Quick Fix Game 8: The Steelway Express

[Bort]

Oops, sorry Phattemer. I hadn't realised you had voted for yourself when I put my vote on your last cycle.

 

I like Renegade's rule change. Voting for yourself, just to get a coin, doesn't help anyone. There are 18 of us left. Maybe four or five Coinshots. That doesn't really leave us much time to find them. Voting for yourself is probably the best way of slowing us down.

 

Vote tallies:

So, Station Two's vote tally:

 

Vote Tally:

Mennet Farrsolin (3): Zane Tevison, Symmer Ghetti, Miss Evyn

Met-al (2): Jain, Grind

Seixa (2): Seixa, Bortholemew the Blind

Locke (2): Neo, Mennet Farrsolin

Penga (1): Senn Conrad-Tekiel

Jain (1): Locke

Vindication (1): Vindication

Doctor McNinja (1): Everton Slade

Neo (1): Doctor McNinja

Nails (1): Nails

Leif Erikeller (1): Leif Erikeller

Dow (1): Dow

Old Wolf (0): Old Wolf

 

 

Station One:

 

The Pooh without a Name (3): Senn Conrad-Tekiel, Silent Man, Old Wolf

Mennet Farrsolin (3): Zane Tevison, Miss Evyn, Locke, Bortholemew the Blind

Leif Erikeller (2): Seixa, Penga

Grind (2): Nails, Met-al

Vindication (2): Grind, Dow

Met-al (2): Mennet Farrsolin, Leif Erikeller

Nails (1): Jain

Dow (1): Symmer Ghetti

Seixa (1): Doctor McNinja

Bortolemew the Blind (1): Neo

 

 

Edit: Finished the post.

 

I count 19 votes at station one, and 18 at station two. This means there are a couple of people (although not too many) that aren't voting.

 

Now, this might be because they are away for a few days - I recall seeing someone post that they were going away. Or, they may have just missed the cycle, but they could also be trying to hide.

 

Station One, who didn't vote? Pooh with a name - He didn't even post a vote to try to save himself. Vindication, and Everton Slade. Everton Slade is Bridge Boy. I think I saw something from his saying he was away for a few days at the start of the game, so I assume that is why he didn't vote.

 

Shallan, was there any reason you didn't vote in the first cycle? Bridge Boy, am I right here? If not, and you were here, how come you didn't vote?

 

Station two. I count twenty voters, but only 18 votes. Penga, and The Silent Man were the ones that didn't vote. Silent Man is dead though, so no chance of finding out what caused him not to vote.

 

I'm going to guess that Old Wolf was kicked from the caboose this cycle, as he voted for himself, but the vote didn't count. Can you confirm this please, Mr Wolf?

 

Penga, how come you didn't vote yesterday?

Edited June 23, 2015 by Bort

[Burnt Spaghetti]

Orlock, I'm curious: In the caboose discussion yesterday, you asked me to respond to some suspicions. I'm willing to do so, however, I've checked, multiple times, and they don't seem to exist. Can you explain what you meant by this? It's just making me wonder if you were in contact with Clanky at all, discussing suspicions which didn't actually make it into the main thread.

[Gamma Fiend]

I, for one, am glad for Ren's update on the Voting Rules. Heck, as a GM, I'd have gone even further and made Votes on yourself COST 1 Coin!

Simply maintaining presence in the thread just to collect coin is only going to help the Eliminators. It doesn't force any discussion, doesn't threaten a lynch, and merits us almost nothing. (except, of course, taking a closer look at those who have voted for themselves)

 

One thing to note real quick, last cycle I was in the Passenger Car with the Gambling Game, and Phattemer was rather quick to take control of the Gambling Game, and while they make sense and it seemed to work out for everyone, he had noted that the 'Rules' that were established were already setup there the Cycle Before, so if he is in that TrainCar again, that would suggest some serious wealth hording on his part, and honestly, the best use I can think of for that is to try and save up for the Assassin, which doesn't seem too helpful in the hands of a Villager right now...

