Hoid's Breath

[Adamir he/him]

This is all so much easier with Perfect Pitch. -Hoid, Words of Radiance.

 

I can safely assume Hoid has at least two hundred Breaths. But alongside their end-neutral benefits (perfect pitch, perfect color recognition, etc), there is one trait every Awakener has. Color distortion. At thirty Breaths, all colors within a certain radius appear brighter, purer, more radiant. Yellow becomes gold, dark red becomes crimson, deep blue becomes maroon. So why doesn't anyone notice it around Hoid?

 

We could go by the assumption that suppressed Breath still endows its powers without the visible effects; but the Warbreaker prologue  shows us otherwise. Vasher, holding a suppressed Divine Breath, is brought down to regular human senses when he Awakens a straw figure with the rest of his Breath. He loses everything, including Perfect Pitch.

[Sol Invictus he/him]

Vasher could successfully conceal his Divine Breath, and a Divine Breath is automatically 5th Heightening. Hoid strikes me as a very clever, very inventive, very sly man. If Vasher could figure out how to cover up a much greater Divine Breath, then it doesn't surprise me Hoid can cover a "mere" 2nd Heightening.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him]

it is an interesting observation. 

 

I have assumed that he has perfect pitch due to having ~ 200 breaths to reach 2nd heightening. I wonder however if Hoid has figured out how to "modulate" investiture of different types (perhaps through feruchemy) to achieve abilities and effects from other power systems. 

 

if so, could Hoid possibly be using stormlight to emulate the perfect pitch of 2nd heightening? 

 

Or maybe people just don't notice it around him... have to re-read that section to see if there are an distortion clues. 

[Guest]

Kaladin isn't exactly the most observant person, so it could be as simple as "Kaladin didn't notice".

But personally, I think that Hoid simply figured out a way to make Stormlight give temporary Heightenings.

[Kurkistan he/him]

This may be of interest.

[Oudeis he/him]

When Vasher has 50, the guards who presumably live in a world with Awakeners and know it's a thing don't notice his aura. Siri twice is confronted by the doctor or Treledees, and has to check pretty closely to notice their auras. When Vasher takes Vahr's Breath, he comments that Vahr, who has hundreds and hundreds of Breaths (we assume at least 600, since Vasher takes it and is at the Third Heightening) has such an aura, even someone with but a single Breath would notice it.

 

So we know the "blatantcy" threshold is somewhere between 50 and 600(approximately). Presumably, a Shardworld where no one thinks to look for it would be less likely to notice. Between all this and the AMA answer from Kurk's link, it seems a little less surprising.

 

When I actually started to look at the numbers, I was sorta surprised how many Breaths you could have before it actually became ostentatious.

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

Given Hoid's aloof, smug, knowledgeable, and yet, incredibly endearing ways, I believe he knows more about the nature of Investiture and its uses/purpose than we've seen/yet to see. I wouldn't be surprised if he'd managed to work out how to suppress Breaths among other things. On the situation of Vasher at the beginning of Warbreaker, i think given that he was already suppressing his Divine Breath and may not have been able to suppress the normal ones. Do we have any confirmation yet of how long exactly Hoid has been on Nalthis?

[Titan Arum]

Given that Hoid can probably use Allomancy and that there is speculation/roundabout WOB a Coppercloud can block investiture, what if we simply don't see Hoid's color aura because he's constantly burning copper?

 

Seems like a smart thing to do if you have the 17th Shard trying to track you and there are other Worldhoppers around as well, like Vasher, who would recognize a color aura. If I were Hoid, I'd do whatever I could to not be detected, and if copper could help out with this, then by the God Beyond/Unknown God, I'm burning it. 

Edited June 29, 2015 by Titan Arum

[Lindel he/him]

I've always assumed that Hoid uses Lightweaving to cover up the effect of his BioChroma. 

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

Given that Hoid can probably use Allomancy and that there is speculation/roundabout WOB a Coppercloud can block investiture, what if we simply don't see Hoid's color aura because he's constantly burning copper?

 

Seems like a smart thing to do if you have the 17th Shard trying to track you and there are other Worldhoppers around as well, like Vasher, who would recognize a color aura. If I were Hoid, I'd do whatever I could to not be detected, and if copper could help out with this, then by the God Beyond/Unknown God, I'm burning it.

 

Hmm, do not think i saw that WoB about that, do we have actualy confirmation yet

on whether he's actually ingested the lerasium bead? (I know he apparently soothed Shallan in WoR but are we sure he's not just twisting the Allomancy system to suit his needs without actually having bind it to his sDNA? Example; using little shavings of the Lerasium bead and burning them externally somehow to produce the effects of copper? a little far-fetched i know, just a thought

Edited June 29, 2015 by ParadoxSpren

[Sol Invictus he/him]

It's possible to hide one's Breaths inside inanimate objects simply for storage and NOT Awakening, as both Vasher and Vivenna demonstrated. Maybe Hoid keeps it on his person in a "stored" state?

[Titan Arum]

I've always assumed that Hoid uses Lightweaving to cover up the effect of his BioChroma. 

 

As this thread is moving further and further from just being about Warbreaker and Awakening/BioChroma, I'll put my response in spoiler tags. (Maybe this thread should be moved to Cosmere Theories.)

Such an illusion could theoretically cover up the physical aspects of the BioChroma aura, assuming the illusion is sustained with enough investiture, but as far as we know, illusions would only cover up auditory and visual clues. It probably wouldn't be able to mask investiture ripples. In my opinion, burning Copper would be better because he'd be able to mask the actual investiture use, not just play tricks with light and sound.

