(Theory) Dalinar is a Windrunner

[Colateralwar]

I was recently re-reading The Way of Kings and found something. In the chapter where the Chasm Fiend attacks Elhokar and Dalinar saves him there are a few details that make me believe that he may be a Windrunner, like Kaladin or Szeth, or some other Radiant. The scene is told from Adolin's viewpoint and he describes his father moving faster than any shardbearer could, how his speed and strength are beyond what ever the Shardplate could explain, and even that he seems to be glowing. Adolin writes off the glowing as stormlight leaking from the plate, but I think it was actually Dalinar unconsciously using his abilities, very similar to Kaladin.

 

Anyone else remember this or think there may be something to it?

[Phantom Monstrosity]

From a narrative standpoint I think having three windrunners when we haven't seen all the orders yet would be too many.

[Observer]

If anything he is an entirely different order. Either that or it's related to his Boon.

[Voidus]

Doesn't have to be a Windrunner, most of the orders would probably get the same enhancements from Stormlight and we already have enough Windrunners I think.

[Colateralwar]

Doesn't have to be a Windrunner, most of the orders would probably get the same enhancements from Stormlight and we already have enough Windrunners I think.

I think you, and others, are most likely right. Windrunner just instantly stood out in my mind, no doubt because we don't know the names of the others (other than Lightweavers which simply doesn't fit). Regardless, Dalinar's involvment in the plot, specifically the visions given to him by Honor, make it fairly clear to me that he either is, or at some point will be, a Radiant. 

[Aniki]

I think you, and others, are most likely right. Windrunner just instantly stood out in my mind, no doubt because we don't know the names of the others (other than Lightweavers which simply doesn't fit). Regardless, Dalinar's involvment in the plot, specifically the visions given to him by Honor, make it fairly clear to me that he either is, or at some point will be, a Radiant. 

We do know the names of a few others, eg. Stonewards, Dustbringers.

Personally, I'm for Dalinar being a Stoneward.

[Voidus]

Yeah I'd definitely agree that he's almost certainly going to be in one of the orders, at the very least he'll be a user of one of the systems of magic on Roshar, but given the glowing with the Plate thing I'd probably say KR actually now that I think about it, we might be able to tell what order from the glow since Adolin thought it must have been just Stormlight, does Stormlight have a particular colour or is it gem-dependent? I always imagined it as a lightish blue but I don't remember any specific mentions...

[Isomere]

I think Dalinar is a Skybreaker. Based on my theory of the Surges, he would have Inertia. I could see that giving you extra speed and let you hit like a truck. It also fits with him "Guiding" the Alethi people which is an aspect of Order 10. 

[KChan]

Let's stick with only the canon Surges for now; I don't like scaffolding theories unless they have overwhelmingly strong evidence that's built up over time.

It's definitely apparent that Dalinar is intended to become a Radiant at some point: between his visions, his dedication to honorable conduct, and the way his story has developed up to this point, it's pretty hard to argue otherwise. However, I'm with the others here: I don't think he'll be a Windrunner. However, I would need to learn more about some of the other Orders before I'd be comfortable guessing at where he falls in the grand scheme of things.

[hoser]

If you're curious, here are a few threads that have speculated about Dalinar's eventual Radiant order:  Dalinar's Power and Surgebinding Attributes.  Long story short: some have argued for Kak/Kelek's order (Resolute/Builder), while others have suggested Tanat's order (Dependable/Resourceful) or Chach's order (Brave/Obedient). 

 

Enjoy!

[Fistsofrage]

I think we need to take a closer look at the THRILL. The way Dalinar describes it sounds too much like how Kaladin feels with stormlight. And those shardplates have stormlight infused gems...

Edit: pretty sure this has been talked about in other threads

Edited May 3, 2013 by Fistsofrage

[Colateralwar]

I think it is fairly clear that there is something important about the thrill. It is mentioned too often and in too serious of circumstances to mean nothing. However I get the distinct impression that there is something very sinister about it. Specifically because of how Dalinar describes it. 

