Theory: Dalinar's Boon Was To Forget (Warning: Baseless Speculation)

[Adamir]

While it doesn't always happen, most Nightwatcher curses are in some way related to the boon. So that got me thinking; when did Dalinar visit the Nightwatcher? My theory is that Dalinar, broken by the guilt of being drunk and useless when Gavilar was assassinated, visited the Nightwatcher and asked for those memories to be removed. The Nightwatcher complied.

 

Evidence

 

1. Dalinar never has direct memories of that night, all he knows about it is what other people tell him.
2. It could be considered an appropriate curse for Dalinar to forget his wife's name; a bad memory removed, but a good memory goes with it.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Adamir

[Emerald101]

I highly doubt this, mostly because of what Dalinar realizes at the end of WoR:

 

 

he knew a truth he should always have known.

If I'd been there, on that night, awake intsead of drunk and asleep . . . Gavilar would still have died. I couldn't have beaten this creature. I can't do it now, and I couldn't have done it then. I couldn't have saved him. It brought peace, and Dalinar finally set down that boulder, the one he'd been carrying for over six years.  (WoR, hardback first edition, Pg. 1022)

(bolding mine)

[Adamir]

I highly doubt this, mostly because of what Dalinar realizes at the end of WoR:

 

(bolding mine)

Thanks. In that case, might I request no one else respond to this topic, unless you have something extraordinarily meaningful to add to the conversation? Theory proven wrong, how about we let it die?

[maxal]

Dalinar went to the Nightwatcher about 8 years ago, so 2 years before Galivar was assassinated. We have a quote for it where he states he had to leave Elhokar alone because he was busy making a mysterious trip to the "West".

 

My thoughts are Dalinar did not ask to forget anything, but he instead ask to be cured of his sickening jealousy towards his brother. Dalinar refers to an event, which happened about 8 to 10 years ago, where his jealousy nearly forced him to kill his own brother, but he managed to stop himself in time. I feel this event was an eye opener and since Dalinar could not get rid of the feeling by himself, he went to the Nightwatcher. His curse was to forget his wife. 

 

We have numerous quotes pertaining how jealous and envious Dalinar has been of his older brother. He goes as far as not understanding why Renarin did not take it out on Adolin, thinking it unseemly his younger son would be mad jealous of his older brother. 

 

We also have numerous quotes on how destroyed he was by his death... Why? He had been hoping for Galivar's death for years, so wy did it break him? Because at that time, he had been cured of his jealousy. He had started to love his brother again, but I doubt Dalinar really loved Galivar before. You can't really love the older perfect sibling that stole the woman you loved.

[apepi]

I always thought he wished for him to forget about his love for Navani or something like that.

[DreamEternal]

WARNING: stupid baseless joke theory incoming:

Remember the WoR chart so often called the voidbinding chart? It isn't. Actualy, it is the cultivation chart! The blond woman in it is the Nightwatcher. Who else is blond? Shshshsh! Coincidence? I think not. Dalinar asked to find a woman he loved more than Navani, and the Nightwatcher decided to take him for a date, since she has a soft spot for legendary conquerors trying to become better people. His curse was to forget she was the Nightwatcher and think she died, fake corpse and everything, if they broke up.

Edited June 7, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern

[Zea mays]

But he never did get that wish. He still loved Navani deeply from the very beginning of his part in WOK.

Sorrt Admir, but the mystery of Dalinars boon and curse is a fascinating topic. Much is there to be speculated and posted - and most of us will probably be proven wrong eventually.

Whether forgetting his wife was the boon or the curse has been left pointedly vague (ruddy Sanderson).

My guess is that Dalinar will eventually have to face the truth: his brother was not the flawless paragon he wants to remember him as. Now that he is over the guilt over Gavilar's death, this will be the next step. I do not think his memories of Gav were magically altered though. I think he just always wished to believe the best of his older brother.

