The Honor Spren Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) Looking at the beginning of this topic when: Thanks. In that case, might I request no one else respond to this topic, unless you have something extraordinarily meaningful to add to the conversation? Theory proven wrong, how about we let it die? How long have you been here? You should have known better than to ask people on the 17TH SHARD to let a theory die. Oh, and kaellok I'm sorry about that down vote to your post above. Meant to upvote it, but the precision on my iPod is really bad and I can't undo it. Sorry Edited June 9, 2015 by The Honor Spren 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 Upvoted him to make up for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 ...and a second to give him the upvote you intended to give him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Honor Spren Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 "Can Shardholders bear mortal(ish) children" is one of the first questions on my personal list. I'm still working on a way to phrase it that will avoid ambiguous answers. Frankly, direct shardic intervention seems capable of just about anything, so on balance I would assume the default answer is yes, especially in the case of the Shard meant to cultivate things. I suppose it's possible Shshshsh's identity isn't actually important, but at this point it's been built up so much that "oh she's just some nameless pretty foreigner" feels like it would be a let-down. Seems like a reasonable assumption though why would Cultivation suddenly decide to marry and have children is lost to me. I believe the story of Shshshsh being Shalash is more plausible as it does make sense that, after being completely disillusioned about life, she made the bold move to have a family.... which she gave up when the first sign of an upcoming Desolation started to appear in order to protect her young sons. It would also explain why she seemed so unstable and other Heralds though she was getting worst: she gave up her children! This would not be a bad plot point and it would reconcile me with having to read her POV instead of her son. We know next to nothing of Shshshshsh.... We know Navani thought her calm, likable and dumb, a judgment I refrain myself from putting too much faith in as Navani has the tendency to see anyone not interested in the working of fabrials as dumb... We also know she made the drawings for Adolin's Plate and Shallan approved of them which indicates a potential talent towards arts: very consistent with Shalash, the Herald of Lightweaving. Is she important? I dunno. I could see why she would be, but there is danger in making everything too coincidental... but it would explain why Zahel took interest in the Kohlin kids. I suspect he knew about Renarin as he knew about Kaladin. Adolin? Probably out of pity. The boy is not a Radiant: he'll die in the upcoming Desolation. His only chance of survival is skill. I bet Zahel knew that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 The nightwatcher isnt cultivation! Unless you are just making another theory based on mine, but with cultivation :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 The nightwatcher isnt cultivation! Unless you are just making another theory based on mine, but with cultivation :| ? The pet theory is that Shshshsh was Cultivation... nothing to do with the boon/curse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 damnation. Last page I posted my half joke half serius pet theory that shshsh was the nightwatcher and thought you were speaking about it. As I said, this is getting confusing. Maybe it is better to start a new thread about who is shshsh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tri Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Another theory, but the more I think about it doesnt sound likely.... His boon was the ability to protect his family via his battle prowess. Truly become "blackthorn." The thrill overtakes him so much that he almost has a supernatural ability that no other man possesses. Shows when he matches muscles with the chasmfiend...etc. But the curse was him forgetting his wife completely. So in his effort to wanting to protect his family...he loses complete memory of his wife. Again -- I know he was the blackthorn before his wife died, but what if he truly wanted to live up to the hype... Feel free to tear this apart!!! Edited July 17, 2015 by Tri 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Another theory, but the more I think about it doesnt sound likely.... His boon was the ability to protect his family via his battle prowess. Truly become "blackthorn." The thrill overtakes him so much that he almost has a supernatural ability that no other man possesses. Shows when he matches muscles with the chasmfiend...etc. But the curse was him forgetting his wife completely. So in his effort to wanting to protect his family...he loses complete memory of his wife. Again -- I know he was the blackthorn before his wife died, but what if he truly wanted to live up to the hype... Feel free to tear this apart!!! Okay, I'll try to tear this apart. There are mainly two points: 1) Gavilar died and Dalinar was not capable of protecting him. 2) People often say, that Dalinar is weaker than the Blackthorn he was before. My personal theory is, that Dalinar asked for Strategic or Tactical skill. In his early days he never seemed to be a good tactican, he only fought like a wild axehound. Later he seemed more like the calm, planning General. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Another theory, but the more I think about it doesnt sound likely.... His boon was the ability to protect his family via his battle prowess. Truly become "blackthorn." The thrill overtakes him so much that he almost has a supernatural ability that no other man possesses. Shows when he matches muscles with the chasmfiend...etc. But the curse was him forgetting his wife completely. So in his effort to wanting to protect his family...he loses complete memory of his wife. Again -- I know he was the blackthorn before his wife died, but what if he truly wanted to live up to the hype... Feel free to tear this apart!!! Well, as you said, he was the Blackthorn before he went to the Nightwatcher, so it kinds of kill the theory to begin with don't you think? However, I've got another one that is more inline with your thoughts... Shshshshsh died a brutal death. It could one of the kids was a witness or the grim truth was harsh on them... In any advent, Dalinar asked to have the memory of his wife's cause of death to be erase, completely, in order to protect his young sons from the truth. As a result, he forgot everything about her... I am not too keen on it because the boon and the curse end up being about "forgetting" and it seems to violate the general idea of how the Nightwatcher proceeds, but it is closer to your personal assumption and it is inline with the timeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Also, we have no idea what manner of abilities the other Heralds possess. Perhaps there is some skill Shallash could use to change her own appearance, and to bear children matching her persona. With the tiny, tiny little bit we know about Heralds, it cannot actually be ruled out. Note: I don't personally think it was Shallash, though from he phrasing of Zahel's sentence I'm not ruling out a Herald. Perhaps Battar, the Truthwatcher's patron might be more apt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 My personal theory is, that Dalinar asked for Strategic or Tactical skill. In his early days he never seemed to be a good tactican, he only fought like a wild axehound. Later he seemed more like the calm, planning General. I like this idea, though my own personal take is that Dalinar's strategic skill developed from his bond with the Stormfather. The Bondsmiths were "pious/guiding" after all, and strategic skill seems like a neat gift, like Shallan's Memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Perhaps Battar, the Truthwatcher's patron might be more apt? Battar is the Patron of the Elsecallers. The Truthwatchers' patron is Paliah. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexlongwell Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Ok so love his books, have not read all of them yet but intend to. I have come here every once and awhile to read stuff and had a though on this topic, well not on the op's topic but who Dalinar's wife was. What if she was Vivenna, who followed vasher to Roshar, fell in love with Dalinar, had his children, and that's why he trains them. Just a though and probably completly wrong hah! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwelfthOfSnackTime Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Ok so love his books, have not read all of them yet but intend to. I have come here every once and awhile to read stuff and had a though on this topic, well not on the op's topic but who Dalinar's wife was. What if she was Vivenna, who followed vasher to Roshar, fell in love with Dalinar, had his children, and that's why he trains them. Just a though and probably completly wrong hah! Beat me to the punch by a few hours SMH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesomness Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 Ok so love his books, have not read all of them yet but intend to. I have come here every once and awhile to read stuff and had a though on this topic, well not on the op's topic but who Dalinar's wife was. What if she was Vivenna, who followed vasher to Roshar, fell in love with Dalinar, had his children, and that's why he trains them. Just a though and probably completly wrong hah! Ha! I had the same thought when I saw that quote from Rasher! Navani thinking Dalinar´s wife was dumb supports the theory! I don´t think it´s like that anyway... I always thought he asked to forget his wife, but maybe because she betrayed him, or something nasty happened. I´m 80% sure the books never say what happened to Shshshs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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