How quickly do you lose Stormlight? An inconsistency?

[Observer]

What if reverse and full lashings are lesser abilities, and lashings are a main ability? That open the possibility that Kaladin has something other than basic lashings...

[blackmagic3 he/him]

My personal opinion is that either Kaladin is going to tag team Szeth with Adolin to ofset his superior skill or go at him 1 on 1 then bust out the third ideal and maybe bring out an honour blade/shard spear.

[Dahak he/him]

Uhm, who should learn Kal about Szeth's tactics? They're all dead.

 

Sadeas isn't to name one.

[v Sim CO]

Sadeas isn't to name one.

 

I can't picture  Kaladin and Sadeas discussing things like the assassin in white some funny images have come to mind while thinking of this. 

[Arran]

There must have been some guards who observed Szeth's abilities and survived during his assassination of Gavilar, and the Alethi must have done extensive examinations and analyses of all scenes later on to determine exactly what Szeth did - think CSI Alethkar. Also, considering the havoc Szeth has wrought around the world as he killed important leaders, all news/rumors concerning his powers must spread quickly and widely via spanreed. The king of Jah Keved, at least, was expecting Szeth to come for him and had prepared as best as he could.

[blari345]

After that... Szeth might have a superior knowledge of Lashings at the moment, but if Kaladin and Bridge Four can perform enough experiments, that gap will swiftly close. And Kaladin can definitely absorb Stormlight more quickly efficiently than Szeth, which IMO is Kaladin's greatest advantage over Szeth. So, whether or not Kaladin can force away Szeth's Shardblade, I think the best thing he can do is absorb as much of Szeth's Stormlight as he can and force Szeth to withdraw due to unexpected lack of "magical fuel."

Another thing that might happen is that Kaladin and bridge four may come up some clever tricks that Szeth hasen't seen before. They are starting form first principles and have no idea what is considered impossible or not. Szeth seems to be only using lashings in ways that he was trained to. He is very good with them be I don't see him experimenting to find new ways of using his abilities. I can see bridge speculating widely and trying to find what is possible.

[Tarontos he/him]

Another thing that might happen is that Kaladin and bridge four may come up some clever tricks that Szeth hasn't seen before. They are starting form first principles and have no idea what is considered impossible or not. Szeth seems to be only using lashings in ways that he was trained to. He is very good with them be I don't see him experimenting to find new ways of using his abilities. I can see bridge speculating widely and trying to find what is possible.

This fits. Szeth doesn't necessarily even want to fight, why would he look for better ways of killing?

 

Also random question does any one know if lashing works in a plane or pointing towards a center of gravity as in normal gravity or if it possibly makes an entire object act as an attractant like how the thing that Shallan soul-casts into blood acts as one object. attracting towards the cognitive object..

[blari345]

This fits. Szeth doesn't necessarily even want to fight, why would he look for better ways of killing?

 

Also random question does any one know if lashing works in a plane or pointing towards a center of gravity as in normal gravity or if it possibly makes an entire object act as an attractant like how the thing that Shallan soul-casts into blood acts as one object. attracting towards the cognitive object..

From what I have read the Basic lashings seem to work in a plane. i.e. if you lashed an opject upwards then moved it a significant distance to the side it would still be traveling in a parallel course to the first one.

 

Heres another inconsistancey I don't know if anyone has discussed before?

When Szeth lashes an object it seems to to overwrite the natural gravity pull on it. So if he lashes a rock horizontally to the ground it will seem to fall at right angles to standard gravity as it only one force is acting on it. But Szeth uses partial lashings on himself to reduce the natural gravity acting on him allowing him to jump better.

is this a mistake, do lashing act differently when used on people or am I missing something?

[Windrunner he/him]

That's because he's not creating a new force he's simply twisting an old one, making the regular force of gravity pull him to the side or where ever. When he partially lashes himself, the gravity is only partially twisted, so regular the part of regular gravity that wasn't twisted still has an effect on him.

[Azul he/him]

From what I have read the Basic lashings seem to work in a plane. i.e. if you lashed an opject upwards then moved it a significant distance to the side it would still be traveling in a parallel course to the first one.