Edited to add my own out-of-left-field theory: Dalinar's wife was Shai. Then she re- forged herself out of that existence so that her family members could become radiants. Dalinar asked NW to know only the real truth about his wife - so now he knows nothing about her. How's that for convoluted.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Zea mays

[DreamEternal]

Shai is the Nightwatcher. The Diagram great plot is actualy to turn all of Roshar into a soulstamp that rewrites Odium into being trapped in a shardpool, so she can soulstamp Odium into another, more benevolent intent.

[maxal]

But he never did get that wish. He still loved Navani deeply from the very beginning of his part in WOK.

Sorrt Admir, but the mystery of Dalinars boon and curse is a fascinating topic. Much is there to be speculated and posted - and most of us will probably be proven wrong eventually.

Whether forgetting his wife was the boon or the curse has been left pointedly vague (ruddy Sanderson).

My guess is that Dalinar will eventually have to face the truth: his brother was not the flawless paragon he wants to remember him as. Now that he is over the guilt over Gavilar's death, this will be the next step. I do not think his memories of Gav were magically altered though. I think he just always wished to believe the best of his older brother.

 

Which reinforced my thoughts he asked to be cure of his sickening jealousy towards Galivar. In order to do so, the Nihtwatcher simply reinforced every single his inner positive beliefs Dalinar had about his brother and diminished the negative ones. Dalinar's boon therefore was to always see his brother in a positive light, hence his tremendous difficulties in seeing his failures and the love transfer he did towards Elhokar which is, again summarized by an incapacity to see his misgivings. 

 

It is not the memories were altered, he still has them, but his boon makes him take heed to only the good ones and negates the bad ones.

 

In any advent, I do believe Dalinar will need to re-evaluate his unconditional love towards his brother and rationalize his memories of him. He'll also need to stop excusing every single one of Elhokar's mistakes and stop praising him for a greatness he has yet to achieve and finally he'll need to learn to be more flexible. His "do or die" approach to his moral code is too strict. He needs to realize he will never convince the Highprinces to endorse it because it is just TOO intense, TOO harsh and it does not allow any leniency. Unfortunately, I think Dalinar will need to lose his son or come close to losing him to realize this. 

Edited June 7, 2015 by maxal

[Adamir]

Whether forgetting his wife was the boon or the curse has been left pointedly vague (ruddy Sanderson).

That was my original theory - that Dalinar had asked to forget his wife.

[maxal]

That was my original theory - that Dalinar had asked to forget his wife.

 

The most common theory is that he asked to erase the pain of losing his wife, but he was cursed with complete forgetfulness. I doubt he would have asked to forget everything about his wife... I am thus leaning towards believing it was his curse. 

 

However, I do not believe his boon related to his wife, but to his brother. Let's not forget he went to the Nightwatcher a few years after her death, quite a long time to wait to ask to erase an unbearable pain.

[Oudeis]

...and the Nightwatcher decided to take him for a date...

 

There is a scene where Zahel tells Kaladin, of Renarin, "That boy is the son of the most powerful-" and is then cut off.

 

If he simply meant Dalinar, there's not actually a reason, narratively, for that sentence to have been cut off. There's nothing surprising about Dalinar being powerful, and any number of ways that sentence could have ended to mean his father. Now, it could just have been cut off to leave a false trail, or just to troll us. Or it could be there was a qualifier coming. "The most powerful woman... born this century," or something else that would preclude it being an actual Shard.

 

Nevertheless, I have for some time now, and plan to continue doing so, sit here quietly and wait for any hints in the third books to confirm or deny this little pet theory.

[maxal]

There is a scene where Zahel tells Kaladin, of Renarin, "That boy is the son of the most powerful-" and is then cut off.

 

If he simply meant Dalinar, there's not actually a reason, narratively, for that sentence to have been cut off. There's nothing surprising about Dalinar being powerful, and any number of ways that sentence could have ended to mean his father. Now, it could just have been cut off to leave a false trail, or just to troll us. Or it could be there was a qualifier coming. "The most powerful woman... born this century," or something else that would preclude it being an actual Shard.

 

Nevertheless, I have for some time now, and plan to continue doing so, sit here quietly and wait for any hints in the third books to confirm or deny this little pet theory.

