Moogle Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Do you really need to write a letter to a Shard? Wouldn't it be able to find out what you want to say without you writing it using a manner similar to Scadrial's piercings? Frost is a Dragon. He (he?) doesn't need to be a shard as well until and unless we have some positive evidence for that. I don't think Shards can spy on worlds they aren't Invested on/present at. Harmony sends kandra, after all. I doubt Frost could just read Hoid's mind if he were a Shard.Frost may be a dragon, but if he is, they're not immortal by default. Hoid clearly speaks as if Frost became immortal as a thing that happened ("now that you're immortal".) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corax Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 I think it's fair to say that he definitely doesn't have to be a Shard to have acquired immortality. We've seen that there are already multiple other ways to become functionally immortal. Gold Compounding, or as was noted earlier, holding enough Breath. I suspect that you just have to have enough Investiture in one way or another. I don't think Shards can spy on worlds they aren't Invested on/present at. Harmony sends kandra, after all. I doubt Frost could just read Hoid's mind if he were a Shard. Yeah, but how funny is it to imagine Hoid saying little snarky prayers to Frost?In 'reality,' though, I suspect he's using some spren-like cognitive messenger. (Maybe he splinters off mini-Hoids. If so, I want one.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Gold compounding cannot stop aging, actually. I believe Miles Hundredlives himself says it. It does make you nearly unkillable though, and atium compounding can handle the continuous age regression. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Indeed, as natc says, we only know of one thing regular people can get in the Cosmere which grants immortality: Breaths. Compounding atium would require lerasium - which we can say with some confidence that Frost doesn't have (as he hasn't worldhopped, and Hoid did not seem to give any to him judging by his talk of "the element" in the letter). Immortality may or may not be a common thing as a result of getting a lot of Investiture (I've theorized such before), but we don't have much in the way of examples to work off of. As I said earlier, I think it's pretty likely Frost doesn't hold a Shard. But he might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) Just want to point out this: even atium compounding can't really make someone functionaly immortal, since feruchemy woeks based on multipliers and the extra power compounding gives is not infinite, so there is a time limit implicit to atium agelessness. Also, on Hoidsplinters: I do believe he is more investiture than flesh by this point, but do you really think he could create splinters of himself? The mind of a shard is not capable if directly controlling all of its investiture at the same time, so I understand how there wouldn't be too much ramifications to letting some of it control itself, but can Hoid just tear away a big chunk of his spiritweb, give it sentience and walk away like it was nothing? I think he isn't at that level of power yet. Edited September 17, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Just want to point out this: even atium compounding can't really make someone functionaly immortal, since feruchemy woeks based on multipliers and the extra power compounding gives is not infinite, so there is a time limit implicit to atium agelessness. Well obviously, being granted immortality by the power of Ruin would be silly. It does last a good while at least, better than nothing. To be honest, immortality sounds really terrible anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sovereign Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Well obviously, being granted immortality by the power of Ruin would be silly. It does last a good while at least, better than nothing. To be honest, immortality sounds really terrible anyway. Just another possibly that is worth at least consideration. The fifth heightening grants functional immortality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobar14 Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 On my phone, so this'll be brief, but it seems pertinent to the discussion. Frost is confirmed to be from Yolen, yes? And recent WoB (from the absurdly long AMA) confirms that Frost is not a worldhopper. Therefore, frost is still on Yolen. Has anyone actually confirmed the definition of a Worldhopper? Is a Worldhopper an individual that has the ability to hop across worlds? Or Is a Worldhopper anyone that has been to more than one world? If it is the fromer, then Frost doesn't have to be on Yolen. He could be a non-worldhopper that got brought along with a worldhopper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Has anyone actually confirmed the definition of a Worldhopper? Is a Worldhopper an individual that has the ability to hop across worlds? Or Is a Worldhopper anyone that has been to more than one world? If it is the fromer, then Frost doesn't have to be on Yolen. He could be a non-worldhopper that got brought along with a worldhopper. I'm pretty sure Brandon is using definition (2), as he's referred to Nazh as a worldhopper iirc, and unless he's somehow been granted powers of his own, he's just along for the ride, as he comes from Threnody. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 I'm pretty sure Brandon is using definition (2), as he's referred to Nazh as a worldhopper iirc, and unless he's somehow been granted powers of his own, he's just along for the ride, as he comes from Threnody. He recovered a drawing from the middle of the ocean after the ship it was melted into water. Honestly, in order to do this he probably needs to have pretty useful magics or advanced tech he could also use for worldhopping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corax Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 I think I didn't phrase my thoughts correctly; it seems to me (and of course I could be wrong,) that if you are stuffed with enough investiture, potentially using any method, you become functionally immortal. Maybe it's because at that point you punch though to existing more solidly in all three realms, and ideas are—as have been mentioned—hard to kill? Also, on Hoidsplinters: I do believe he is more investiture than flesh by this point, but do you really think he could create splinters of himself? The mind of a shard is not capable if directly controlling all of its investiture at the same time, so I understand how there wouldn't be too much ramifications to letting some of it control itself, but can Hoid just tear away a big chunk of his spiritweb, give it sentience and walk away like it was nothing? I think he isn't at that level of power yet. That was meant to be more of a sort of joke. Hoid's nature is probably drastically different from an average human, so I was just playing with the idea of it. Being a Lightweaver himself, I wouldn't be surprised if he could do something that was functionally similar... akin to Awakening a doll with a very complex (and probably clever) Command. But it wasn't really meant that seriously in the first place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 He recovered a drawing from the middle of the ocean after the ship it was melted into water. Honestly, in order to do this he probably needs to have pretty useful magics or advanced tech he could also use for worldhopping That's a good point, he's probably gained some sort of investiture, although that doesn't necessarily mean he uses it for worldhopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__theblackthorn Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 On 9/18/2015 at 9:54 PM, Corax said: That was meant to be more of a sort of joke. Hoid's nature is probably drastically different from an average human, so I was just playing with the idea of it. Being a Lightweaver himself, I wouldn't be surprised if he could do something that was functionally similar... akin to Awakening a doll with a very complex (and probably clever) Command. But it wasn't really meant that seriously in the first place. So....Can we talk about Spoiler how Corax predicted that scene in Oathbringer where Hoid pops a doll down the street to lure a frightened child from hiding...? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacThorstenson Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 14 minutes ago, __theblackthorn said: So....Can we talk about Hide contents how Corax predicted that scene in Oathbringer where Hoid pops a doll down the street to lure a frightened child from hiding...? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprendiferous Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) I believe we have a WoB confirming that Frost is not a shardholder. Questioner We know that Hoid is really old. Is there anyone else around that same age who is not a Shardholder? Brandon Sanderson Yes. He communicates with one of these people by a letter in one of them. Questioner *inaudible* Brandon Sanderson Not very many, let’s say that. Footnote: The person Brandon is referring to is the dragon Frost. Edited November 28, 2017 by Sprendiferous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farnsworth Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 I REALLY don’t think Frost holds a shard. He’s a non-Interventionist now, so he probably was a “meh” fellow in the past. I don’t think he’s the type to take up a Shard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzik Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 What is up with all the different ooklas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacThorstenson Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 Check out this link, it may explain a few things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Kholin Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 Frost is a dragon. Dragons in the Cosmere are functionally immortal. They do not age, but can be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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