 

Heres another inconsistancey I don't know if anyone has discussed before?

When Szeth lashes an object it seems to to overwrite the natural gravity pull on it. So if he lashes a rock horizontally to the ground it will seem to fall at right angles to standard gravity as it only one force is acting on it. But Szeth uses partial lashings on himself to reduce the natural gravity acting on him allowing him to jump better.

is this a mistake, do lashing act differently when used on people or am I missing something?

 

From the Ars Arcanum

 

Advanced uses of this type of Lashing would allow a Windrunner to make himself or herself lighter by binding part of his or her mass upward. (Mathematically, binding a quarter of one’s mass upward would halve a person’s effective weight. Binding half of one’s mass upward would create weightlessness.)

Multiple Basic Lashings could also pull an object or a person’s body downward at double, triple, or other multiples of its weight.

 

EDIT:

 

This fits. Szeth doesn't necessarily even want to fight, why would he look for better ways of killing?

 

Also random question does any one know if lashing works in a plane or pointing towards a center of gravity as in normal gravity or if it possibly makes an entire object act as an attractant like how the thing that Shallan soul-casts into blood acts as one object. attracting towards the cognitive object..

If i'm reading your question right this sounds like a reverse lashing, where someone gives a object its own gravitation pull like what Kaladin did with the arrows on the latter bridge runs. Edited April 8, 2013 by Windrunner
Please don't double post, use the multiquote button. Thanks! :)

[blari345]

That's because he's not creating a new force he's simply twisting an old one, making the regular force of gravity pull him to the side or where ever. When he partially lashes himself, the gravity is only partially twisted, so regular the part of regular gravity that wasn't twisted still has an effect on him.

Thanks.

I seem to remember reading that now, it must have slipped my mind. It probably because I have been visualizing lashings as adding a new vector rather than a twisting of the existing one.

 

Can anyone think of ank strange ways the use the lashing that haven't come up in the books yet?

[Tarontos he/him]

 

  

EDIT:

 If i'm reading your question right this sounds like a reverse lashing, where someone gives a object its own gravitation pull like what Kaladin did with the arrows on the latter bridge runs.

Yes and no I was actually referring to both.

 

I couldn't figure out how to phrase the question, this might be better

 

lashings seem to work in planes, is this because walls are treated as singular objects or is the center of gravity just that far away? Also do the normal lashings pull you towards an object or does it just shift gravity?

 

A part of the reason this question arose because of the reverse lashing actually, because they seem to attract to a cognitive whole(I'm assuming that a shield or bridge plank is a cognitive are cognitive identities but to be honest i get confused hear because shouldn't the bridge be seen as a cognitive whole instead of as individual planks unless it is possible to some how target parts of a cognitive whole or possibly have its own cognitive piece)?

[Observer]

It seems more to be where you place your hands, but I guess it could be the cognitive aspect instead. It works well with what we know.

 

Again I have to ask though: What if the reverse lashing and the full lashing are just smaller abilities shared by two orders of the KR, and the main ability of Full Lashings is for Szeth's order only? What if Kaladin has something totally different?

 

Also, imagine Szeth when somebody finally gives him a run for his money. FINALLY somebody who can kill me! That person would be the only human on Roshar Szeth doesn't loathe...

[Havoc]

Also, imagine Szeth when somebody finally gives him a run for his money. FINALLY somebody who can kill me! That person would be the only human on Roshar Szeth doesn't loathe...

 

So long as that said person doesn't then go on to lose...

Imagine how glum Szeth would be if he does defeat the one person who can equal him.

[Observer]

Could be his next move on the character arc...

[Bigtones he/him]

In in a Fight I would pick Szeth just because A. he has a shardblade and B. Knows what he's actually doing although this fight will never come pass and if it does, it will be some stand off that gets broken up before either of them actually passes away.

[Tarontos he/him]

 although this fight will never come pass and if it does, it will be some stand off that gets broken up before either of them actually passes away.

