani. Well, almost.

[Gloom he/him]

Nah, we all know it'll be Jasnah and Teft.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Jasnah and Kaladin? I don't see how. I mean, I don't find it impossible, it's just something I've never thought about, there have been absolutely no hooks. Even after having thought about it for a few minutes, I still see it as entirely random. That's like suggesting... I don't know, Szeth and Navani. Well, almost.

 

That is a bit dismissive, don't you think?  I could see Jaladin happening, though I wouldn't say I would ship it.  I certainly wouldn't say it was "random."

[Aether he/him]

Well, it doesn't seem that unlikely that Jasnah at least becomes curious of Kaladin, if what he can do with Stormlight ever becomes known to the Kholins (which is rather likely, considering he's now become leader of Dalinar's Honourguard). Purely in a scholarly way, of course, at least in the beginning, but as she discovers more about his background, his medicinal talents - and not in the least his rather unusual knowledge of Glyphs - that interest might turn into something more., especially considering that he has many of the qualities that she can respect.

 

I suppose the reverse - Kaladin taking interest in Jasnah - might be more difficult to believe, but she is one of the more honourable Lighteyes (at least in her own way). She's also very strong of character, and not in need of protection - both of which I believe that Kaladin would appreciate and need in a woman.

 

 

EDIT: @WeiryWriter: Jaladin xD. Personally, I prefer Kalasnah.

 

 

EDIT 2.0: @Gloom: And how the hell are you everywhere on this forum! I mean, kudos for your prolificacy!

Edited November 4, 2013 by Aether

[Ete'ni]

Well... hust my thoughts:

 

- Kaladin might become a fighting teacher for Renarin and a brotherly character

- Adolin won't like Kaladin much. Dalinar told Kaladin that adolin feels bitter. I'd be too, actually. And Adolin is spoiled by being the better one.

- Shallan might get interested and messing with Kaladin. I can sense some teasing from both her an Syl on Kaladin. It'll make hin into man. Definately. Probably. Maybe. At least that's be highly amusing

- I don't give much credit to any of Dalinar's sons at the moment.

 

Kaladin/Jasnah would be nice but I doubt Kaladin is that interesting to her. Jsut what in the world can it be for her? I wonder. SAving her life? her brother's life? or being stubborn? don't know... It'll be very slow progress.

[Argent he/him]

I had no intention to sound dismissive, WeiryWriter. I was expressing personal feeling towards the potential ship, not an objective opinion - I couldn't find anything that would put those two together. I still can't, actually - Jasnah is a historian before anything else, and Kaladin has never expressed an interest in the field. Religious grounds can't really unite them. Morals and ethics won't work either, because Kaladin is much more impulsive than Jasnah - he does things because he feels they are right; Jasnah thinks. Medicinal knowledge is the only type of knowledge Kaladin possesses that could be of interest, but if a medical degree alone made men popular with women in the academia, I would've earned a PhD there very quickly...

 

But again, I don't want to sound dismissive - at least not in the way you imply I do. I discard the ship because I find it implausible and unjustified, not because it's outrageously impossible. I do want to see Shallan and Syl drive Kaladin insane though.