Is Szeth Really "The One Who Hates?"

[Aizhen]

While re-listening to WoR I was wondering if Chapter 32 "the one who hates" is actually referencing Szeth, which seems to be the obvious answer.  Could it instead have something to do with Eshonai taking her new form during that same storm?

 

I'm wondering because instead of staying with just Syl and Kaladin, we also get a super quick peek at Pattern also freaking out in Shallan's wagon.

 

Curiously, we don't have any hint that Renarin's spren is bothered or that anything is bothering Renarin (since we don't have any reason to think he has a spren at this point in the story) though maybe it hasn't developed enough to respond?  

 

I'd be grateful for a link if this has already been covered, I did a search but am new to these stories and this website.  

Edited May 23, 2015 by Aizhen

[DreamEternal]

I believe it is refering to Odium, who is growing more active as the everstorm aproaches, and may have been looking closely at the fight with Szeth, possibly wanting him to win.

Also, with Renarin's spren, if we assume Ym was a Truthwatcher we know that his spren was quite timid. Plus, Renarin managed to hide for most of the book that he was the one writing on the walls, so we don't know if something was bothering him.

Besides seeing the End Of All Things of course.

Edited May 23, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern

[Guest]

I always just assumed that was talking about Odium

[High prince of geeks he/him]

I had immediately thought it was szeth because Syl had something along the lines of "He's coming, the one who hates". Eshonai doesn't show up anytime soon so she's out. I don't think it's odium because he doesn't hate, HE IS HATE!!!!!!! Though it might be a reference to odium finally having manifested some control in the physical plain through Eshonai

[DreamEternal]

Odium is not realy hate itself, though. More of a god of hatred who hates everyone and wants to spread chaos an hatred.

[Aizhen]

I believe it is refering to Odium, who is growing more active as the everstorm aproaches, and may have been looking closely at the fight with Szeth, possibly wanting him to win.

Also, with Renarin's spren, if we assume Ym was a Truthwatcher we know that his spren was quite timid. Plus, Renarin managed to hide for most of the book that he was the one writing on the walls, so we don't know if something was bothering him.

Besides seeing the End Of All Things of course.

 

Whoa, how did I miss Renarin being the one writing the numbers on the wall?  How could the bridge men guarding him not know?  

 

I mentioned I was new to this whole scene, so let me ask a few dumb questions- I really need to buy the books as I had no idea how much artwork I was missing by using Audible, but I live in China and haven't seen it around... do the kindle versions have all the artwork?

1. each order of knight has two surges, they are the same for every order that that knight?  I mean Kaladin has gravity and pressure, so every other wind runner also has those two surges as well?  

1a. so Renarin also presumably has the surge of regrow/healing/whatever lift had?  Cuz that makes him way cooler.

 

2. I haven't read anything else in the cosmere, this is my first time reading Brandon Sanderson, is Odium suppose to be in... Braize?  Which I've poked around and scratched my head and decided is another planet close to Roshar, but also damnation- can anyone clear up my confusion or tell me what books I need to read.  Ha- or the order in which to read the books.  

 

Finally, I get that the one who hates ultimately ties into Odium, but at that moment- during that particular high storm- we know Kaladin sees the everstorm in his dream, that Szeth is coming for Dalinar and that Eshonia is releasing the spren and taking stormform.  What I'm wondering how Odium is manifesting so abnormally that Syl and Pattern are both acting terrified.  

 

I had immediately thought it was szeth because Syl had something along the lines of "He's coming, the one who hates". Eshonai doesn't show up anytime soon so she's out. I don't think it's odium because he doesn't hate, HE IS HATE!!!!!!! Though it might be a reference to odium finally having manifested some control in the physical plain through Eshonai

 

As noted, Syl says "he's coming."  The first couple times I listened to the book I assumed he meant Szeth.  Now I'm thinking it's Eshonai because it's all happening during the same high storm. 

[natc]

Every member of a specific order has the same surges, yes. Barring honorblade-wielding Radiants.

So yeah, Renarin can heal and presumably grow things, as well as lightweave.

Braize is a planet in the Greater Roshar solar system, which includes Braize, Roshar, and Ashin (spelling?). It is referred to by name in ancient texts, supposedly, but the prevailing religion of the cultures we know of calls it Damnation. Religion gets things wrong a lot, you know.

Odium doesn't need to manifest abnormally to facilitate that response, you know. He's Odium, mind and instincts dominated by pure hatred and the power of creation itself coursing through his veins; a being just shy of absolute godhood, and he wants you gone. He's torn three other gods to pieces in his career (other two are a story for another day). Anyone who can sense his influence appearing would ruin their literal and metaphorical pants.

