Aizhen

My husband just asked me if there was a place where someone had complied all the thoughts on leadership Brandon Sanderson includes in his books. He teaches an Art of Leadership class to middle schoolers and is always looking/listening for new ideas. I am currently relistening to the original Mistborn Series and Tyndwell (forgive me, I am an audible listener) is hitting Elend hard with how to be a king. But there's so much more, especially in the Way of Kings. Anyone seen anything like this?

Whoa, if you’re right, I will have to change the way i’ve read the back stories. I thought that was the point to the back stories; to see where the cracks came from- for Kaladin it was the many times he tried to save people and failed, cracked him a little more each time. Sargent Pit in Book two say something about sadeas “Broke us right good” but that “turns out men can be reforged” which was what Syl kept trying to get through to him. So I was thinking any of the bridgemen would be cracked enough. And my understanding is that’s Shallan’s cracking began with killing her mother and only continued as she kept her silence and watched her father become a monster until she finally killed him. Dalinar with his past of death and destruction... Remorse or grief seem to be a big part of it for these characters. I know we haven’t gotten the books for Renarin and Jasnah yet, but we know Renarin has never fit in, has always been ill, can’t be the man he thinks he needs to be for his father’s or society’s approval... and we get a brief glimpse in this book into Jasnah’s past: a bout, maybe more of “insanity” or not being in control of herself. I have always assumed those were the source of the cracks. Adolin doesn’t seem to regret the action of killing Sade’s- I cheered- but he seems to have been made to see himself as “less” than he thought he was. He feels like a lie... So I don’t know for sure if that or any of these experiences are enough for soul cracking or not, it’s just what I’ve been assuming all this time. Elokar, I would love to know more about him. Because even if his experiences in book 2 could warrant a crack- realizing he does not have the capacity for the position he has been given- even *if* that’s enough to crack him, he was seeing cryptics in mirrors back in book one.

I have never tried quoting anyone before, so I apologized if I did it wrong; also I could spend all day everyday reading through these boards, but alas I have four small children and a part time job. So I have not read this whole thread either. But personally, I think Adolin (can I mention I hate auto correct changing his name to Adolf every storming time I type it?) has not attracted a spren before because his soul wasn’t cracked enough. This is an assumption, of course, because we clearly do not know much about his past, but we know his mother was a loving mother and his father was proud of him. Dalinar’s back flashes mention several times how well he is turning out, how capable he is socially, and how when corrected Adolin doesn’t wilt but rather tries harder. I think his life was pretty perfect- until he killed Sadeas. I think, I hope, that is cracking him enough to somehow awaken Maya (audible listener, can’t spell half the names). Otherwise, I think it’s a little weird for us to have met her in shadesmar, and have her tell him her name AND have her revive in only seven seconds. That was awesome. Fantastic book. Loved it beginning to end, and more each time I listen to it.

I am *really* enjoying it!! The Assassin in White is amazing, as is Oath Pact Abandoned (though I see a lot more fighting and destruction in my mind at the opening than I do when reading the book- so intense), but the Chasm Kata is my absolute favorite. I love how Sanderson writes that part of the novel. *Love* it and the music went so well. I think I would have liked Sylphrena to be a little bit more mischievous and playful, like The King’s Wit (but not like the kings wit:). I really like her character and she is so multifaceted. I really wanted to buy the art work, but my husband talked me out of it and I’m pretty sorry now. I am really curious about it.

Whoa, how did I miss Renarin being the one writing the numbers on the wall? How could the bridge men guarding him not know? I mentioned I was new to this whole scene, so let me ask a few dumb questions- I really need to buy the books as I had no idea how much artwork I was missing by using Audible, but I live in China and haven't seen it around... do the kindle versions have all the artwork? 1. each order of knight has two surges, they are the same for every order that that knight? I mean Kaladin has gravity and pressure, so every other wind runner also has those two surges as well? 1a. so Renarin also presumably has the surge of regrow/healing/whatever lift had? Cuz that makes him way cooler. 2. I haven't read anything else in the cosmere, this is my first time reading Brandon Sanderson, is Odium suppose to be in... Braize? Which I've poked around and scratched my head and decided is another planet close to Roshar, but also damnation- can anyone clear up my confusion or tell me what books I need to read. Ha- or the order in which to read the books. Finally, I get that the one who hates ultimately ties into Odium, but at that moment- during that particular high storm- we know Kaladin sees the everstorm in his dream, that Szeth is coming for Dalinar and that Eshonia is releasing the spren and taking stormform. What I'm wondering how Odium is manifesting so abnormally that Syl and Pattern are both acting terrified. As noted, Syl says "he's coming." The first couple times I listened to the book I assumed he meant Szeth. Now I'm thinking it's Eshonai because it's all happening during the same high storm.