 

 

I have also mentioned in my Train Car so far that I am curious to see if Meta will speak up soon, after being so aggressive the first cycle and not really responding at all at Station 2. We also need to make sure we're not letting lurkers get by this game by barely speaking up (which is just as bad, if not the same as placing a vote on yourself), as the more rapid pace of these games warrants as much participation and discussion as possible, and even letting people slide by for a few cycles without being called into questioning can be quite dangerous, and give them the head start they need.

 

Hopefully some time for RP when I wake up later!

[Bort]

At station two, Meta immediately opened up with his 'great plan' idea in the buffet car (the plan that was shot down by Shallan (Not Seonid like I said yesterday, sorry Shallan)) and brought into the main thread by Adamir. Meta tried to defend his plan towards the end of the cycle, but I don't think anyone was particularly paying attention by then.

 

So, for now, Meta. Mostly for suggesting a plan that would help the Coinshots more than the villagers, and then continuing to defend it when presented with a detailed and thorough analysis of the numbers which said that he was wrong.

 

Edit: I quite like Gamma's suggestion of making a vote for yourself cost a coin.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Bort

[phattemer]

Gamma: I have been in the passenger car all 3 cycles. yes, I probably have some money. Although not as much as you would think, only 8 coins. I began with 1, got it doubled + vote coin, and cycle 2 got my 3 doubled plus 1 vote + 1 post. i have profited 4 coins so far from the passenger car, and hope to get much more. Besides, who cares about the assassin. I can buy a medical kit every turn if I can bet at least 3 coins.

 

Oh, and Bort, this is the second time you've made an "accidental" second vote on me...

Edited June 23, 2015 by phattemer

[Bort]

When was my first accidental vote on you? I hope you don't mean the Elantris thread, as I think we can both agree that that wasn't really accidental

 

My vote last night was placed about 2 minutes before I went out, and it was almost completely random. I did look to see who besides Gamma was responsible for kicking me off the caboose, but they already had a vote (Clanky, I think it was), and I wanted to place a vote on someone who would not be lynched, so I tried to get someone who didn't already have a vote on them. I didn't spot yours, or I would have gone back to the player list to find another name.

[phattemer]

Ah, I see. What I meant was your second SECOND "accidental" vote.

[Bort]

Tell you what, if you can pull yourself away from the gambling, come into the buffet car, and I'll bake you a nice beardnut. How's that for an apology?

Edited June 23, 2015 by Bort

[Shallan]

Bort, while I may have disagreed with parts of Meta's plan, it wasn't a bad plan. It basically was just a mini-lynch in which you can lie and hopefully the suspicious get targeted. The main difference was that I didn't think we would be able to figure out who should be suspicious and who not. So meta wanted 1 target, I wanted multiple targets. I ended up making a "beardnut" for you, Bort, actually.

[Bort]

You couldn't make a beardnut. It's a secret recipe, and you aren't in the Knights Awkward to learn it. You must have made a nearbeardnut. Still, thank you for your offering

 

I was thinking some more on Meta's plan, and I could only see it being feasible if we have someone going to the buffet car we really heavily suspect. Then we can use it to drain the suspect of all their coins (or some of them at least) before we move onto the actual lynch. It's a bit of an unnecessary step, since we could just lynch them anyways, but it would let us retain a few extra coins.

 

Without heavy suspicion on someone though, the buffet car and Meta's plan could be used to screw over anyone.

[Burnt Spaghetti]

Tell you what, if you can pull yourself away from the gambling, come into the buffet car, and I'll bake you a nice beardnut. How's that for an apology?

