Edgedancer he/him Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 With all the mental decay he's suffered prior to this storyline, the shock of seeing her not die would probably break him. Or maybe they're genetically modified cows (like the bovine version of the chickens an urban legend said McDonalds uses) with no eyes, teeth, or legs. And then he drank a coke. Or they are made from Cuthullu meat.
TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her Posted June 15, 2015 Author Posted June 15, 2015 And then he drank a coke. Or they are made from Cuthullu meat. Would the Coke restore his mind, or would he just be insane but good? Or maybe they're from a parallel dimension where veganism is so common that tofu looks, smells, and tastes exactly like the meat it's designed to imitate.
Voidus Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 Big Als burgers are pulled from a dimension where people are Sausage McMuffins.In this universe, Big Al is the most evil and homicidal Epic the world has ever known. 1
TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her Posted June 15, 2015 Author Posted June 15, 2015 Big Als burgers are pulled from a dimension where people are Sausage McMuffins. In this universe, Big Al is the most evil and homicidal Epic the world has ever known. Or...or they're just made of the same filler Burger King uses. Or Edgedancer's fire breathing cows.
Jo and the Bush all/any Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 Just so you know, I have very limited internet access until next sunday, and I won't be following the question thread very closely. In my headcannon, big al was pulling them from various points in the past. 3
Edgedancer he/him Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 Would the Coke restore his mind, or would he just be insane but good? Or maybe they're from a parallel dimension where veganism is so common that tofu looks, smells, and tastes exactly like the meat it's designed to imitate. Lightwards the true chaotic insane? Just so you know, I have very limited internet access until next sunday, and I won't be following the question thread very closely. In my headcannon, big al was pulling them from various points in the past. Does that mean that all this time Big Al has been stealing from past McDonalds? I still like the idea of them being meat made from magic or trans-dimensional fire cows.
TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her Posted June 15, 2015 Author Posted June 15, 2015 Lightwards the true chaotic insane? Does that mean that all this time Big Al has been stealing from past McDonalds? I still like the idea of them being meat made from magic or trans-dimensional fire cows. Like redeemed!Deathwish goes out of his way to protect anyone with a heartbeat, redeemed!Lightwards would go out of his way to restore life to those he takes it from the most. Meaning....insects. And microbes. And that squirrel he accidentally hit the other night. I think trans-dimensional fire cows should become a thing.
Edgedancer he/him Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 Like redeemed!Deathwish goes out of his way to protect anyone with a heartbeat, redeemed!Lightwards would go out of his way to restore life to those he takes it from the most. Meaning....insects. And microbes. And that squirrel he accidentally hit the other night. I think trans-dimensional fire cows should become a thing. And thus he was reborn as Flutterwards! Maybe we should give Big Al an Upgrade.
TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her Posted June 15, 2015 Author Posted June 15, 2015 And thus he was reborn as Flutterwards! Maybe we should give Big Al an Upgrade. "It's okay, lovely mosquito. You're alive now. I'm sorry for that meanie Scribbler swatting you. But all that is over because--what's this? You've brought a friend? Three friends? Oh! It's a whole flock! This is wonderful! I can't believe they really....AAAAUUUUGGHHHHHH!" Is that what happened in Oregon? 3
Comatose he/him Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 Yes and no, with touch the illusion would still just pass through them, so creating a sense of touch wouldn't do much except confuse the opponent. If the illusion was good enough at affecting touch, then you would necessarily pass through. When people feel an obstruction, they don't generally keep pressing. Once they feel something in their way, they stop naturally. This wouldn't prevent someone from moving through an illusion if they bumped into one by accident or if they tried leaning or putting weight on one, but it might deceive a passing inspection. (As a side note, this is kind of what I had in mind for Radiance (the Vancouver epic from Brandon's back story), who could make touchable illusions with limited 'sentience' (like AI for a video game NPC), and used them to control the city until someone figured out she actually had no army at all. Other possibilities for an illusionist faking a PI: Perhaps he could be an astral projector, who can project himself from far away (like Regalia, but with an illusion instead of with water), which would serve to mimic an incorporeal PI. Sorry for the absence, I hope me offering my two cents is still welcome: If he's teaming up with Euphoria to keep the vanillas happy as they're being injured, why would he not instead team up with Buttercup, whose healing power would take care of any injury other than severe head wounds and/or heart piercings/crushings? Other than that little detail I see nothing wrong, and even him choosing Euphoria over Buttercup isn't "wrong" so much as potentially less effective. He could use Buttercup, but my thought was that Rainmaker would keep her busy, and she could not afford time to be there personally to take the injuries. Buttercup's time would be more valuable in Rainmaker and Skinsaver's eyes then the lives of a few vanillas. Unless I missed something and Buttercup can heal other people? If that's the case the time argument still holds, but Buttercup could come around periodically to help out. Regardless, with Euphoria gone, perhaps she could start swinging by to help with more serious cases. Also, to clarify, I didn't really have an official alignment between Skinsaver or Euphoria in mind, or even that he was 'choosing' her over Buttercup. All I meant is that the patients would be kept docile by happiness doses, similar to the rest of the population but slightly increased. There's no reason both could not help out with his practice.
