Tatara

[BlckAlchmst]

I've looked in the Warbreaker section of the forums and haven't found any mention of this. I'm just curious, whatever happened to Tatara? Lightsong's niece whom he died saving. Llarimar mentions that Lightsong saved her but never what happens. Any ideas what happened?

[Kurkistan he/him]

I'd simply assumed she went on living a normal life.

[Windrunner he/him]

She's still alive. Llarimar probably hung out with her during that festival when Lightsong told him to go see his family. It honestly took a minute to remember that Tatara was her name. xD

[Gamma Fiend he/him]

Now thinking about it. This brings up a random theory.

IF we accept that Lightsong was supposed to become Returned in order to save The God King, do you think it could have been anyone, or did it specfically have to be Lightsong? I.e., Endowment somehow made Tatara go overboard so she could be saved so Lightsong could drown in order to come back as Returned.

Sounds pretty crazy now that I type it out, it just kinda came to me just now anyway. I doubt that this is the case at all, but interesting speculation, nonetheless.
Anyone wanna shoot this "theory" down?

[Kurkistan he/him]

I would guess that the mechanics work such that, at any given moment, Endowment has all the people who died doing "Endowy" things to choose from. Lightsong was of the proper disposition and timing to bring back, then.

[Gamma Fiend he/him]

Yeah, who knows what kind of games Endowment is playing. Because I'm speculating that maybe it had to be Lightsong in particular to save The God King (Sue). Think about it. Anybody who is Returned becomes a God. But as we see, almost all the Gods of the Court become pampered, selfish people who didn't care about self-sacrifice, or really anything for that matter. (At least most of them, there are a couple actually good people there, of course)

So my argument is, would any regular old random Returned have made the same sacrifice? Or do you think Endowment knew it would take someone with Lightsong's personality and spirit, just so he could doubt his divinity enough to actually force himself to rise to the occasion and be put in the situation to save Sue. 

Now that's a thinker.

[Pechvarry]

This is what my wife would call a "both-and" scenario. To my mind, at least, Endowment would see what is to come. It would have a pool of people to Return, and know what kind of mission suits them.

Under this belief, it saw the life of Lightsong, knew he would die, know he would be exactly what was needed for Operation God-King.

This doesn't mean Endowment was behind the storm as much as foresaw the outcome. But it doesn't mean it wasn't all caused by Endowment either.

[Aethling he/him]

I always saw it as more they are given a vision of what they could prevent and a choice as to whether or not they wanted to return to accomplish the goal.  That could function independently of Endowment taking an active role in creating the mishaps that cause the death of the people that would then return.  That smacks a bit too much of classical predestination

[happyman he/him]

I always saw it as more they are given a vision of what they could prevent and a choice as to whether or not they wanted to return to accomplish the goal.  That could function independently of Endowment taking an active role in creating the mishaps that cause the death of the people that would then return.  That smacks a bit too much of classical predestination

 

I agree with the sentiment being voiced here.  My main uncertainty is whether it is only Returned that see the future after they die, or if everybody sees the future after they die, but Returned, Returning as it were, are the only ones to tell living people about it.

[Observer]

I agree with the sentiment being voiced here.  My main uncertainty is whether it is only Returned that see the future after they die, or if everybody sees the future after they die, but Returned, Returning as it were, are the only ones to tell living people about it.

 

Sounds like the death cries from Way of Kings come to think of it.

[happyman he/him]

Sounds like the death cries from Way of Kings come to think of it.

 

Yeah, that's the main argument in favor of the "everybody sees something" theory.

Of course, we'd then need to understand why some see things while they are still alive (even if dieing) on Roshar, and it takes others until they are completely dead.  Given that the death cries need to be explained anyway, that's not really a problem for this theory, though.

[Shardlet he/him]

I don't know.  The voice of the death cries is so distinct from the voice of the people we have directly heard speak them (and seemingly detatched from their surroundings like people, etc.) that it feels more like in the moment of their death something else takes hold of their body and speaks out.  Their spiritual and cognitive aspects are separated from their body and something else steps in briefly to send a message.

[happyman he/him]

I don't know.  The voice of the death cries is so distinct from the voice of the people we have directly heard speak them (and seemingly detatched from their surroundings like people, etc.) that it feels more like in the moment of their death something else takes hold of their body and speaks out.  Their spiritual and cognitive aspects are separated from their body and something else steps in briefly to send a message.

 

That's a pretty good theory too.

 

Don't forget, though, that we do have a few other instances of people seeing the future in the Cosmere.  They should be included for balance.

 

We have Shards with the ability to do so (Honor, but Cultivation is better at it), people who have held significant amounts of Shardic power (TLR), Atium (the raw power of a shard) and whatever-happened-with-Wyrn-killing-Hrathen.

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

Endowment is about gifts, both from itself and from others. As such, I feel like Endowment simply shows the potentially-Returned the future, and makes it possible for them to give themselves toward some cause. If Endowment were to choose how this gift was to be given, it wouldn't be a gift at all. For example, I think it was absolutely possible, theoretically speaking, that a person could have Returned for the express purpose of preventing Lightsong from healing the God King. 

 

On another note, the dying delirium quotes are not so easily summed up as that. In some ways, it feels as though each individual experiences a fundamentally different effect. Consider the following:

 

“I’m dying, aren’t I? Healer, why do you take my blood? Who is that beside you, with his head of lines? I can see a distant sun, dark and cold, shining in a black sky.”

 

“I wish to sleep. I know now why you do what you do, and I hate you for it. I will not speak of the truths I see.” 

 

In each of these cases, it is fairly evident that the speakers have experienced some sort of phenomenon, but each retains not only their identity but also full consciousness of their physical environment. Furthermore, the first quote is almost definitely not a vision of the future: it appears to be a description of a Cryptic followed by one of Shadesmar. I get the feeling that whatever is going on, it is far more complex than a vision of the future or possession by some transient being.

[AerionBFII he/him]

I don't think Endowment would simply screw Lightsong over like that, i just think it made the best out of a bad situation

Maybe saw potential in Lightsong