I don't know about that.Also this fight has been heavily foreshadowed plus who could pass up the writing of such an awsome battle sequence. Kalladin could capture Szeth, or Brandon could kill off either of them (that would suck) And I don't know how you break up some one with a shard blade and some one as skilled as Kalladin

 

Good points though but a shard blade is not infallible we have no knowledge of how a shard blade affects someone holding storm light(note that they can not cut Shard Plate the body could naturally have some level of resistance when infused with storm light) , also don't forget Kalladin has all sorts of tests to learn exactly what he can do.

[Leuthie]

I guess "Go kill Dalinar" is heavy foreshadowing.

[blari345]

I am rally hoping that we do get to see a Szeth Kaladin fight but I'm not certian that it is going to happen. Kaladin will also be training the rest of the bridgemen and doing other things, I don't see my Dalinars side 100% of the time.

 

I think theres an outside posibility that whe Szeth atacks Shallan/Jasnah will be one(s) to stop him. They are going to be heading to the shatteres plains as well and WoR seems to be the book where we learn a lot about soulcasting. (I'm assuming that someone holding stormlight can't be affected or it would be a very short fight.)

[Observer]

Jasnah's in for a shock when her lightning bolts of death don't insta-kill Szeth

 

I severely doubt that Szeth, a character with such potential, will be killed off. I also doubt Kaladin will die for similar reasons. So the fight between them probably won't happen, as there isn't really a good way to disable Szeth and the Alethi would probably just kill him on the spot for killing Gavilar. More likely, Dalinar is without Kaladin and gets killed.

 

Unless they decide to use Szeth like they used the voidbringers...

[Morsk he/him]

I just had a nasty thought. There are 6 levels of power depending on how many oaths you've spoken, with Kaladin at 2 and Szeth at 0. It's already enough that many people give Kaladin the advantage, but how much worse is it going to be at 5 vs. 0? Szeth would become irrelevant. He needs a way to power up too.

 

So say they're close to capturing him, or have run him out of Stormlight or something. Then Odium chooses him as a champion, and he gets an explosion of light like Kaladin did when speaking the Second Ideal. Heck, what if Odium is Szeth's spren already? Instead of being guided to protect and lead, he's being guided to hate. But regardless of mechanism, there has to be some way for Szeth to power up, and the assassination attempt is the worst possible time.

[blari345]

I'm not convinced that Kaladins power will increase by the same amount as he says the rest of the oaths. The difference between 1 and 2 could be explained by the first oath being for all orders with the second the first of the order specific ones.

[Kurkistan he/him]

I haven't read the whole thread, so I apologize if someone has already given proof or perfect argumentation, but Brandon just confirmed that Kaladin holding stormlight longer than Szeth is a thing.

 

Source

Is Kaladin naturally stronger than Szeth in using Stormlight? Szeth can only hold onto it for a few minutes, but Kaladin has been shown to hold onto it for much longer. Or does it have to do with Kaladin having a spren?

4) Ah, so you all noticed that, did you. Glad you did. I have like a dozen things I nearly posted here, but all of them spoil a scene in Words of Radiance. So I'll just zip it for now.

[dj26792 he/him]

That sort of confirms that Szeth will arrive and therefore presumably confront Dalinar in WoR, which I always assumed but wasn't confirmed and has been the subject of some speculation

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

Now I'm wondering if Szeth knows that his method of accessing the Surges is different from a Windrunner Radiant.  He doesn't say a whole lot one way or another on it in his PoV chapters in WoK.  I still maintain that it comes from his Shardblade, there's no huge indicator, but 5 or 6 little things that make it seem likely.

 

1. Turns his eyes "Sapphire" when summoned, the associated gem/color of WIndrunners.

2. Different appearance than other Shardblades.  Shorter, double-edged.

3. Taravangian calls it "a monstrosity of a Shardblade".

4. WoK-Prime Szeth analogue had neither a Shardblade nor Windrunner abilities.

5. WoB explicitly tells us that Szeth is getting his powers from something other than a Nahel Spren, and the Blade is the most prominent candidate.

 

It's possible that Szeth thinks his method was what all the Radiants used in the past, it would hardly be the biggest misapprehension we've seen in the Stormlight Archive so far.

 

After that AMA, I think the chance of a Szeth/Kaladin fight in WoR went from "Likely" to "Nearly Guaranteed".