[DreamEternal]

^ ^

Also, you must know that Radiants also get some powers not connect to the surges, like the ability to turn those loyal to them into squires, giving them the ability to hold Stormlight. And each order has some special, unique ability:

Lightweavers get their special memories,

Windrunners get more squires, who may also be stronger than avarage

Truthwatchers see the future

Skybreakers apparently are able to discern between the innocent and guilty. Or are good at debating. The epigraph that talks of their ability is ambiguos.

Nothing is know about the oher orders yet.

Edited May 24, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern

[Curious Anamaximder he/him]

It is spelled Ashyn.

[Guest]

I had immediately thought it was szeth because Syl had something along the lines of "He's coming, the one who hates". Eshonai doesn't show up anytime soon so she's out. I don't think it's odium because he doesn't hate, HE IS HATE!!!!!!! Though it might be a reference to odium finally having manifested some control in the physical plain through Eshonai

 

Szeth doesn't hate though. He's doing what he's doing because he's been ordered to, and feels he has no choice but to obey. He doesn't even really hate the people who're giving him orders.

He MAYBE hates his Oathstone, but that's really the extent of his hatred.

[Guest]

I had immediately thought it was szeth because Syl had something along the lines of "He's coming, the one who hates". Eshonai doesn't show up anytime soon so she's out. I don't think it's odium because he doesn't hate, HE IS HATE!!!!!!! Though it might be a reference to odium finally having manifested some control in the physical plain through Eshonai

 

Szeth doesn't hate though. He's doing what he's doing because he's been ordered to, and feels he has no choice but to obey. He doesn't even really hate the people who're giving him orders.

He MAYBE hates his Oathstone, but that's really the extent of his hatred.

[DreamEternal]

Except after the killing rendered him insane he started hating the victims. And he always hated himself.

Makes me wonder if Odium also hates himself.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

I mentioned I was new to this whole scene, so let me ask a few dumb questions- I really need to buy the books as I had no idea how much artwork I was missing by using Audible, but I live in China and haven't seen it around... do the kindle versions have all the artwork?

 

On a side note all of the artwork is posted on Brandon's site (and book 1 for good measure).  But the kindle version should have all the artwork, though probably not as high quality.

[DreamEternal]

Book two has very high res artwork, but book one does disapoint.

[SedatedDragon]

It's just Odium's attention being there as Szeth arrives. The spren sense his direct gaze.

[Garglemesh he/him]

Not sure if it's uncouth to exhume a dead thread, so let me know if if this is a technical foul or not. 

Syl refers to Odium's presence or gaze or yada yada, due to Szeth's imminent arrival. We know Szeth was there under orders of Mr. T, and he sent Szeth because of the Diagram which came about because of a boon/curse from the Nightwatcher, which is presumably linked to Cultivation. So Odium was highly interested in whether or not Szeth was successful, but perhaps wasn't involved directly. I wonder why. How would Dalinar's death have prevented Odium's turning the Listeners to Stormform? Or was it something else, something longer-term than that? Dalinar has a special connection to Honor through the Stormfather. I think something bigger happened here that we don't understand yet. I can't imagine it was just to give Kaladin the heads up on the assassination attempt.

[goody153]

Yeah i thought it was a reference to Odium. Cause apparently he's watching that time or he has touch there that time.

Except after the killing rendered him insane he started hating the victims. And he always hated himself.

Makes me wonder if Odium also hates himself.

I suspect Odium might be too confident and prideful to hate himself. I mean his end goal is after all being sole and only shard in the Cosmere, i don't think he hates himself if he has plans like that.

Szeth was more like angry to himself for he does not like murdering people yet he is forced to(or convincing himself that he is forced to).

Edited August 30, 2016 by goody153

[Xaklys he/him]

On 5/23/2015 at 8:02 PM, High prince of geeks said:

I had immediately thought it was szeth because Syl had something along the lines of "He's coming, the one who hates". Eshonai doesn't show up anytime soon so she's out. I don't think it's odium because he doesn't hate, HE IS HATE!!!!!!! Though it might be a reference to odium finally having manifested some control in the physical plain through Eshonai

I agree with this, that was the same night that Eshonai made her bond with the stormspren, that explains why Syl was freaking out.  I feel like Eshonai's book (possibly book five) will give us that villain POV and Odium's hold on her and the rest of the Listeners.  Eshonai is gonna be pretty crucial before this is over.

[If.you.die.I.go.stupid]

Might be way off here but this made me think of Nalan/ the man who claims to be Nalan. The cobblers spren said something like "he's here" when Nalan showed up to kill the cobbler. It seems clear that Nalan has been watching Szeth so maybe he was near at the time. Does he hate? I'm not sure of his motivation or if he is who he claims to be.  Maybe he hates the Knights and is working for opium or maybe he thinks stopping the orders from forming will stop the desolation before it starts. 

