02/04/13 - AubreyWrites - MoonStruck - Chapter 2 -(L)

[AubreyWrites]

Hey everybody!

This is Chapter 2 of Moonstruck. Previously Elizabeth and her family fled their home on the lunar colony and have been living in hiding for the past 15 years in a tiny mountain town.

I am not particularly happy with this chapter as of now but I would like feedback before I say why so I don't influence anyone's opinion.

Btw, I think the feedback from last week was very on point. I've been considering the pace and I agree that it is probably too slow ....I'm just trying to figure out HOW to introduce the characters a little bit closer to the beginning of the conflict without losing their dynamic.

Tell me what you think!

AubreyWrites

[Syme]

I have a problem with your backstory here. First of all, it's all presented in a massive infodump, which is inelegant and also a minor POV error since people don't think in such a linear way for such a length of time. This reads entirely like Elizabeth telling us a story, not Elizabeth remembering the story.

Giving out your backstory in one big chunk is also much less interesting than just giving out bits and pieces and hints that the reader then can gradually piece together into a coherent picture. That way, your readers are actually curious and interested in finding out more about your background.

A good example of this is The Second Apocalypse, an epic fantasy series by R. Scott Bakker. The backstory here is the first apocalypse, which happened about 2000 years before the main story. The main character Achamian has dreams which are the memories of Seswatha, an important figure that lived during the first apocalypse. Through that, we gradually learn more and more of the backstory, which is very interesting and rewarding. If Bakker had just spelled it all out in chapter 2, it wouldn't have been half as interesting.

And then there's the problem that your backstory is implausible. You said last week that this would explain the lack of future technology, but it really doesn't. Even if we grant the assumption that those rare metals have run out all over the world expect for China, that doesn't mean that technology simply stops. Technology isn't some arcane art that runs on magic crystals (or rare metals), it's simply the creative use of natural laws. If one particular set of magic crystals has run out, it doesn't mean that technology is finished, it just means you have to find ways to use other materials.

I'm also confused about the war. Why was this war fought? Wars never happen without reasons.

And if there was an all-out war, why isn't the world a post-apocalyptic nuclear wasteland?

On the plus side of things, I liked the scenes where Elizabeth taught her class. Her interaction with the children was fun to read.

The scene with Mr. New Guy was confusing. The blocking there didn't really work for me. I wasn't really sure how he brought her back to the lodge after injury.

Apart from that, I liked the interaction in that scene. New Guy seems a little creepy, but in an intriguing sort of way, which I think was your intent.

[AubreyWrites]

Syme,

First of all, it's all presented in a massive infodump, which is inelegant and also a minor POV error since people don't think in such a linear way for such a length of time. This reads entirely like Elizabeth telling us a story, not Elizabeth remembering the story.

And thus you have hit upon the reason I am most unhappy with this chapter. I know it's an info dump and I don't like it. However I am having trouble figuring out exactly when and how to introduce little snippets that will ease some reader confusion and also fill in back story WITHOUT turning into an info dump. This is where I could use some help. I do have places in chapters 3 and 6 (happier with chapter 6) where more back story is revealed in a much better fashion.

And then there's the problem that your back story is implausible. You said last week that this would explain the lack of future technology, but it really doesn't. Even if we grant the assumption that those rare metals have run out all over the world expect for China, that doesn't mean that technology simply stops. Technology isn't some arcane art that runs on magic crystals (or rare metals), it's simply the creative use of natural laws. If one particular set of magic crystals has run out, it doesn't mean that technology is finished, it just means you have to find ways to use other materials.

I don't agree. This is actually based in fact that I have researched. In order for pretty much ALL of current technology to work today we are in fact absolutely dependent on REM's or Rare Earth Metals. There are very few deposits of these left on earth. One is in California and the others are in fact in China.

Necessity is the mother of invention- so when REM's were found on the moon all the innovation went into development of harvesting THEM not into development of new tech that wouldn't need these minerals. Humanity is by nature short-sighted. So when war DID come up (which I kept obscure on purpose) and they started destroying communication Sat.s and each other's tech, they were concentrating on tech to win the war.