 

Whereas I will agree it is an interesting idea, why would Shshshsh be the most important women born this century if that is what you are suggesting? I had toyed with the idea she may have been Shalash in disguise which would make both Renarin and Adolin the children of a Herald, but the evidence in the matter is thin. There is also the fact the one physical description I recall of he did not match Shshshsh whom had to have been both pretty and golden haired, but again this is rather thin evidence as she may have altered her physic. 

 

As for Zahel... He is a special one and I have long wondered why he showed such interest in Dalinar's sons, though it is Adolin he initially trained and Renarin, he only took because Adolin made him to... It so makes Zahel the only Cosmere related character to have shown the glimmer of interest into Adolin as a person: I have always wondered why.

[Oudeis]

Whereas I will agree it is an interesting idea, why would Shshshsh be the most important women born this century if that is what you are suggesting?

 

It isn't what I'm suggesting. That was an example. I'm saying, since we don't have the second half of the sentence, there could be any number of qualifiers he was going to add.

 

Basically, "she's the most powerful-" on Roshar, unqualified, more-or-less has to mean Cultivation. There's no "she" who can be considered more powerful on the planet by any metric. This is the reason for my pet theory. I was simply saying, it's entirely possible that the rest of the sentence would have disqualified Cultivation, which is why the theory isn't at all solid.

 

Also, we have no idea what manner of abilities the other Heralds possess. Perhaps there is some skill Shallash could use to change her own appearance, and to bear children matching her persona. With the tiny, tiny little bit we know about Heralds, it cannot actually be ruled out. Note: I don't personally think it was Shallash, though from he phrasing of Zahel's sentence I'm not ruling out a Herald.

[Zas678]

If that phrase is not referring to Dalinar, I'd say that it'd refer to a Herald, not Cultivation. Hoid would consider Cultivation a she- he knew her, and talked with her (maybe even more?). 

 

But Vasher only knows Cultivation as a god- not as a woman. I would say that most worldhoppers would be hardpressed to consider Shards by gender. It's possible, certainly, but I don't consider it likely. Sure, they might refer to her as "she", but I bet if you ask the Seventeenth Shard who the most powerful woman is in Roshar, they're likely to say a Herald, not Cultivation.

 

I do like the "jealousy of Gavilar" boon. It seems fitting- like the kind of thing that you wouldn't think of, but once it mentions, it makes sense.

 

The other theory I've heard was Renarin as a boon/curse. So Dalinar goes to the Nightwatcher to ask her to heal Reanarin/make him forget his wife, and the Nightwatcher makes him forget his wife/curses Renarin. 

 

But I think that I like the Jealousy of Gavilar boon. It seems best. 

[Tyson]

I'm still convinced the boon was to forget his wife.

 

If it was the curse, what would be the point of all the mystery? Sanderson is using Shshshsh and Dalinar's memory lapse to hide an important plot point. A twist in the tale. Why would he go through the trouble to erase the name and memory of just a regular woman, albiet the Blackthorn's wife. 

 

Dalinar knows his curse, he says this. But not once in his chapters does he let the reader assume that the curse was forgetting his wife. As a frequent writer myself, I can 110% tell you that Brandon has made a considerable effort not to let this happen. It would be easy for a writer to let Dalinar think about forgetting his wife and associate it with the nightwatchers curse. Sanderson has kept the two lines of thought seperate.

  

For that thread of the story to progress it is only logical to assume that Dalinar asked to forget his wife. Why is another question.

 

Betrayal? Heartbreak? To hide another plot?

[maxal]

It isn't what I'm suggesting. That was an example. I'm saying, since we don't have the second half of the sentence, there could be any number of qualifiers he was going to add.

 

Basically, "she's the most powerful-" on Roshar, unqualified, more-or-less has to mean Cultivation. There's no "she" who can be considered more powerful on the planet by any metric. This is the reason for my pet theory. I was simply saying, it's entirely possible that the rest of the sentence would have disqualified Cultivation, which is why the theory isn't at all solid.

