Is Szeth Really "The One Who Hates?"

[Savanorn he/him]

11 minutes ago, Yata said:

They was one of the ten Orders, we have also some report of their attitude and relationship with other orders.

Nale may be guide an organization with the same name, but we have no proofs He has actually Radiant or proto-radiant with Him. His actual "Skybreaker" may be a lawenforcer seth without magical enhancment

I beg your pardon. I more meant so far as I was aware that Nin didn't refound the Skybreakers as a result of the Everstorm, because they already existed, regardless of whether they have Radiants on board or not. 

[Yata he/him]

@Savanorn I misunderstood your post, sorry

[Savanorn he/him]

26 minutes ago, Yata said:

@Savanorn I misunderstood your post, sorry

Oh no need to apologise, it was a good reply, even if I didn't ask the question. Good replies always deserve recognition. 

Have a tasty upvote.

[Lord_of_Awesome]

PLOT TWIST! All the orders were secretly alive all this time and Kal & Co. are just random people chosen by random spren!!!

In all seriousness though, I think that there is a fair chance that the Skybreakers never disbanded. They may have lost surgebinding, but they still recruited lowly powerless grunts. (Could the Skybreakers' squires actually have been policemen?)

 

BTW, I'm new here.

[Krandacth]

I think that one order did secretly continue, based on one of the epigraphs (Chapter 41, WoR).  In fact, I haven't seen anyone else propose my particular theory on that.  I'll go start a thread :-)

I don't think it was the Skybreakers though, as the epigraph in question states that "they entertained great subterfuge at the expense of the other nine," which doesn't seem very Skybreaker-y.

[Djarskublar he/him]

3 hours ago, Lord_of_Awesome said:

PLOT TWIST! All the orders were secretly alive all this time and Kal & Co. are just random people chosen by random spren!!!

In all seriousness though, I think that there is a fair chance that the Skybreakers never disbanded. They may have lost surgebinding, but they still recruited lowly powerless grunts. (Could the Skybreakers' squires actually have been policemen?)

 

BTW, I'm new here.

Hello and welcome to the Shard. You can introduce yourself over in the introductions thread. But have a lovely upvote for your first post either way.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

8 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

It's been strongly theorized that Nightblood's bond to a person will act as a Nahel Bond on Roshar and give surgebinding abilities. This is due to Nightblood basically containing a splinter, and knowledge that a splinter bonded to a person on Roshar will form into something similar to a Nahel Bond. In any case, he probably doesn't need to even draw Nightblood to fight effectively. The passive physical augmentations it grants combined with Szeth's advanced combat skills would probably be enough, since he can probably block shardblades with the sheathed Nightblood. 

Not 100% sure on that, because of this WoB.

Quote

Question

I was wondering, is Nightblood a Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson

Nightblood is an attempt by someone who didn't know how Shardblades were made to create a Shardblade using a different magic system.

Question

If Nightblood feeds on Breath, but Szeth doesn’t have it, will it feed on Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson

Nightblood can feed off Stormlight, but Szeth can't draw in Stormlight right now. So Szeth better not draw that sword, for a while at least.

Emphasis added. This may mean that he hasn't done the "bond" yet, but unsure at the moment.

[Spoolofwhool]

2 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

Not 100% sure on that, because of this WoB.

Emphasis added. This may mean that he hasn't done the "bond" yet, but unsure at the moment.

Well yes, I didn't say he immediately bonded to it. I was just saying the possibility existed, in theory. 

6 hours ago, Savanorn said:

Wait, didn't the Skybreakers already exist before the True Desolation? 

As I recall Helaran joined them and he did so significantly before the Everstorm began. 

Unless that was a lie. 

I mean I assumed Nale's henchmen from Lift's interlude were Skybreakers as well. 

I was under the impression that Helaran was a Ghostblood, not a Skybreaker, working in parallel to his father. I never really thought about the possibility of Nale's group being non-KR Skybreakers, though it does make a bit of sense based on what he was saying to Szeth. It does seem like a weird thing to do though, since if they came across a KR Skybreaker there would be conflict, and since most people have negative connotations of KRs. 

[If.you.die.I.go.stupid]

These current skybreakers don't seem all that just. Nolan uses the law to his own ends. I get no sense that he justly executes the law. He seems to be targeting people and hiding behind the law. His henchmen don't always even follow the law, see Lift story. This could be a corruption that plagued th KR skybreakers or it could be something very different. 

[Savanorn he/him]

7 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Well yes, I didn't say he immediately bonded to it. I was just saying the possibility existed, in theory. 