It also seems implausible to me that the first thing nations would reach for would be nukes. In the wars since WWII in which nukes were used- have you seen them used since? No- instead we get long drawn out wars like Iraq and Afghanistan and the Vietnam where people just pound on each other until nothing is left hardly. I just took this concept to a global scale. Also a few nukes WERE used- I just haven't talked about them yet. I don't buy the concept that humanity has no sense of self-preservation in a bunch of these post-apocalyptic stories. 2 A-bombs were enough to end war with Japan. I don't see why just because we HAVE nukes nowadays necessarily means everyone will try and USE them ALL at once when they know it would be the end of humanity as a whole.

Besides, you need a certain amount of tech to even use nuke warheads properly (guidance systems, ect) and once communications SATs are out and major cities have been bombed out and use of computing ability severely compromised, the use of high tech weapons becomes much harder to pull off - especially if there are limited amounts of the supplies (REM's) with which to rebuild.

So yes there is limited tech in my story at this point in time. It's not non-existent - just severely limited with strict recycling measures. (I address recycling in chapter 3)

Also yes it's been 15 years since the War- much of that time was spent just trying to rebuild infrastructure and get a grip on the country. so any innovation since then (which is made harder by the already limited tech available now) would be slow coming and almost certainly restricted to military use and therefore not in common circulation.

The scene with Mr. New Guy was confusing. The blocking there didn't really work for me. I wasn't really sure how he brought her back to the lodge after injury.

Apart from that, I liked the interaction in that scene. New Guy seems a little creepy, but in an intriguing sort of way, which I think was your intent.

Yeah I have been thinking about some of the blocking in that scene and I do need to redress a couple things. For the most part I Elizabeth IS confused by him so it's quite natural for the reader to be as well. I'm glad you liked their interaction. I am working on getting better at male type dialogue. I'm glad the creepy thing came across.

Thanks for your feedback!

[little wilson]

I also liked the interaction with Elizabeth and the kids. I think it worked really well. And although I wasn't confused about how the new guy carried her back to the lodge, I am curious how he managed to stay stable with Elizabeth in his arms like that. He wouldn't have been able to use his poles and with that extra weight, I would think his balance would be off. Unless that has something to do with whatever he can do that keeps Elizabeth from sensing anything from him. Which I think is strength or has something to do with strength. So he's from Lunar Colony.

And that actually kind of leads into my biggest issue with the chapter. The infodump. Obviously, since you know it's the weak spot. And yet, it's not so much the fact that it's an infodump that bothers me. It's that the only info it has in regard to Elizabeth and her family is that she is an Empath. And her siblings are something as well. At this point in the story, the things I'm curious to know about are Elizabeth. I don't really care so much about the war and why Lunar Colony existed or even the lack of technology. I want to know what it is about Elizabeth and her family that makes them special. That did get partially answered, but it got horribly outweighed by info I didn't need, so it ended up being a very large hole for me in terms of info.

Taking out that infodump will eliminate that problem. So I guess the advice I have with this is keep in mind the biggest questions in the readers' minds at any given point in the story. Don't answer those outright--you want the reader to keep reading after all--but also don't completely answer questions that the reader isn't even asking. Throw in phrases and words here and there to make the reader have more questions about that backstory with the war.

What are the biggest questions right now? Why is Elizabeth's family special and only her family? Are Alex and Row Empaths as well? Why did they need to leave in such a hurry? What is Cain hoping to use them for?