 

Also, we have no idea what manner of abilities the other Heralds possess. Perhaps there is some skill Shallash could use to change her own appearance, and to bear children matching her persona. With the tiny, tiny little bit we know about Heralds, it cannot actually be ruled out. Note: I don't personally think it was Shallash, though from he phrasing of Zahel's sentence I'm not ruling out a Herald.

 

Can Cultivation have children? I guess we do not know... As for the Heralds, yes they could have altered their physic which is why I haven't ruled out Shalash... I somehow prefer the idea Shshshsh was simply a pretty foreigner, nothing more, nothing less, but I am not discarding the idea she was more. As for Zahel's phrasing, I do agree it was suspicious. He could have been referring to several things at once, so it is hard to draw any conclusions.

 

 

The other theory I've heard was Renarin as a boon/curse. So Dalinar goes to the Nightwatcher to ask her to heal Reanarin/make him forget his wife, and the Nightwatcher makes him forget his wife/curses Renarin. 

 

 

This one has been stated a few times, but I do not think it is it. Renarin was sick since childhood so it does not make sense for Dalinar to have waited until he grew as a teenager to go seek the help of the Nightwatcher. Also, it was a poor bargain as Renarin is still sick... Imo, I have heard people theorizing he was dying and his current sickness was a lesser evil, but I somehow do not think this is how the boon/curse works. If Dalinar asked for Renarin to be healed and ended forgetting his wife, then Renarin should be all means be... healed. If Dalinar asked for Renarin to be healed and he was partly healed, then it sounds too much like a curse... Yes, your son will be healed from XYZ, but he will retain ABC. 

 

I also somehow leaning towards believing the boon/curse are linked. For example, Dalinar asked to be cured of his jealousy towards Galivar, but lost all memories of his wife. He gained a loved one, but lost another. He traded his negative memories from his brother to his positive memories from his wife, which ended being everything as he did love her. It fits.

 

However, Dalinar asking for Renarin to be healed and ended up forgetting his wife, I fail to see the link.

 

I am glad though I managed to convinced a few people. This is a rather wild theory, but the timing just works.

 

 

 

For that thread of the story to progress it is only logical to assume that Dalinar asked to forget his wife. Why is another question.

 

Betrayal? Heartbreak? To hide another plot?

 

I do not think he asked to forget his wife, especially given the time frame we have been given. However you ask why would Brandon use such a plot point? Why would it relevant he asked to be cured of his sickening jealousy towards his brother? Because how Dalinar views Galivar is important to the story. It matters that Dalinar should follow Galivar's lead which may not have happened had he still resented his brother.

 

Why make Dalinar forget his wife? How is that relevant to the story? It may be relevant if his wife ends being someone important as Oudeis suggests, but it may also be important for other reasons: it may matter to his son. There is just too much foreshadowing with Adolin keeping his mother's necklace as a keep stake while talking to his unnamed Edgedancer's Blade whose second oath happens to be about remembering the forgotten... I am not convinced Brandon will go anywhere with Adolin as a character anymore, but should he wished to, that is a storming good plot and it makes Dalinar forgetting his wife very relevant.

[DreamEternal]

People, the nightwatcher isn't cultivation herself, but a powerful spren in the form of a woman holding a big part of cultivation's power, like the stormfather was to honor before he died.

Edited June 9, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern

[Zas678]

Plus Maxal, that instant, of potentially coming so close to betraying Gavilar out of power/jealousy, than deciding not to is powerful.

 

I can see it- Dalinar goes to the kitchen to get his brother's drink for a meeting they have. He's found a poison that will work that should get past his poison tester. He walks, and in the path, his moment comes- he begins to pour the poison in. But no- he can't. He's his brother. He shouldn't be like this. But he can't handle the power imbalance, how everything always goes to Gavilar- the throne, the loyalties, even Navani. He can't live with the jealousy. So how to get rid of it? 

 

The Nightwatcher. Go to the Nightwatcher- whatever her price is, whatever the sacrifice, it has to be better than fratricide. So he goes- and loses his wife. 

 

That has the potential to be a very powerful moment- if a really good writer's writing it. Good thing Brandon's at the helm!

[maxal]

Plus Maxal, that instant, of potentially coming so close to betraying Gavilar out of power/jealousy, than deciding not to is powerful.