 

Despite the face that the man was a ruthless warlord in his earlier years, Dalinar is arguably the most noble person in the series thus far. I would say it was Kaladin except that he is clearly not over his extreme prejudice against Lighteyes, and justified or no this places Dalinar just ahead of him I think. As such, I think we can use Dalinar's reactions to the Thrill as a pretty honest indicator of their intent. If Dalinar sees it as wrong, it probably is.

[+HoidIsAwesome]

I think it is fairly clear that there is something important about the thrill. It is mentioned too often and in too serious of circumstances to mean nothing. However I get the distinct impression that there is something very sinister about it. Specifically because of how Dalinar describes it.

Despite the face that the man was a ruthless warlord in his earlier years, Dalinar is arguably the most noble person in the series thus far. I would say it was Kaladin except that he is clearly not over his extreme prejudice against Lighteyes, and justified or no this places Dalinar just ahead of him I think. As such, I think we can use Dalinar's reactions to the Thrill as a pretty honest indicator of their intent. If Dalinar sees it as wrong, it probably is.

AFAIK there is a theory somewhere that the thrill is caused by Odium to make men fight with each other thus making his task of destroying them that much easier.

[Fistsofrage]

I think it is fairly clear that there is something important about the thrill. It is mentioned too often and in too serious of circumstances to mean nothing. However I get the distinct impression that there is something very sinister about it. Specifically because of how Dalinar describes it.

Despite the face that the man was a ruthless warlord in his earlier years, Dalinar is arguably the most noble person in the series thus far. I would say it was Kaladin except that he is clearly not over his extreme prejudice against Lighteyes, and justified or no this places Dalinar just ahead of him I think. As such, I think we can use Dalinar's reactions to the Thrill as a pretty honest indicator of their intent. If Dalinar sees it as wrong, it probably is.

Risking the lives of his crew to save dalinars men was kaladins triumph over his hate for light eyes. He didn't stop distrusting them, but he also didnt allow the hate to keep him from doing the right thing. He's right not to trust them anyway, dalinar is just a freak exception for light eyes.

Also, dalinar became honorable way too late in life, after enjoying the young life of a light eyes. That puts kaladin ahead I would think.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Fistsofrage

[Leuthie]

If acting honorably gives Kaladin abilities...can't we assume that the Thrill is a similar ability attained from acting a certain way? If we can assume that Kaladin's abilities derive from Honor, can we also assume that the Thrill is derived from Odium? Feeling awesome and powerful is a nice incentive to hand out for fostering hatred.

[Colateralwar]

If acting honorably gives Kaladin abilities...can't we assume that the Thrill is a similar ability attained from acting a certain way? If we can assume that Kaladin's abilities derive from Honor, can we also assume that the Thrill is derived from Odium? Feeling awesome and powerful is a nice incentive to hand out for fostering hatred.

I think you could be right, perhaps the Thrill has something to do with Voidbinding. 

[Leuthie]

Why have so many attached "Void" things to Odium? Was this a WoB I missed somewhere?

[Colateralwar]

Why have so many attached "Void" things to Odium? Was this a WoB I missed somewhere?

Not that I know of, but Sanderson has stated that there are three major types of magic on Roshar, one for each of the three Shards present (Honor, Cultivation, and Odium). Each type contains ten specific magical talents. Surgebinding is linked to Honor. Then there is Voidbinding and one as yet unnamed type of binding. Voidbinding does not strike me as linked to Cultivation, and therefore most people associate it with Odium. 

[hoser]

If acting honorably gives Kaladin abilities...can't we assume that the Thrill is a similar ability attained from acting a certain way? If we can assume that Kaladin's abilities derive from Honor, can we also assume that the Thrill is derived from Odium? Feeling awesome and powerful is a nice incentive to hand out for fostering hatred.

There is another way to look at this as well.  None of the Shards are wholly evil.  Some aspects of Odium contributed to the entity that was Adonalsium. 