There's some others as well, but those are the biggest about her and her family. And like I said, they don't need to be answered completely so soon in the story. Please don't. Just a taste of an answer. And I notice you say you don't know how to throw in snippets of info. You have a perfect opportunity with the redhead girl. Does Elizabeth touch her skin? If so, she could sense the emotions. Yeah, they're basic emotions anyone would be able to read off the girl, but this is way to add that snippet of info that Elizabeth isn't quite like a normal person. And once she's done it, she can add just a little more info about what it is she did. Along with that, if Alex and Row have a different ability, maybe she's a little envious of that ability at times. Maybe a situation comes up that she wishes she could do what Row can. Or Alex. You can leave it to Row ajd Alex's POV's about what their abilities are, but that would let us know that they're not Empaths. Assuming that they aren't. I would guess they aren't, since the new guy has strength (I think). Which makes me wonder how he has strength if the specialness was something only Elizabeth's family had.

Anyway. The chapter was good. I liked it. It had more in the way of both action and info (infodump not included) than the previous chapter, which was very good. I like how it's coming along.

[Mandamon]

So the whole infodump issue seems to be covered. It needs to be changed, but I think the important part is how it should be changed.

You don't actually get to The Big Secret until nine pages in, and this is what I have more of a problem with than even the infodump. She's an Empath (and her siblings are something, too) but I looked back at the previous chapters. It seems like you've made an effort to show she can bond with the children and with New Guy at the end, but I don't see evidence of this anywhere previously. it's like you included it particularly in this chapter because you wanted to show it off. Especially in the flashback with Bleys, holding hands for the first time I would expect to see her knowing his emotions in her recollection.

So this ties in with the infodump. I think all of this you need to spread out more between the chapters. Don't keep it a secret, because it's the point of your book (I assume). Show that she's getting blips of emotion from those she interacts with in the first chapter, then you won't need to explain as much. Have someone in passing mention that they wished X technology was still around, or that X war with China hadn't happened.

You can do the same thing with the siblings, if they have a different power. I would as rather not have to read another infodump later about what their ability is.

As to New Guy, he's weird. Looks like that's your intent, so I guess it's alright, but he comes across as almost bipolar. He's strangely angry one moment, then helpful the next. Oh, and if I was a girl and he had kissed me like that, he would have been on his rear and I would have been limping back to the lodge on my own, no matter how much I had to struggle. Or at least the manager would be hearing about it and me might not be working there the next day after all.

Also, I was thinking your assumption of rare minerals of any sort on the Moon was false, but looked it up and found out people are starting to think of that already, so good work there. It lends some credence to your backstory and setting up the colony on the moon. I will agree you need a better reason for the sudden war. Even if that's some plot point later, have the current opinion that some dimplomat made a faux pas or something, just so the reader doesn't wonder why there's no reason.

Random question: Can your nose run in space?

Overall, I liked this chapter better than the last one, but it does need some editing.

[AubreyWrites]

Mandamon,

It seems like you've made an effort to show she can bond with the children and with New Guy at the end, but I don't see evidence of this anywhere previously. it's like you included it particularly in this chapter because you wanted to show it off. Especially in the flashback with Bleys, holding hands for the first time I would expect to see her knowing his emotions in her recollection.

I think I probably need to address the nature of her abilities better. I would categorize her as an empath but really what's happening is when she is touching someone else's skin, she beginning to chemically reflect them. Our bodies react checmically when we experience different emotions. So she doesn't touch someone and suddenly know they're feeling angry. She experiences what how their body is chemically reacting to anger. i.e. face flushes. temp may rise. throat closing up, knot in stomach...She doesn't understand this yet -not having the advantage of lab tests and someone to really explain it to her. She's just learned to puzzle out how different "feelings" (chemical changes)are linked to reactions/emotions people are having.

Also her (and siblings) abilities didn't manifest themselves until puberty. I thought i had said that in the infodump but i need to make it clearer. In chapter 1 when she's holding Bley's hand in the car she gets a rush of warm feeling. i was trying not to spell it out but i guess maybe some of that was too subtle for this early on in the story.

Oh, and if I was a girl and he had kissed me like that, he would have been on his rear and I would have been limping back to the lodge on my own, no matter how much I had to struggle.