While re-listening to WoR I was wondering if Chapter 32 "the one who hates" is actually referencing Szeth, which seems to be the obvious answer. Could it instead have something to do with Eshonai taking her new form during that same storm? I'm wondering because instead of staying with just Syl and Kaladin, we also get a super quick peek at Pattern also freaking out in Shallan's wagon. Curiously, we don't have any hint that Renarin's spren is bothered or that anything is bothering Renarin (since we don't have any reason to think he has a spren at this point in the story) though maybe it hasn't developed enough to respond? I'd be grateful for a link if this has already been covered, I did a search but am new to these stories and this website.

Shallan was fighting for her brother's when she killed her father, yes. But I still see a similarity in the two (Sadeas and her father). Both were killers, manipulators, schemers and out to destroy people to advance themselves. I see Sadeas as more practiced and skillful at covering his tracks. I was just saying Shallan can and has killed. I wouldn't call Adolin or Shallan assassins. I didn't say Shallan reminds Kaladin of Tien, I just see the similarity myself. I'm not saying it'll go anywhere. The odds don't sound good for most of the main characters getting a happy ending, unfortunately.

Agreed. I'm really curious at the state Kaladin will find his parents in. They held up well enough while they had something to fight for, i.e. sending Kaladin to learn surgery. But Lirin was feeling the weight of Roshone before Kaladin basically threw all their sacrifices to the wind. Maybe Lirin will find purpose in fighting for the town people, or maybe his will crumbled. Hope not...

And so I die. -Dalinar Not my favorite line for laughing, but it got the biggest reaction out of me in the series. As an audible listener, I literally shouted "What?! No way..." and had to take out my iPhone and make sure there was still a couple hours left in the book. I left my poor husband to put the kids to bed and literally went outside and walked around for over an hour as the battle played out. Which ended so well with Sadeas standing in the middle of the Justice character.

Shallan killed her father. And her mother. Was this already noted? I admit I didn't read all ten pages. She killed her mother in self defense, but her father is more grey. I'd say her killing her father and Adolin killing Sadeas were similar- a dam breaking after months and years of tension, anger, fear, pain, etc building inside them. Pattern doesn't seem bothered by Shallan killing her parents. Maybe it'll deepen Shallan and Adolin's relationship... though I personally think she's enough like Tien to jump on the Kaladin and Shallan wagon. I really like Adolin, though.

In WoK when Kaladin finds out that his parents DID steal the money from Laral's dad, he vows to pay Laral back one day. We know he's got a bag full of huge, dung gems. Maybe he'll just pay her back and be done with her. Though in that scene when Tien is recruited he thinks about "saving" her. It is his personality to want to do so. But I don't think/really hope he won't risk his bond with Syl for revenge again. That would be stupid.

That's a good point because he didn't even involve Dalinar in his plans- why the parshendi? But he said something of his plans to them that gave them the idea that he was bring back their gods. I'm not very good at typing my thoughts, -he tells them something about his "plan" -I assumed it has to do with bringing back the desolations because -that's what Amaran is doing and we know they were working together -and the parshendi claim to kill him because he was doing something "foolish" and later say that he was going to bring their gods back -i don't think he had any idea about the relationship between the parshendi and the desolations, he thought their gods were the great shells. SO what and why did he tell them? Jassnah thinks there's something fishy about it, she sets shallan to researching it.

I read in a WoB that only humans can be radiants- can anyone confirm this? I also am re-listening to WoK and Shallan says that Gavilar thought the Parshendi gods to be the Chasm Fiends, maybe he revealed something to the parshendi about wanting to bring back the desolations- which we know Amaran is trying to do and that he thinks Gavilar wanted to do it as well- and certainly he didn't understand how the desolations are tied to the Parshendi. Instead of explaining to him, they just killed him. Thoughts?

On a slight tangent, I've been wondering about the Shin as well, but haven't organized my thoughts as well. I'm rereading WoK and in one of Szeth's interludes he talks about how the ShinShamen will come get his blade if anyone is every able to kill him- just like that, they will come get the blade from someone good enough to kill Szeth. I also can't understand why they would just send seth out, so well trained and equipped, to cause ruin and destruction in the world. Syl basically calls Szeth Odium at one point doesn't she?

I wondered the same thing about Axies the collector- the guy cataloguing all the spren. I get that it's part of the world building, but descriptions of him was so interesting- I'd really like to learn more about the Aimian and their "curse of kind". The wiki says they aren't even human? I guess it's similar to how the parshendi aren't human?

Yes, thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for. It seems so intentional to me, how Kaladin seems to embody the ideals of the lighteyes while the people who actually are lighteyes-except for a few- are so unhonorable, are such bad leaders. I'm listening to WoK right now and am at the chapter where Laral and Kal are talking and she takes him over to where the other boys are, only to walk away when he's beat down. He looks to her several times during that fight, but she just walks away. It's almost like she set him up to see how he'd do in a fight. If she does care for him, it's not apparent to me. And really, they're how old, 12 or 13? And as for Kaladin not feeling romance, come on He totally feels something for Shallan after their half-truth-feast during the high storm. And it goes past the respect he finds in her ability to smile through all her pain. The beginnings of a love triangle was definitely established and it's one of the biggest reasons Adolin killing Sadeas worries me- with Shallan and Kaladin KR together... I really like all three of those characters.