 

Granted, we don't know the full extent of Yolish Lightweaving abilities, so maybe it too could create an illusion around the actual investiture use and thus span more than just the Physical realm.

 

[Lindel he/him]

A Coppercloud would prevent the Investiture from being detected, but would it up cover the physical signs of BioChroma? If not, he'd need to use both Copper and Lightweaving to cover it completely. And since most individuals don't have inherent "Investiture sensing", the Lightweaving aspect would be the more important of the two in everyday interactions. 

 

Unless, of course, Copperclouds cover up the person's visible Aura as well. I'm not sure on that one.

[Oudeis he/him]

It's possible to hide one's Breaths inside inanimate objects simply for storage and NOT Awakening, as both Vasher and Vivenna demonstrated. Maybe Hoid keeps it on his person in a "stored" state?

 

However just like repressing a Divine Breath, this would result in the person losing the Heightenings and associated advantages.

[Sol Invictus he/him]

True. But consider, Hoid possesses several different kinds of magic, simultaneously. Who knows what weird combinations of magic Hoid is capable of?

[Titan Arum]

True. But consider, Hoid possesses several different kinds of magic, simultaneously. Who knows what weird combinations of magic Hoid is capable of?

You're correct that he does have access to multiple forms of investiture...but I feel like you're grasping at straws if you're implying that this mix of powers will allow him to maintain a Heightening if he stores his breath in something inanimate. That's just not how Awakening works nor would I imagine that any other use of investiture could support.

 

If there are other ways that we actually have evidence for him to do this, then I'm more inclined to believe these instead of using an argument of "who knows it could be anything" to support your initial claim. 

[Sol Invictus he/him]

Ah! Ok! I AM a Cosmere newbie, so I'm nowhere near as Realmatically savvy as Mr Sanderson's more veteran fans.

[Titan Arum]

Ah! Ok! I AM a Cosmere newbie, so I'm nowhere near as Realmatically savvy as Mr Sanderson's more veteran fans.

Apologies if I came off as brusque. That was not my intention! Now that I re-read it, it does seem that my response is a bit harsh. I  myself am not as Realmatically savvy as others either. There are some on the forum who seem to know more than Brandon himself!

[Jondesu he/him]

I can safely assume Hoid has at least two hundred Breaths. But alongside their end-neutral benefits (perfect pitch, perfect color recognition, etc), there is one trait every Awakener has. Color distortion. At thirty Breaths, all colors within a certain radius appear brighter, purer, more radiant. Yellow becomes gold, dark red becomes crimson, deep blue becomes maroon. So why doesn't anyone notice it around Hoid?

Something that hasn't been explained, and may be the key to this, is whether colors are actually distorted/purified around Awakeners, or whether the perception of them is altered, related to Cultivations innate investiture within Nalthians.  Do Drabs see that effect?  Would Jasnah see it if she was able to Edgecall to Hallandren?  If it's not actually altering the colors, but rather the connection to color brought about by their investiture, that effect might not be visible to anyone not from Nalthis (or at least to anyone without Breath).

 

jW

[vertigo 1]

My personal opinion is that you cannot see a breath aura unless you yourself possess a breath of your own.

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

Something that hasn't been explained, and may be the key to this, is whether colors are actually distorted/purified around Awakeners, or whether the perception of them is altered, related to Cultivations innate investiture within Nalthians.  Do Drabs see that effect?  Would Jasnah see it if she was able to Edgecall to Hallandren?  If it's not actually altering the colors, but rather the connection to color brought about by their investiture, that effect might not be visible to anyone not from Nalthis (or at least to anyone without Breath).

 

jW

 

You mean Endowment's innate Investiture?

 

As for your pondering, I always thought it was a mixture of Distortion and Percpetion (akin to something like a Glass Prism) of the colours that changed due to the other people around the Awakeners only noticing an increase in brightness of colour and not really being able to identify the different tones/shades. That is an interesting question; I just took it for granted that anyone could see the effect should they be close to an Awakener, drabs included, but I don't remember if it was stated anywhere in-book but thinking on it now, I believe it could be that it isn't visible to someone without Breath or someone with different (but greater) source of Investment

Any of our current Knights Radiant who have breathed in a large amount of Stormlight perhaps

[Tellingdwar he/him]

I haven't researched this thoroughly, but I seem to remember Hoid wearing black in every appearance since Warbreaker. I always chalked this up to him trying to downplay the aura from his Breaths.

[StormyAngel he/him]

That also gives him something colorful to draw on if he needs to awaken something...

[soulcastJam he/him]

That also gives him something colorful to draw on if he needs to awaken something...

That would be a bit of a giveaway though.  Hoid, usually in black, suddenly in gray...  I think it more likely he would have colorful scarves sewn to the inside of his black outfit.

[Ookla the Absent]

A Coppercloud would prevent the Investiture from being detected, but would it up cover the physical signs of BioChroma? If not, he'd need to use both Copper and Lightweaving to cover it completely. And since most individuals don't have inherent "Investiture sensing", the Lightweaving aspect would be the more important of the two in everyday interactions. 

 

Unless, of course, Copperclouds cover up the person's visible Aura as well. I'm not sure on that one.

Just how good are copperclouds? If they can hide any investiture...

 

That would be a bit of a giveaway though.  Hoid, usually in black, suddenly in gray...  I think it more likely he would have colorful scarves sewn to the inside of his black outfit.

I wonder why more people didn't do that in warbreaker?