There is a reason he almost does a 180 on personality and also a reason for kissing her so absurdly. However i think you are right partially on her reaction. I think i'm going to rework how they get down off the mountain but i need to make clearer why she doesn't tell anyone about him assaulting her. When they touched she didn't get ANYTHING- not a single reaction and she's curious and maybe a little scared.

Also Thanks for the tip on the reason for the war. there is of course a reason but i probably need to attribute it to a false one for now.

Random question: Can your nose run in space?

Having done absolutely no research on this, my quick answer is: I would think so. The body produces mucous. When it builds up so much, like anything else liquidy it will follow the path of least resistance- usually out an orifice. now what it does once it reaches the nose opening- your guess is as good as mine whether it will stay on the face since gravity is what pulls it down out of the nose....maybe it just floats until a big enough glob breaks off Could be an interesting visual- if a gross one - how is that for a BS answer?

[Syme]

And thus you have hit upon the reason I am most unhappy with this chapter. I know it's an info dump and I don't like it. However I am having trouble figuring out exactly when and how to introduce little snippets that will ease some reader confusion and also fill in back story WITHOUT turning into an info dump. This is where I could use some help. I do have places in chapters 3 and 6 (happier with chapter 6) where more back story is revealed in a much better fashion.

The most important thing is to spread out the infodumping. Having a paragraph or two thrown in there here and there is much more palatable than having one multi-page giant glob.

The guide line here is to reveal things as they come up for your characters and plot. So Elizabeth gets complimented on her ability to work with kids, which is due to her being an empath. This therefore is a good place to reveal that she is an empath and that she has to hide her talents, but we don't need all the rest of the back story for that.

I don't agree. This is actually based in fact that I have researched. In order for pretty much ALL of current technology to work today we are in fact absolutely dependent on REM's or Rare Earth Metals. There are very few deposits of these left on earth. One is in California and the others are in fact in China.

I did a little research of my own on that and from what I've found, there are plenty of deposits all over the world, it's just expensive to mine them and the prices for REMs aren't really all that high. So I think it's very unlikely that everyone outside of China will be cut off.

But point I originally tried to make is that even if that happens, we wouldn't go back to living on 1980s technology, we'd develop new technology that doesn't require those metals.

Necessity is the mother of invention- so when REM's were found on the moon all the innovation went into development of harvesting THEM not into development of new tech that wouldn't need these minerals. Humanity is by nature short-sighted. So when war DID come up (which I kept obscure on purpose) and they started destroying communication Sat.s and each other's tech, they were concentrating on tech to win the war.

From what I read, the embargo on REMs happened before the discovery of deposits on the Moon, so there should be considerable interest in REM-free technology even before that discovery. Those researchers wouldn't just abandon their research. After all, in the real world, we keep finding new oil reserves and improve mining techniques to access deposits that were previously out of our reach or to inefficient to harvest, but that doesn't stop all the research on alternative energy.

It also seems implausible to me that the first thing nations would reach for would be nukes. In the wars since WWII in which nukes were used- have you seen them used since? No- instead we get long drawn out wars like Iraq and Afghanistan and the Vietnam where people just pound on each other until nothing is left hardly. I just took this concept to a global scale. Also a few nukes WERE used- I just haven't talked about them yet. I don't buy the concept that humanity has no sense of self-preservation in a bunch of these post-apocalyptic stories. 2 A-bombs were enough to end war with Japan. I don't see why just because we HAVE nukes nowadays necessarily means everyone will try and USE them ALL at once when they know it would be the end of humanity as a whole.

There haven't been any large scale wars since WWII. All the wars since then have either been between countries without nukes, civil wars in countries without nukes or one-sided affairs where a powerful country or groups of powerful countries fight against a much weaker country and therefore doesn't need nukes.

But when two major powers or coalitions clash, I find it highly unlikely that they would come to some sort of mutual agreement not to use their most powerful and efficient weapons, especially when the first strike advantage is so large. I find it even more implausible that both power-blocs would use a few nukes without bringing about an escalation of the conflict.