That was my understanding as well. Venal seemed really upset about Eshonai claiming to change first because it took the "glory" from her, or something along those lines. But Eshonai didn't know at all what she was getting into whereas Venli was described as not changing much with the new form and Eshonai accuses her of knowing what she was doing all along. I would like to see Eshonai "redeemed" though I'm not sure how I feel about people thinking she'll be a knight radiant. There would be a TON of in-world-prejudice to overcome. People are already mistrustful of the KR, how would it look to them to see a parshman/parshendi/voidbringer as a KR? Maybe much later on in the series... after they have built people's trust.

I'm totally with Kaladin in his not wanting to become a light eyes in order to be taken seriously, but rather gain respect as a dark eyes. Maybe if I knew where the prejudice against dark eyes originates from... maybe it would help. But for now, I'm hoping Taln is a dark eyed herald. But if eyes have to lighten to be a "herald"- does just holding the honor blade do it or could it be the result of holding the storm light? I'm pretty new to this hold site and don't know if it's been discussed or if there's a WoB on it. But from what I remember, Kaladin and Szeth are always holding stormlight when they have their blades out, and Taln is barely conscious, dragging himself to get where he's going. Hoid seems to be a key to this whole thing. He was there to "greet" Taln. Hoid being there to met a crazy, huge, ranting farmer seems strange. I think it's Taln. And I am very curious to know how the blades were switched...

So... do we know what their gods are exactly? The storm form itself or the storm spren or the everstorm? That was something else I was wondering about.

Doesn't it say somewhere in WoK that Laral's parents and Kaladin's parents were basically arranging their marriage? Sorry, I can't quote it exactly with the audio books. I think Laral wasn't happy about with marrying Kaladin as a dark eyes, but I think she likes him if you take out eye color. Therefore- go to war and win a shard and everything's fine. That said, I don't dislike her. She's kinda a tragic character. I feel bad for what happened to her. But I don't think she deserves Kaladin.

Adeline being banished might make for a "better" plot... I'm not convenience. But people, the desolation is coming. The Everstorm is going around the world turning all parshendi into void bringers- I would be very disappointed if Dalinar banish Adolin (anything is possible, but...). This is not a normal time. Any choice seems to carry the potential to divide, I can see Dalinar's command to unite the KR trumping his Alethi cultural in this instance specifically. Sadeas had it coming period, the end. Maybe Alakar will order banishment, BUT actually, they are in Urithiru- do Alethi laws have the same power in Urithiru? As for him becoming a KR, I totally think he will for all the reasons already mentioned. Though definitely not as one of Kaladin's "underlings." If he doesn't become a KR, I think that is what could warp his character more than killing Sadeas, or maybe in addition to it. It would almost be like loosing his identity. But I hope not. (sorry for any spelling errors- audible listener)

Do we know how the Parshendi came by Shardblades? Found them in the ruins of the shattered plains along with the carved knives? They seemed to have them at the time they met Galilar and company. It relates in my mind because their eyes- at least Eshoni's- stay black/red regardless of holding a shard blade. I'm also really curious to see where the light eyes ruling concept came from; I felt as disgruntled as Kaladin did when his eyes went blue.

I hope she does not get Kaladin and that Kaladin doesn't feel anything more for her than pity for what she has allowed to happen. I didn't particularly like her in WoK. She was so pushy for him to go to war so he could win a shard blade (highly unlikely though it was) and become a light eyes. It gave the impression he wasn't good enough as a dark eyes. And maybe that should be excusable in the context of their world, but I didn't like her.

Thanks everyone, I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss something. It kinda seemed like a plot hole- but I'm happy to believe than Brandon Sanderson is in complete control and it's not so. Venli and all her scholars seem a little too happy/comfortable with the whole change. Maybe Galvilar's plan gave Venli the idea in the first place? Excited to read Eshoni's back story. Being an audio book listener and looking around on this site has shown me how very much of the sub plots I've missed.

First post: Go! I've searched through this site as best I can to find a discussion about why the Parshendi killed King Gavilar six years ago when he confided to them he was trying to bring their gods back, only to bring their gods back themselves. Did I miss something? I am an audio book listener and I do have three small children who have been neglected for the past two weeks since I discovered these books. I might have listened to them on repeat several times...but all the short bits at the beginning of the chapters are hard to keep straight when I can't see them. Is it just a potential discord within the Parshendi- those (like Eshoni and the three who took the blame for the king's death) who do not want the gods to return, and a secret, sub group (Venia and the "scholars) which has been working the whole time to find a way to make it happen?