I was under the impression that Helaran was a Ghostblood, not a Skybreaker, working in parallel to his father. I never really thought about the possibility of Nale's group being non-KR Skybreakers, though it does make a bit of sense based on what he was saying to Szeth. It does seem like a weird thing to do though, since if they came across a KR Skybreaker there would be conflict, and since most people have negative connotations of KRs. 

He was both, as I recall. 

I suspect he was actually a proto Radiant as well. 

Putting this aside, though, when I get home this evening I shall find the appropriate references.

[Spoolofwhool]

2 minutes ago, Savanorn said:

He was both, as I recall. 

I suspect he was actually a proto Radiant as well. 

Putting this aside, though, when I get home this evening I shall find the appropriate references.

I really doubt he was a Ghostblood, Skybreaker and a Proto-Radiant since the first two and the last two are slightly mutually exclusive. Ghostbloods seem to be fairly involved in subterfuge and other less-than-lawful-and-orderly activities, something I don't think Nale would tolerate. At the same time, if he were a Proto-Radiant and a Skybreaker, that means he would've been around Nale, which means that chances are good that Nale would've killed him, using some appropriate excuse for execution. While it's possible that he might've been able to hide it, Nale seems to be fairly proficient at finding and identifying Proto-Radiants, so I'm not too sure. 

[Savanorn he/him]

5 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

I really doubt he was a Ghostblood, Skybreaker and a Proto-Radiant since the first two and the last two are slightly mutually exclusive. Ghostbloods seem to be fairly involved in subterfuge and other less-than-lawful-and-orderly activities, something I don't think Nale would tolerate. At the same time, if he were a Proto-Radiant and a Skybreaker, that means he would've been around Nale, which means that chances are good that Nale would've killed him, using some appropriate excuse for execution. While it's possible that he might've been able to hide it, Nale seems to be fairly proficient at finding and identifying Proto-Radiants, so I'm not too sure. 

With all do respect, while your argument is a good one, I'm inclined to disagree.

Firstly, as to the issue of law, remember that Nale himself is rather liberal about this. When he sneaks in and kills Ym he has some justification under the law, but I rather doubt he's squarely in the bounds of it. Provided one could have thos semblance of an excuse, any such activities are easily excusable. 

Also remember when it becomes apparent  Shallan is a radiant the question becomes "who trained her" and it is suggested to be either Jasnah or Helaran by...Vargo I believe. 

Finally, we don't know that Nale kills every and all Radiant, given the name of his order it is rather possible he'd leave Skybreakers alive. Not to imply that all who serve him are Skybreaker Radiants of course.

It seems to be that at the very least Helaran went Ghostblood to Skybreaker, but as I said, it would seem possible to me he was also a surgebinder. 

[The One Who Connects he/him]

In Urithiru, Mraize did mention to Shallan (WoR Chapter 80 something) about her brother seeking out the skybreakers. Not sure what it proves overall, but he did say it

[Spoolofwhool]

Counter-argument about Nale is good, but it seems still that he stands within the law, though on the edge, and doesn't tolerate anything outside. Nothing he has done seems to actually be illegal, just extreme with regards to the law. On the other hand, the Ghostbloods do clearly act outside of laws and cause disorder, from assassinations, and the use of soulcasters outside of the Ardentia. Nale has stated that he respects order, not just direct laws but honor ones as well. He doesn't excuse actions which lead to his end goal, as is exemplified when he reproaches his minion.

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you talk about someone training Shallan.

Nale was under the belief that the KR would bring about the Final Desolation. I see no reason why he would make exception for people in his group if it meant bringing about the Final Desolation.

14 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

In Urithiru, Mraize did mention to Shallan (WoR Chapter 80 something) about her brother seeking out the skybreakers. Not sure what it proves overall, but he did say it

Found a relevant quote about Helaran and the Skybreakers. 

Quote

“Because, you are ignorant.” Mraize stepped closer to her, towering over her. “You don’t know who we are. You don’t know what we’re trying to accomplish. You don’t know much of anything at all, Veil. Why did your father join us? Why did your brother seek out the Skybreakers? I have done some research, you see. I have answers for you.” Surprisingly, he turned from her and walked toward the doorway. “I will give you time to consider. You seem to think that your newfound place among the Radiants makes you unfit for our numbers, but I see it differently, as does my babsk. Let Shallan Davar be a Radiant, conformist and noble. Let Veil come to us.” He stopped by the doorway. “And let her find truth.”

Mraize did say that Helaran was seeking the Skybreakers, though it doesn't say either way about whether he found them and/or joined them. Seems most likely that he was seeking them to join them. We don't know though whether Helaran was still a Ghostblood when he attacked Amaram, though Amaram thought he was. Just remembered though that it is confirmed that he isn't a Proto-Radiant as he was wielding a dead sprenblade when he died.