Edgedancer he/him Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 "It's okay, lovely mosquito. You're alive now. I'm sorry for that meanie Scribbler swatting you. But all that is over because--what's this? You've brought a friend? Three friends? Oh! It's a whole flock! This is wonderful! I can't believe they really....AAAAUUUUGGHHHHHH!" Is that what happened in Oregon? To be fair, resurrecting all insects that ever lived even in the last couple years would creat such a number on minions that I'd be pretty dangerous actually. It might be. If the illusion was good enough at affecting touch, then you would necessarily pass through. When people feel an obstruction, they don't generally keep pressing. Once they feel something in their way, they stop naturally. This wouldn't prevent someone from moving through an illusion if they bumped into one by accident or if they tried leaning or putting weight on one, but it might deceive a passing inspection. (As a side note, this is kind of what I had in mind for Radiance (the Vancouver epic from Brandon's back story), who could make touchable illusions with limited 'sentience' (like AI for a video game NPC), and used them to control the city until someone figured out she actually had no army at all. That only could work if someone very carfully and gently (unnaturally so) tried to touch it or wasn't looking. Otherwise, for example when touching a wall, the persons hand would already be inside the illusion before they can actively stop their movement, simply because the person would expect the obstruct to stop their motion for them. A touch like would also screw over the output from the illusion pretty badly given that it would touching more skin than should be possible for what it's trying to mimic.
Voidus Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 If the illusion was good enough at affecting touch, then you would necessarily pass through. When people feel an obstruction, they don't generally keep pressing. Once they feel something in their way, they stop naturally. This wouldn't prevent someone from moving through an illusion if they bumped into one by accident or if they tried leaning or putting weight on one, but it might deceive a passing inspection. (As a side note, this is kind of what I had in mind for Radiance (the Vancouver epic from Brandon's back story), who could make touchable illusions with limited 'sentience' (like AI for a video game NPC), and used them to control the city until someone figured out she actually had no army at all. Other possibilities for an illusionist faking a PI: Perhaps he could be an astral projector, who can project himself from far away (like Regalia, but with an illusion instead of with water), which would serve to mimic an incorporeal PI. Well for mental illusionists my thoughts are that they wouldn't really notice anyway, if say they tried to punch the illusion they'd feel the collision and their brain would just believe that wherever their hand stopped is where the illusion is. That's pretty much what Neverthere is, though she doesn't try to pretend to be incorporeal very often. 1
18th Shard he/him Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) This Epic would need to concentrate a ton though - imagine 'creating' a wall on a sunny day. You would have to create a visual of a wall and its shadow, sounds of any object 'hitting' it like leaves/bugs/wind, and the feeling of the wall and any wind being blocked for each person you are showing it to. And the wall isn't moving, changing, bending, etc. And that's assuming no one tries to lean something on the wall, nothing goes through it, no one runs into it, or someone stands in its 'shadow' and notices the heat is the same. That's not to mention any other illusions he's making. And Comatose, I mentioned the Queens moving to another part of the park in Jumpdrive's POV, though I can change that if necessary. The idea was that they weren't close enough to interfere, but close enough to still be in the general area. Edited June 15, 2015 by 18th Shard 1
Edgedancer he/him Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 Well for mental illusionists my thoughts are that they wouldn't really notice anyway, if say they tried to punch the illusion they'd feel the collision and their brain would just believe that wherever their hand stopped is where the illusion is. That's pretty much what Neverthere is, though she doesn't try to pretend to be incorporeal very often. That would completely throw of a persons movement by putting their entire body in a different position from what it would actually be and depending on how they move the discrepancy would just increase even further, way beyond what the illusion should be capable of creating. Worse yet it would allow an illusionist to create an effectively undestroyable prision that could stop everything except a teleporter or incoporeal from moving.
Voidus Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 This Epic would need to concentrate a ton though - imagine 'creating' a wall on a sunny day. You would have to create a visual of a wall and its shadow, sounds of any object 'hitting' it like leaves/bugs/wind, and the feeling of the wall and any wind being blocked for each person you are showing it to. And the wall isn't moving, changing, bending, etc. And that's assuming no one tries to lean something on the wall, nothing goes through it, no one runs into it, or someone stands in its 'shadow' and notices the heat is the same. That's not to mention any other illusions he's making. Most people don't notice small things like leaves hitting walls and the sound they make but yes that's generally a problem. Though I don't think it applies to a mental illusionist, I imagine their power would be more like 'you think there's a wall there' and his target would believe it, their mind filling in the details. 1
Voidus Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 That would completely throw of a persons movement by putting their entire body in a different position from what it would actually be and depending on how they move the discrepancy would just increase even further, way beyond what the illusion should be capable of creating. Worse yet it would allow an illusionist to create an effectively undestroyable prision that could stop everything except a teleporter or incoporeal from moving. My understanding is that that's generally how most hallucinations work, the halucinatee doesn't notice the oddities even if they try to touch the hallucination, the mind can compensate for almost anything if it needs to. It could only trap them mentally, they'd be fully capable of being dragged out by anyone else or otherwise being moved.