 

In Mistborn, Ruin was shown to have positive aspects after seeming purely evil at times.

 

So, what could be the positive aspects of Odium?

 

The thrill could fit with Odium's intent and allow one to survive and succeed in horrible situations.  It is not obviously of Honor or of Cultivation.  It could be part of what the Radiant was referring to in Starfalls when she said:

"And all who have a desire to fight should be compelled to come to Alethela.  Fighting, even this fighting against the Ten Deaths, changes a person.  We can teach you so that it will not destroy you.  Come to us."

 

Maybe the Radiants are referring to the Thrill as a part of what would destroy a person by drawing them too far toward Odium. 

[Phantom Monstrosity]

There is another way to look at this as well.  None of the Shards are wholly evil.  Some aspects of Odium contributed to the entity that was Adonalsium.

And how is that evidence?  Adonalsium could've been a huge jerk for all we know.

[Colateralwar]

And how is that evidence?  Adonalsium could've been a huge jerk for all we know.

I sort of just assumed he was. 

[hoser]

And how is that evidence?  Adonalsium could've been a huge jerk for all we know.

 

Okay.  Are you saying Adonalsium's personality survived the shattering?  Or are you saying that Adonalsium's basic drives were FUBAR and so some of the Shards are evil?

 

Anyway, I am just paraphrasing Brandon, as posted here:

Technically, Ruin would be most compatible with Cultivation. Ruin's 'theme' so to speak is that all things must age and pass. An embodiment of entropy. That power, separated from the whole and being held by a person who did not have the willpower to resist its transformation of him, led to something very dangerous. But it was not evil. None of the sixteen technically are, though you may have read that Hoid has specific beef with Rayse. Whether you think of Odium as evil depends upon how much you agree with Hoid's particular view.

[Morsk]

So, what could be the positive aspects of Odium?

 

Downvoting. Odium is the Shard of Downvoting. Most of online culture would cease to exist without His power. Perhaps all culture would.

 

Odium is probably part of judgment, or even choice or preference, the same way Ruin is part of life. He seems to be even more dangerous if left unchecked though.

[hoser]

Downvoting. Odium is the Shard of Downvoting. Most of online culture would cease to exist without His power. Perhaps all culture would.

 

Odium is probably part of judgment, or even choice or preference, the same way Ruin is part of life. He seems to be even more dangerous if left unchecked though.

So is there a Shard of trolling?  Maybe that one is purely evil. 

 

Besides the Thrill (the ability to enjoy doing everything to win), having the ability to distance oneself from what isn't meeting one's needs seems useful and could fit with Odium.  I wonder whether the irrational hatred that Szeth feels towards his victims is an unhealthy aspect of Odium.   

[Morsk]

So is there a Shard of trolling?  Maybe that one is purely evil.

Continuing the example, downvoting would be like Odium as 1/16th of Adonalsium, something that serves a purpose as long as it's under control. Trolling is Odium the Shard, all by itself, running around trying to make everyone mad at everyone else.

A more serious example is the God of the Abrahamic religions, who's held to be all-good, but also issued some terrible punishments. I think Szeth's punishment parallels Cain's and that it's intentional, and that it's supposed to show this frightening, judgmental side of the divine, all the more frightening in Odium's case, because that's all he is. I need Truthless to be something Odium corrupted into the Shin religion for the parallel to make sense though, so it's something of a guess.

Besides the Thrill (the ability to enjoy doing everything to win), having the ability to distance oneself from what isn't meeting one's needs seems useful and could fit with Odium.  I wonder whether the irrational hatred that Szeth feels towards his victims is an unhealthy aspect of Odium.

That's interesting. I noticed that Szeth hates his victims, his masters, and himself, and figured it was Odium's influence. But I never made a connection to the Thrill. Szeth's hate could be a more extreme case of something that's available to everyone on Roshar.

What would it do though? Is it just a bias towards hate, or is the Thrill what's powering Szeth's magic?