[Savanorn he/him]

2 hours ago, If.you.die.I.go.stupid said:

Might be way off here but this made me think of Nalan/ the man who claims to be Nalan. The cobblers spren said something like "he's here" when Nalan showed up to kill the cobbler. It seems clear that Nalan has been watching Szeth so maybe he was near at the time. Does he hate? I'm not sure of his motivation or if he is who he claims to be.  Maybe he hates the Knights and is working for opium or maybe he thinks stopping the orders from forming will stop the desolation before it starts. 

I suspect he really is Nin. Pretty good evidence, albeit a little opaque, that the Heralds are corrupted now. 

I suspect the touch of Odium.

[Spoolofwhool]

3 hours ago, If.you.die.I.go.stupid said:

Might be way off here but this made me think of Nalan/ the man who claims to be Nalan. The cobblers spren said something like "he's here" when Nalan showed up to kill the cobbler. It seems clear that Nalan has been watching Szeth so maybe he was near at the time. Does he hate? I'm not sure of his motivation or if he is who he claims to be.  Maybe he hates the Knights and is working for opium or maybe he thinks stopping the orders from forming will stop the desolation before it starts. 

Nale isn't hating though. He's just trying to do what he original agreed to do: protect Roshar. He believed that the return of the KR would bring about the True Desolation, which is why he was going after potentials. After the True Desolation began, after the Everstorm began its path, he flipped goals and began reforming the Skybreakers. As far as I can tell, this indicates that he is still working to protect Roshar and fight Odium.

[If.you.die.I.go.stupid]

1 minute ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Nale isn't hating though. He's just trying to do what he original agreed to do: protect Roshar. He believed that the return of the KR would bring about the True Desolation, which is why he was going after potentials. After the True Desolation began, after the Everstorm began its path, he flipped goals and began reforming the Skybreakers. As far as I can tell, this indicates that he is still working to protect Roshar and fight Odium.

You may be right. I'm on the fence here. Is Szeth chosen to protect Roshar or is he going to be used to fight against the other orders? I didn't think it was clear. I'm not even sure how szeth will fight without stormlight or breaths for the sword he was given.  

[Spoolofwhool]

1 minute ago, If.you.die.I.go.stupid said:

You may be right. I'm on the fence here. Is Szeth chosen to protect Roshar or is he going to be used to fight against the other orders? I didn't think it was clear. I'm not even sure how szeth will fight without stormlight or breaths for the sword he was given.  

So far, hard to say. Seems unlikely that Nale would specifically state that he is reforming the Skybreakers and then use them for something other that defending against the True Desolation. If he did, then he would probably have trouble recruiting other Skybreakers since their spren would guide them towards defending against the True Desolation instead of helping it destroy Roshar. We do know that Nale and Szeth immediate plans are to attack the Shin Stone Shama, which I presume is so that they can claim the remaining honorblades they possess. 

It's been strongly theorized that Nightblood's bond to a person will act as a Nahel Bond on Roshar and give surgebinding abilities. This is due to Nightblood basically containing a splinter, and knowledge that a splinter bonded to a person on Roshar will form into something similar to a Nahel Bond. In any case, he probably doesn't need to even draw Nightblood to fight effectively. The passive physical augmentations it grants combined with Szeth's advanced combat skills would probably be enough, since he can probably block shardblades with the sheathed Nightblood. 

[Savanorn he/him]

2 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Nale isn't hating though. He's just trying to do what he original agreed to do: protect Roshar. He believed that the return of the KR would bring about the True Desolation, which is why he was going after potentials. After the True Desolation began, after the Everstorm began its path, he flipped goals and began reforming the Skybreakers. As far as I can tell, this indicates that he is still working to protect Roshar and fight Odium.

Wait, didn't the Skybreakers already exist before the True Desolation? 

As I recall Helaran joined them and he did so significantly before the Everstorm began. 

Unless that was a lie. 

I mean I assumed Nale's henchmen from Lift's interlude were Skybreakers as well. 

[Yata he/him]

21 minutes ago, Savanorn said:

Wait, didn't the Skybreakers already exist before the True Desolation? 

They was one of the ten Orders, we have also some report of their attitude and relationship with other orders.

21 minutes ago, Savanorn said:

As I recall Helaran joined them and he did so significantly before the Everstorm began. 

Unless that was a lie. 

I mean I assumed Nale's henchmen from Lift's interlude were Skybreakers as well. 

Nale may be guide an organization with the same name, but we have no proofs He has actually Radiant or proto-radiant with Him. His actual "Skybreaker" may be a lawenforcer seth without magical enhancment

Edited September 17, 2016 by Yata