Edgedancer he/him Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 My understanding is that that's generally how most hallucinations work, the halucinatee doesn't notice the oddities even if they try to touch the hallucination, the mind can compensate for almost anything if it needs to. It could only trap them mentally, they'd be fully capable of being dragged out by anyone else or otherwise being moved. Physical touch should be the point at which compensation stops though, because at this point we aren't so much talking about compensation for the illusion as completely rewriting the persons perception. If the illusion can compensate for something that is not directly a part of it like an half raised arm actually being fully raised and with some creativity you can just bring a person in a position that's completely false. This person for example might never again manage to grab an object because his hand isn't where he actually thinks it is. He could be dragged around and not realize it or worse yet become unable to move his arm because he thinks they ripped it out while freeing him, sure that's not a problem at all.
Voidus Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) Physical touch should be the point at which compensation stops though, because at this point we aren't so much talking about compensation for the illusion as completely rewriting the persons perception. If the illusion can compensate for something that is not directly a part of it like an half raised arm actually being fully raised and with some creativity you can just bring a person in a position that's completely false. This person for example might never again manage to grab an object because his hand isn't where he actually thinks it is. He could be dragged around and not realize it or worse yet become unable to move his arm because he thinks they ripped it out while freeing him, sure that's not a problem at all. As the hallucination becomes less relevant the brain reverts its perception, perhaps believing that it's lowering its arm while its actually remaining still until the real and hallucinatory arm are in the same position. That said, proprioception (The ability to sense where your limbs are) is a sense and so should be able to be affected by illusionists even directly if necessary. Only with a particularly powerful illusionist who can create permanent mental hallucinations which given the recent AMA seems unlikely to be able to easily affect High Epics so I don't really see the problem here, there are plenty of more powerful abilities. Lucentia could literally imprison someone in an unbreakable cage, why couldn't an illusionist just mentally do the same? Edited June 15, 2015 by Voidus
18th Shard he/him Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 Well, he did say he wanted a powerful Epic. Changing perceptions is all in your head, but how much would your mind create? If he thinks is arm is twisted backward, would his mind create pain sensations? If he is illusioned over lava, would you feel hot, regardless of actual temperatures?
Voidus Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 Well, he did say he wanted a powerful Epic. Changing perceptions is all in your head, but how much would your mind create? If he thinks is arm is twisted backward, would his mind create pain sensations? If he is illusioned over lava, would you feel hot, regardless of actual temperatures? Again, both of those are senses so I'd say yes they should be able to be manipulated, particularly by mental illusionists, in real life many people suffer from such hallucinations.
Curious Anamaximder he/him Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 Well, he did say he wanted a powerful Epic. Changing perceptions is all in your head, but how much would your mind create? If he thinks is arm is twisted backward, would his mind create pain sensations? If he is illusioned over lava, would you feel hot, regardless of actual temperatures? Probably not.
18th Shard he/him Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 My question is more of what your brain would imagine without the direct illusion. So if there is an illusion of lava, but the Epic doesn't create a perception of heat, would your mind do so anyways?
Voidus Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 My question is more of what your brain would imagine without the direct illusion. So if there is an illusion of lava, but the Epic doesn't create a perception of heat, would your mind do so anyways? Might do, depends on how exactly mental illusions work. IRL hallucinations are sometimes manifested like that, sometimes not so it may vary from Epic to Epic.
Edgedancer he/him Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 As the hallucination becomes less relevant the brain reverts its perception, perhaps believing that it's lowering its arm while its actually remaining still until the real and hallucinatory arm are in the same position. That said, proprioception (The ability to sense where your limbs are) is a sense and so should be able to be affected by illusionists even directly if necessary. Only with a particularly powerful illusionist who can create permanent mental hallucinations which given the recent AMA seems unlikely to be able to easily affect High Epics so I don't really see the problem here, there are plenty of more powerful abilities. Lucentia could literally imprison someone in an unbreakable cage, why couldn't an illusionist just mentally do the same? That's for slight movements, what about something like getting hit by an imaginery car, where getting thrown back by it just completely severes your perception from your actual body? Direct manipulation of senses also isn't the same as secondary effects of something placed without the Epic having to concentrate on it. Two key differences, for one a cage made by Lucentia wouldn't actually be indestructable, Steelheart for example could just blow holes in it without much problems and second versatility, an illusionist like that could find a counter to just about everything by creative creation of objects and effectively have an unlimeted amount of powers.
18th Shard he/him Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 The thing I don't like with having your mind filling in details is Edge's problem above. Maybe make it so there is always some way to tell something is wrong (ex. all illusions have a dark blue shadow instead of normal), or have your mind reject completely implausible illusions?
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