Enter into the buffet car at the risk of extreme cases of glitter absolutely everywhere except for around Bortholemew (No glitter allowed near beards or beardnuts) I'll try clean up the car before the next group just in case anyone has glitter allergy's

 

Edit:

 

I was thinking some more on Meta's plan, and I could only see it being feasible if we have someone going to the buffet car we really heavily suspect. Then we can use it to drain the suspect of all their coins (or some of them at least) before we move onto the actual lynch. It's a bit of an unnecessary step, since we could just lynch them anyways, but it would let us retain a few extra coins.

 

Without heavy suspicion on someone though, the buffet car and Meta's plan could be used to screw over anyone.

It's a good idea, but probably best for only those really under serious suspicion who we aren't ready to lynch. It would be quite unfortunate if we drained a passenger of their money, and especially if the coin shots were the ones in the buffet car whisking away their money.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Burnt Spaghetti

[Aanwolf]

Bort, yes, I did vote for myself, and I assume I was thrown off the train in the caboose.  Renegade, I know you said it wouldn't be in the write-up, but in the case of a random tie-breaker, it would make sense to me for it to be said at the end of the caboose conversation.  At least, I can't imagine the folks in the caboose not realizing who was thrown off the train.  It probably won't matter anyway, as long as everyone votes, so we can tell who's vote was nullified.

 

I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but here is a summary of the votes from the caboose from the first two rounds (I was there both times).

 

Round 1:

Clanky voted for Bort

Bort voted for Gamma

Burnt Spaghetti voted for Dr. McNinja

leftinspace voted for Gamma

Bort retracted the vote for Gamma*

Aanwolf voted for Bridge Boy

Gamma voted for Bort

 

*Looking back, I'm not sure the retraction was intentional, as it was in the context of demonstrating how to color code a vote and was made after demonstrating with a vote for Grind.

 

 

Round 2:

Bridge Boy voted for Aanwolf

Orlock voted for Burnt Sphaghetti

Aanwolf voted for jasonpenguin

Burnt Sphaghetti voted for Lady Eowyn

Lady Eowyn voted for Bridge Boy

 

Round 1 the votes were often phrased as pokes in the hopes of generating discussion, but no specific suspicions were raised. Round 2 the only poking was Orlock asking Burnt Spaghetti to respond to Clanky's suspicions. Burnt did respond to that, saying she couldn't find the said suspicions, but indicating a general willingness to respond.  There were no other suspicions raised.

 

Looking back on the discussions there, I'm surprised to note that there was so little suspicion discussed there.  However, since there was plenty of it on the main thread, the general motivation may (though no one voiced this) have been to keep those discussions public and use the caboose vote as a way to act on any decisions made by the larger group.  (Well, I guess I don't know how the amount of suspicion compares to normal here as this is my first time playing this game on 17thshard, but it is a healthy amount compared to what I've experienced in family games of mafia. I'm finding active participation in this game to be time-consuming enough without going back to read a bunch of past games)

[Bort]

No, I can quite safely say that Bort's retraction of his vote on Gamma was indeed intentional. Given the outcome of the day, I do find it quite ironic that I specifically removed my vote from Gamma so he wouldn't be kicked from the caboose - I had poke voted him, as Clanky did with me, to get conversation rolling. When I noticed someone else put their vote on Gamma, I removed mine. Then Gamma voted for me, and got me kicked off.

[Elithanathile]

This might be derailing the conversation, (pardon the pun) but I've been thinking. In the first station, both Meta and Adamir were what people said were suspicious. But then everyone removed their votes from them, because they were afraid of jumping on the "bandwagon," or because they weren't sure about their suspicions. It seems to me that they still acted suspicious, and I'm going to place my vote on Meta. We can't say, okay, that person's suspicious, but I won't do anything about it. The reason we have suspicions is to nail down the CC's. If we notice something suspicious, but don't act on it, that pretty much gives the CC's free reign!

[neodymium]

I spent some time going back in time to see what posts Lady Eowyn and Joe made, since they are the ones that have been targeted.  There is almost nothing to go on from their posts, but I will post what I found so that none of you waste any time doing the same.  

