Bort Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 In Words of Radiance, there is a Shallan flashback chapter set at a fair Shallan and her family are attending. Just before she meets Hoid, she is in a carriage talking to Wikim, her brother. He rejects her attempts to cheer him up, and this is the paragraph that follows. Shallan bowed her head and then, blinking tears, scrambled out of the carriage. It felt horrible - not just Wikim's words, but the way her emotions betrayed her. She couldn't hold them in. Now, this could well have been the emotions of a fourteen year old girl, or was it Hoid, prodding her emotions to get her to go someplace to be alone for a moment, where he could ambush her? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) I believe she was soothed instead. Remember that at first she felt suspicius, perhaps even afraid of Hoid? He probably soothed her fear so they could talk. This reminds me of Vin feeling something was wrong about Hoid and deciding to not speak with him. Perhaps this hints that something about Hoid is unnatural? He said he was at first an idea and that Fleet was as real as him, wich leads me to my pet theory that Hoid is somehow artificual, like a robot or an illusion given life or was forged from pure investiture into a human form somehow. Edited June 22, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingTheSorrow Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 While i have not read Mitborn yet i did remember Wit saying something odd to Kaladin when they first met, here it is from the wiki: "While introducing himself to Kaladin, Hoid relates that he began life as a thought, a concept, words on a page ... and that this was something he stole, himself." So I'd agree with your theory in that Wit/Hoid has some sort of unnatural/supernatural origin. I wonder though, if he began as a "thought or concept" doesn't that sound somewhat similar to how spren are given existence initially through thoughts/concepts of the physical realm? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 yes, shallan was soothed or rioted by hoid. that was an easy question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sovereign Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) In the flashback scene where Shallan meets Hoid she sees him put metal flakes in a drink and then drink it so, in short, yes it is very likely Hoid used emotional allomancy on her. With that said, I do not think that he is a being of pure investiture or anything like that. In the spoiled chapter of the Liar of Partinel it makes it pretty clear that Hoid is Medius who was the actual Hoid's (who died) apprentice. I believe the strange descriptions of him are more a reference to the illusion of Medius taking up the mantle and calling himself Hoid. The line about stealing himself from a piece of papermay actually be a breaking of the 4th wall where Hoid is saying he was an idea on a paper that turned into a life of its own that was not BS' original intention for him as a character. Edited June 23, 2015 by Iron Eyes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) I have heard that in Liar Hoid was able to make thinking illusions. Is that true? Would be storming funny and kinda tragic if there were three Hoids, one taking the name of the other as he died. Plus, I doubt an important character would break the fourth wall in a mostly serious work. Plus, Brandon probably has completely rewritten Dragonsteel, Liar of Partinel and Lightweaver of Rens, so they are not very relevant to speculation. Edited June 22, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaellok Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 In the flashback scene where Shallan meets Hoid she sees him put metal flakes in a drink and then drink it so, in short, yes it is very likely Hoid used emotional allomancy on her. Not likely, only possible. After all, Hoid wasn't there for her, not initially at least. And we really don't know what sort of personal code of ethics he may have on messing with strange 14 year old girl's heads. Some have no problem soothing or rioting everyone, others find it grossly invasive. If Hoid was there because of Shallan, i would not have these thoughts, because we do know he will do what needs to be done, morality be damned. Since finding her was an accident, tho, i think short of a wob the answer must be much less certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Kay, can I ask everyone that if you're going to post from unpublished works, you put it behind a spoiler tag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blower of the Everstorm Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 Ok, is it not obvious that Wit was there to talk to Shallan? Does he just "conquencidentaly" meet all of the other main characters??? He either has something planned and it trying to put it into motion, or is running from something HUGE, trying to make these character's stall/delay for him. Remember in WoK how in one interlude, there was Purelake ( I think it was called) and the three people where out looking for someone else? There is speculation that those three people are part of a group/organization called The 17th Shard. This group is looking for Wit (remember just speculation) and Wit says hints several times that he is on the run from someone/something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yurisses Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Yes, I think Hoid was here to meet Shallan (though maybe he had other motivations, as well). The 17th Shard wants to keep the status quo, containing Odium. Hoid encourages Radiants to emerge, which somehow due to the rules binding Odium, grants him more power. He wants the Radiants to return and not just contain but defeat Odium. He knows Shallan is a surgebinder, and he came to help her grow, just like he told the story about personal responsibility to Kaladin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blower of the Everstorm Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Well it was quite clear that Wit also soothed Shallan' s emotions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeatherWriter Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Quick reminder that there is NO discussion of unpublished works allowed, in spoiler tags or not, unless those works are publicly available. Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Could it be possible if Kaladin may also have been Rioted/Soothed if one of his few meetings with Hoid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blower of the Everstorm Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Maybe. He was very curious about seeing Wit. Although that could have been his regular emotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 I was thinking more along the lines of when Kaladin was in one of his low moods, and whilst talking with Hoid, his emotions seemed a little less at the forefront and was listening with a clear head. At least, that is how I felt it came off the page anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaellok Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) Ok, is it not obvious that Wit was there to talk to Shallan? Does he just "conquencidentaly" meet all of the other main characters??? He either has something planned and it trying to put it into motion, or is running from something HUGE, trying to make these character's stall/delay for him. Remember in WoK how in one interlude, there was Purelake ( I think it was called) and the three people where out looking for someone else? There is speculation that those three people are part of a group/organization called The 17th Shard. This group is looking for Wit (remember just speculation) and Wit says hints several times that he is on the run from someone/something. Absolutely not obvious at all. Hoid was definitely there for something else, but what it was, I couldn't say. It's possible that he was looking for Shallan or someone like her, but was supremely surprised at meeting her in the way that he did. Also, I'm confused as to when Hoid met with Eshonai or Szeth Read again the section, pertinent bits spoilered below. Tall, slender, and blue-eyed, he had deep black hair without a hint of impurity and wore clothing the same shade. He glanced at Shallan as she stepped into the box. The man started, dropping his cup to the table. he caught it with a swift lunge, keeping it from tipping over, then turned to stare at her with a slack jaw. It was gone in a second, replaced with an expression of practiced indifference. "Clumsy fool!" Father said. ... Shallan turned back to the newcomer. She caught, with a subtle movement, the man slipping something from his coat pocket and moving it up toward the drinks. A shock coursed through Shallan. She raised a hand. Poison-- The newcomer covertly dumped the pouch's contents into his own drink, then raised it to his lips, gulping down the powder. What had it been? Words of Radiance, Brandon Sanderson, Chapter 45 "Middlefest." p.522-523 hardcover edition. Her presence startled him enough that Hoid was visibly caught off guard. And no, it wasn't so he could hide the Allomantic metals in his drink; that came later. In their next meeting, moments later. "I did not expect to find you here." ... "Oh! I assumed he'd sent you here. I mean, that coming to us was your primary purpose." "Turns out that it was..." Hoid said the first and the last lines. Not consecutively, and other bits along with it. And Shallan thought that Hoid meant her actual location, emphasis on the here, rather than the you. The second time, because of Hoid's disingenousness by nature, is a bit hard to tell whether he's being honest or half-truthful. My conclusion? He was looking for proto-Radiants, and did not expect Shallan, aka Heleran's sister, to be one. And keep in mind that he was there with a message from Heleran, so he knew him at least a bit, and likely learned a fair bit about the family on the way or before he arrived. (Why would a son send his father the message "that he has eyes nearby, and is watching." ? That's the type of environment that a knowledgeable sort may expect to find a cracked soul, aka, a proto-Radiant.) I do, however, on re-reading the section, believe that he Soothed Shallan prior to approaching her the second time. Literally the paragraph before her emotions were all asnarl, failing to compose herself. Then Hoid appears, and BAM! better. Hoid may also have Rioted Shallan's brother Wikim, since she sees Wikim smiling when a very short time earlier he was angered/disgusted with her (but torn, as if he couldn't decide whether to be angry/disgusted or pleased.) Emotions, especially when younger, can and absolutely do swing that wildly that quickly--but I think that Hoid played a hand in it when he saw the ways that it could help. Edited July 7, 2015 by kaellok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardcellist Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Relevant WOB in reference to the metal consumed: OUTIS What alloy did Hoid drink? BRANDON SANDERSON Let's just say he was trying to make certain people act the way they wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeatherWriter Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Wasn't there a confirmation that Hoid somehow knows where and when he needs to be in order to see important things? Like, he felt that he needed to be in the area of Shallan's fair, but then he didn't know what he'd find when he got there. I got the same impression from Jasnah's reappearance at the end of the book. He knew where and when he needed to be, but he had no idea what was going to happen. SUDDENLY JASNAH. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaellok Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Relevant WOB in reference to the metal consumed: OUTIS What alloy did Hoid drink? BRANDON SANDERSON Let's just say he was trying to make certain people act the way they wanted to. The question has largely been of who those people might be. Shallan's father seems obvious on first read. Shallan herself is a common theory. Shallan's brother is something I picked up re-reading the section this time. Not knowing who was affected is half the fun; figuring out the answer and later being proven correct is more than all of the fun SUDDENLY JASNAH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardcellist Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) Wasn't there a confirmation that Hoid somehow knows where and when he needs to be in order to see important things? Like, he felt that he needed to be in the area of Shallan's fair, but then he didn't know what he'd find when he got there. I got the same impression from Jasnah's reappearance at the end of the book. He knew where and when he needed to be, but he had no idea what was going to happen. SUDDENLY JASNAH.I got the same feeling, from this quote especially: "I did not expect to find you here." ... "Oh! I assumed he'd sent you here. I mean, that coming to us was your primary purpose." "Turns out that it was..." And the quotes you were looking for: How does he (Hoid) know? He has his ways! (general groans) So a little bit more? Just a little bit more? He may be capable of a little bit of foreseeing of certain events, not what’s going to happen, but he may need ot be in a certain place in a certain time. MIKE COCKRUM Hoid is regularly around when important events take place. How does he know where to go? BRANDON SANDERSON He uses Feruchemy. Part of it that will show up in later books. Edited July 7, 2015 by Shardcellist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blower of the Everstorm Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 I know it's probably not true, but I feel like there is a sort of voice speaking to Wit telling him where to go and when. Almost like Vin' s situation in The Well of Acension (well kinda) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sovereign Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 I know it's probably not true, but I feel like there is a sort of voice speaking to Wit telling him where to go and when. Almost like Vin' s situation in The Well of Acension (well kinda) WoB have confirmed that he gets the sense of where he needs to be a what time through Feruchemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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