Landis963 Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 This idea came to me suddenly. Why is it that, with 10 surges, the number of possible combinations outstrip the number of known Orders? Surges: Gravitation (G) Adhesion (Ad) Division (D) Abrasion (Ab) Progression (P) Illumination (I) Transformation (Tf) Transportation (Tp) Cohesion © Tension (Te) Known Orders: Windrunners: G-Ad Skybreakers: Ad-D Dustbringers: D-Ab Edgedancers: Ab-P Truthwatchers: P-I Lightweavers: I-Tf Elsecallers: Tf-Tp Willshapers: Tp-C Stonewards: C-Te Bondsmiths: Te-G That leaves 36 two-Surge combinations not covered by any Radiant Order. (8 more that would use Gravitation, 7 additional which would use Adhesion, but not Gravitation, 6 additional which wouldn't use any of the previous Surges, and so on) It got me wondering about discrepancies, and I noticed that, of the present day roster of Knights Radiant, only Renarin - a Truthwatcher - can see the future (a power he used to write the countdown). This particular detail becomes even more interesting when pared with Honor's assertion that "Cultivation is better at this [seeing the future] than I." So why, then, is there an Order of Knights Radiant - a group, that is, which can form bonds with beings that are of Honor - displaying powers that Honor is self-admittedly incompetent at? My theory: There is a breed of Knights Radiant which are of Cultivation rather than of Honor, and the Truthwatchers are one of these. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Why should there be one order per surge combination? And why do you think all nahel spren come only from Honor? Especialy if we consider Honor and Cultivation cooperated with one another before the death of Tanavast. The general opinion around the forums is that the bottom orders of the surgebinding chart are more cultivation and the top ones are more honor, with the possible exception of dustbringers(bravery and obedience sounds like honorable conduct) and willshapers(building sounds like cultivation). While I don't fully agree that the division is that neat and think surgebinding as a whole is more of Honor than Cultivation, it helps to understand each order as different from the rest and the magic system as more complex than the ones in mistborn, at least when it comes from the shardic origin. Also, while only Renarin saw the future, Shallan somehow subcounciously saw Shallash and the sailors while drawing, so clarividence is not unique to the Truthwatchers. Edited September 13, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Plus, Renarin saw them all die, and they didn't, so the accuracy of Truthwatcher prophecies are about suspect enough to match Honor's incompetence in the area. Ruin also does not seem that good at predicting since he was out-gambitted so badly, but his god metal when applied in allomancy creates perfectly accurate future predictions for two seconds. When under duralumin flare even longer, and seemingly still accurate. I would suppose the magical effects of a shard's investiture applied to a magic system don't necessarily reflect the shard's powers in application. On the Orders thing, 10 is too ingrained in Roshar (both nature and religion) to not make the most sense. There's no reason to believe there are other combinations . . . yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 On the Orders thing, 10 is too ingrained in Roshar (both nature and religion) to not make the most sense. There's no reason to believe there are other combinations . . . yet. Or perhaps those combinations are applied through a different magic system. After all the Surges just forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teknopathetic Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Truthwatcher abiliries might mirror those found in the book Sixth of Dusk. In Sixth of Dusk, one ability is to see possible locations of your death in the immediate future. There is no shard on that world, yet this ability is manifest. My gut is that Renarin can see possible futures, but he will never know which ones are too late to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 The Radiant Spren emulate the Herald's Honorblade. There isn't much chance to have more Order than Heralds. Much more Brandon stated that the 2 Surges of every Order/Herald aren't randomical. And there aren't possible all the combinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 The surges as we see them aren't matched up at random, they're matched in a specific pattern and they complete the pattern. Also, they are modeled after ten Heralds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt='radiants' Number 14 (won't let me direct link ¬_¬) Interview: Sep, 2012 Cosmere Q&A - 17th Shard (Verbatim) ragsWe know that there are 10 orders of Radiants and 10 different powers, with each order having access to 2 of them. Any reason why this "class restriction" exists (they are lot more combinations possible with 10 powers)? Brandon SandersonThere is a reason. I don't know when I want to get into it, however. Apparently there is an actual reason for why the KR are organised the way they are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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