 

The Only Joe put a vote on Araris and didn't call anyone else out.  They are both dead, so that doesn't help us much.

 

Lady Eowyn voted for Adamir, but said that she wasn't entirely sure about Adamir.  She also mentioned that Bort could be CC trying to direct suspicion towards Adamir.  

 

I need to go through more posts, but I would like to hear from Leif Erikeller, just one of several people who have not yet posted.  I think it is very important for everyone to be active and posting, because that is an easy way for us to catch CC members slipping up.

[Bort]

I'd also like to hear from Dowanx, Peng, and Alvron, as I am sharing a car with them, but they are being silent.

 

Was anyone in a car with these people in previous cycles, and did they say anything then?

[Peng the Just]

Penga, how come you didn't vote yesterday?

I didn't have another chance to get on. I had a date with my girl.

[Metacognition]

Meta, another poke vote on you. Why did you promote discussion at the start of the game, only to not participate in said discussion? Why have you only talked in the PMs?

 

 

*Met-al will have to take a back seat for the moment*

I only missed one day Jain, give me a break! If you noticed, I posted in the PM yesterday once, at the very beginning of the game and once at the very end. I was gone for the entire rest of the cycle. You think I wouldn't have posted in the thread, at least to get the coin, if I had had the time? 

 

To make up for it, I'm going to spend some time going back through the last few cycles to see if I could find anything, but first: 

 

 

At station two, Meta immediately opened up with his 'great plan' idea in the buffet car (the plan that was shot down by Shallan (Not Seonid like I said yesterday, sorry Shallan)) and brought into the main thread by Adamir. Meta tried to defend his plan towards the end of the cycle, but I don't think anyone was particularly paying attention by then.

 

So, for now, Meta. Mostly for suggesting a plan that would help the Coinshots more than the villagers, and then continuing to defend it when presented with a detailed and thorough analysis of the numbers which said that he was wrong.

 

As I stated in my final PM (which evidently no one was willing to pay attention to) from last cycle, the exact same thing can be said for the main lynch. You can go through the numbers and state that, until the numbers get closer to 50/50, the lynch favors the CCs. That's because numbers can be misleading. If my suspicion of someone goes up from 1pt to 2pts on a scale of let's say 100pts possible, I can still say that my suspicion of that person doubled. Doesn't mean that they're really all that suspicious though, now does it? 

 

The intent of my plan was to make the car's function work for us. By creating a mini-lynch situation, you wind up making people have to make accusations and defend themselves and basically do all the same kinds of things that we try to get people to do in the main lynch. It seems pretty effective out here to help us find out who's who, so why is it all of a sudden a "bad" plan just because it's in a different place? Besides, by forcing the CCs to have to defend themselves on two fronts, that gives them more places to slip up.

 

By just going with the chaos route that the rest of you so badly want to work with, you're wasting a valuable resource (the train car's function) in helping to find the CCs. Now, because of your efforts, any CCs that wind up in that car don't have to actually do anything with the behind-the-scenes stuff related to that car. You've taken the pressure off of them. 

 

As far as whether or not my plan would hurt the villagers or the CCs more, you're comparing one villager to all of the CCs. One villager would be worse off because of it, sure; but the CCs would not be the only ones getting the extra coin. Other villagers would be getting those coins as well. And eventually, we'd hit a CC with the mini lynch and then it's pure profit (well, unless there's two of them in the room, but that's another story) and we take away all of their coins.

 

Why is it important to be trying to drain the CCs of coins? Because of the assassination. Does anyone think that they are not going to try to get the assassination? That they would want to chance it falling into the passenger's hands when they could be making a double kill? I will bet all of the rest of my coins that they wind up getting the assassination today. Sure, they likely aren't going to be spending any coins on anything else other than trying to stay in certain cars (or out of certain cars. I highly doubt that, as long as the CCs have coins that they're ever going to wind up in the Caboose when they have the kill), but that just let's them save up for the one thing they really want: a double (quite possibly, with the lynch, a triple) kill cycle. 