 

I can see it- Dalinar goes to the kitchen to get his brother's drink for a meeting they have. He's found a poison that will work that should get past his poison tester. He walks, and in the path, his moment comes- he begins to pour the poison in. But no- he can't. He's his brother. He shouldn't be like this. But he can't handle the power imbalance, how everything always goes to Gavilar- the throne, the loyalties, even Navani. He can't live with the jealousy. So how to get rid of it? 

 

The Nightwatcher. Go to the Nightwatcher- whatever her price is, whatever the sacrifice, it has to be better than fratricide. So he goes- and loses his wife. 

 

That has the potential to be a very powerful moment- if a really good writer's writing it. Good thing Brandon's at the helm!

 

Oh I agree. I would make for a powerful scene, but I would rule out poison. The Blackthorn does not do poison and the little insight we have got on this scene suggests something more dramatic. I thus imagine Dalinar standing outside his brother's tent with Oathbringer in hand, firmly decided to end it once and for all. Why then? I do not know. Perhaps something happened to prompt Dalinar into action, but

he does state the jealousy got so strong he nearly acted on it. 

 

I think he was then scared and decided it had to stop but could not figure out how, so he went to the Nightwatcher. It was the cowardly way to deal with his issues and I am sure Dalinar is well aware of it.

 

I am sure his sons will find out about it... They have to. It could play so well into a powerful plot involving both Dalinar and Adolin (as I suspect Renarin has known for a while and the whole mother thing has been tied to Adolin more, however since Renarin is a more important character, Brandon could play it on his angle), if Brandon is willing to play forward Adolin as a character, which he may not, but should he want to: he's got all the material for something great. Especially if it turns out the fandom suspicion Galivar was not such a good fellow turns out being true.......

[Oudeis]

Can Cultivation have children?

 

"Can Shardholders bear mortal(ish) children" is one of the first questions on my personal list. I'm still working on a way to phrase it that will avoid ambiguous answers. Frankly, direct shardic intervention seems capable of just about anything, so on balance I would assume the default answer is yes, especially in the case of the Shard meant to cultivate things.

 

I suppose it's possible Shshshsh's identity isn't actually important, but at this point it's been built up so much that "oh she's just some nameless pretty foreigner" feels like it would be a let-down.

[kaellok]

My timeline knowledge for some things is a little bit wobbly.  Mostly Dalinar-related, really.  But anyway.  I was reading this thread this afternoon, and a thought struck me:

 

Could Dalinar have asked for help to become a good/worthy man?  And the curse is that he forgot his wife.  Of course, that gets into larger issues like, "That means that his boon didn't happen until 2 years later when his brother was assassinated--and that the boon was his brother's assassination."

 

...I like baseless speculation, and seeing where it can take you.  Because those places are fascinating.  (And sometimes super-dark.  Other times, you can see clearly--and really, really wish you couldn't because those clouds have teeth and they are coming right for you!)

[Ascendant Warrior]

During my last reread of Way of Kings and Words of Radiance, I was convinced that Dalinar had asked to forget his wife.  I have no reasoning to why he would, nor do I have any ideas of what the curse would be, but that was the distinct impression I got.

[Guest]

"Can Shardholders bear mortal(ish) children" is one of the first questions on my personal list. I'm still working on a way to phrase it that will avoid ambiguous answers. Frankly, direct shardic intervention seems capable of just about anything, so on balance I would assume the default answer is yes, especially in the case of the Shard meant to cultivate things.

I suppose it's possible Shshshsh's identity isn't actually important, but at this point it's been built up so much that "oh she's just some nameless pretty foreigner" feels like it would be a let-down.

Probably not while they hold the Shard, since the Power literally vaporizes their body.

Though as TLR shows us, there's nothing stopping Shardpower from building a new body. So perhaps when Cultivation went into hiding she did it in a mortal body?

[DreamEternal]

People, the Nightwatcher ISN'T Cultivation! She is more like the Stormfather, except the shard she is a splinter of still exists and she is described in a way that makes her seem more humanlike.