 

So yes, I'm defending my plan because, while not 100% effective and not 100% mathematically sound, it's still far and beyond better than anything anyone else has suggested as ways to use the car to effectively and actually try to help the passengers! 

 

---

 

I'll be back after looking through the last few cycles again, but Phat, I remember feeling that there was something off about you.... Don't worry, I'll give you my reasoning once I've had a chance to make sure that I'm remembering everything correctly. 

Edited June 23, 2015 by Metacognition

[leiftinspace]

First off, I only voted for meta as I wanted coins and he, at that point, had no votes on him. I pulled off my vote when it started to look like he was actually going to be lynched, which I didn't want. As for why I moved it to you, it is suspicious to have a bandwagon first round. Traitors can easily hide in bandwagons and avoid responsibility for lynches. I'm also genuinly curious what ulterior motives you think that action could have.

I guess i can follow that reasoning. I know i just said Meta was "suspicious" without giving more reasoning. My reasoning is that, no offense meta, but it's extremely difficult to tell when he is playing you. Add to that the fact that meta is such a competent player, and I'm kinda surprised the CCs haven't already targeted him, which makes me think he may be one of them. Has he done something in this game that raises suspicions? no more than anyone else. But since i didn't have any other suspicions, that was who i voted for. and i actually didn't realize at the time that peng had already voted for meta.

[leiftinspace]

I need to go through more posts, but I would like to hear from Leif Erikeller, just one of several people who have not yet posted. I think it is very important for everyone to be active and posting, because that is an easy way for us to catch CC members slipping up.

Whaddyamean I haven't been on? I was one of the first ones on this cycle! Granted, the first one was nothing and the second only was an accusation, but i was on.

[dowanx]

I currently don't have any solid suspicions of anyone at the moment so I am going to vote for who my gut is telling me to.  Clanky.  

[neodymium]

Whaddyamean I haven't been on? I was one of the first ones on this cycle! Granted, the first one was nothing and the second only was an accusation, but i was on.

Yeah, I was um......just checking to see if you were paying attention 

Sorry, I was going off of your player name and got confused leftinspace.  Alvron, I haven't seen anything from you yet.

[Aanwolf]

Bridge Boy,

 

While I agree that we should act on suspicions (assuming they are true suspicions), I don't particularly find Meta's behavior suspicious.  If part of the purpose of making accusations and casting votes is to force participation, I'm happy with the amount of pressure Meta is getting and his resulting participation.

 

So, in order to increase some pressure to participate, I will cast my vote on Alvron.  My reasoning is this: Meta and Leif have some pressure on them already and they are responding to it.  Dowanx's vote for Clanky is a "gut feeling" which doesn't give much specific material to respond to in self-defense other than to point out there is no real substance behind the vote.  (Dowanx, if you can find anything that supports your gut feeling, I'd love to hear it.)  I am curious what Meta is going to say about Phat, but will wait for the details on that.  Bort called out three for not posting, and the only one who hasn't responded yet is Alvron.  (Though Dowanx didn't respond to the lack of activity charge, so I really do want to hear more from him on that.) Although it's not strong evidence, inactivity still requires a specific justification, so let's hear it Alvron...  I'll be happy to change my vote if you respond adequately.

 

EDIT: added color formatting for vote

Edited June 23, 2015 by Aanwolf

[Orlok Tsubodai]

Burnt Spaghetti - in answer to your concerns I had incorrectly recalled your accuser to be Clanky - it was in fact Jain, in post #110 in the main thread - but since Adamir's innocence has been proven, I no longer have those concerns.

[Aanwolf]

OK, I just saw neo's accusation which came in while I was typing.  Assuming that is sufficient motivation for Alvron to respond, I'm going to change my vote to Dowanx for the reasons stated in my last post.  Again, I'm happy to change my vote pending a substantial response. Let's get some more conversation.