Dustbringer's Secondary Ability

[Redbird]

So if the windrunners have enhanced combat abilities more and stronger squires, and the lightweavers have great memory/art skills. So what might the releasers have? I propose that they see something akin to shatterpoints. Shatterpoints are something Jedi see, it is the one point, that if attacked, will destroy all of something. This ability seems useful to releasers, since they use destruction and friction, and seeing the weakpoint of something would be quite beneficial.

Here is the wookieepedia article on shatterpoints.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Redbird

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

I could see this.

I think it would be more broadly applicable than just physical weak points. They might be mastered tacticians or strategists able to analyze an armies weak points or an enemy forces' weak points, or any enemies character weak points as well.

While the BondSmith is the leader of the army, the dustbringers would be the planners

[Redbird]

I didn't exactly mean for one thing, just as shatterpoints are not, they could be a person who is intergral to an entire factions operation, such as Count Dooku being vital to the seperatists.

[maxal]

Careful, Windrunners do not have enhanced combat abilities... They have abnormal squire strengths. This was confirmed by Brandon. I suspect though one order must have enhanced combat abilities as a side power. My personal guesses, so far, have been the Dustbringers and the Edgedancers. However, I am leaning towards the Dustbringer and I now forecast Edgedancer having enhanced agility.

 

 

While the BondSmith is the leader of the army, the dustbringers would be the planners

 

Dalinar does not lead the army anymore. He became a politician which I suspect Bondsmiths were. War was most likely being conducted by the war-oriented orders: Windrunners, Dustbringers, Edgedancers. 

[natc]

He's Highprince Dalinar Kholin. He doesn't fight but he's still in charge of the Kholin army. He technically still owns it and all.

[maxal]

And I get downvoted for this? Really                                Wow.

 

Technically, Dalinar transferred the leadership of his army to Adolin in WoK. He was not involved in neither the planning nor the conducting of most fights in WoR, not to say he does not have his word, but his role has changed.

[Elithanathile]

Hum. First time I've seen Star Wars brought into the Sanderverse. (That's probably an awful term.)

 

 

And I like it.

 

That ability would make Dustbringers crazy powerful. Being able to look at a brick wall, see it's weakpoint, run at it, and kick it in that spot, and just have the whole wall explode (read: fall down) on you, would be awesome. Being able to crack chasmfiend shells with a touch, negate the Parshendi's armor, etc. The dustbringer squires would probably be the special forces of the army, going in and defusing dangerous situations. I now want this to happen in the books so bad. Make it so, Brandon!

[CabbageHead]

Dalinar does not lead the army anymore. He became a politician which I suspect Bondsmiths were. War was most likely being conducted by the war-oriented orders: Windrunners, Dustbringers, Edgedancers. 

 

Don't forget the Stonewards.... Followers of the Herald of War.

[FlatLine]

Hum. First time I've seen Star Wars brought into the Sanderverse. (That's probably an awful term.)

 

 

And I like it.

 

That ability would make Dustbringers crazy powerful. Being able to look at a brick wall, see it's weakpoint, run at it, and kick it in that spot, and just have the whole wall explode (read: fall down) on you, would be awesome. Being able to crack chasmfiend shells with a touch, negate the Parshendi's armor, etc. The dustbringer squires would probably be the special forces of the army, going in and defusing dangerous situations. I now want this to happen in the books so bad. Make it so, Brandon!

I think the word you are looking for is Cosmere. 

[Shard of Adonalsium]

Dustbringers would be like the bomb defusal squadrons of the KR army.

 

Windrunners as shock troopers, Lashing themselves towards large groupings of enemies and speaking an Oath or something, exploding with Stormlight and knocking the opposing side backwards.

 

Edgedancers would be the ninjas/assassins/elite troops of the KR army, able to slide right through large groups of enemies, and stab them all with daggers or something as they go along.

 

Lightweavers would act as illusionary masters, creating fake squads to distract the enemies while the real troops move in and flank them.

 

Elsecallers would be like elite assassins, able to teleport behind enemies and stab them in the back, and then teleport away after.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

In terms of a full army structure this is how I've always seen it: 

 

• Windrunners - Light Infantry with all those squires running around/officers
• Skybreakers - Heavy cavalry with their ability to move at speed and strike hard
• Dustbringers - Armored Tank division, blowing things up with their surges
• Edgedancers - Light cavalry, zipping around the battle field slicing and dicing and they carry a medkit
• Truthwatchers - Strategic/Tactical Planning and Medics
• Lightweavers - Intelligence and Analysis
• Elsecallers - Logistics and support with soulcasting and transportation. Also Research/Analysis
• Willshapers - Forward scouts with transportation and phasing abilities
• Stonewards - Heavy Infantry/officers
• Bondsmiths - Flag staff responsible for overall operations and coordination between groups

[natc]

Don't forget the Stonewards.... Followers of the Herald of War.

Who seems to be dead on a regular basis

I guess our definition of leading armies happened to be different. I pretty much agree with everything else. Semantics are annoying.

[Savanorn]

Careful, Windrunners do not have enhanced combat abilities... They have abnormal squire strengths. This was confirmed by Brandon. I suspect though one order must have enhanced combat abilities as a side power. My personal guesses, so far, have been the Dustbringers and the Edgedancers. However, I am leaning towards the Dustbringer and I now forecast Edgedancer having enhanced agility.

 

 

 

Dalinar does not lead the army anymore. He became a politician which I suspect Bondsmiths were. War was most likely being conducted by the war-oriented orders: Windrunners, Dustbringers, Edgedancers. 

 

 

Just to note Max, remember we know that Windrunner's unique trait is not enhanced combat abilities, not that they do not receive them at all. 

 

I've proposed this idea before, but I think that as well as receive some general powers (such as stormlight use) and some unique powers (such as the surges) but they may receive some semi-unique powers or gifts as a result of their role in life.

 

Like, a Dustbringer who is a soldier may find he's particularly apt with swords but maybe if he was a philosopher he'd be a super deconstructionist. 

 

Basically, this is an alternate theory as to why someone like Shallan is a painter, Jasnah is a world-famous scholar (noted for her will)  but Dalinar and Kaladin are both superlative fighters.

 

Basically, I think to a degree spren gift expression follows the context of someone's life and in this scenario it would depend on the Radiant, not the order as to what 'gifts' he has.  

 

In regards to the OP, I really don't like the 'shatterpoint' idea. Basically because it's overly simplistic. There's no one spot you could hit to destroy it all, some systems might be too dynamic and resilient while others might have multiple points where a hit could bring them down. So yeah. Something a little toned down might do.  In fitting with their characters Releasers might be able to see how to break a thing down. Like they might hold a metal bar and know the best way to apply division. 

 

Like, a Skybreaker might be able to use division, but maybe they wouldn't truly be able to get the most out of it. 

[Redbird]

In regards to the OP, I really don't like the 'shatterpoint' idea. Basically because it's overly simplistic. There's no one spot you could hit to destroy it all, some systems might be too dynamic and resilient while others might have multiple points where a hit could bring them down. So yeah. Something a little toned down might do.  In fitting with their characters Releasers might be able to see how to break a thing down. Like they might hold a metal bar and know the best way to apply division. 

 

Like, a Skybreaker might be able to use division, but maybe they wouldn't truly be able to get the most out of it. 

I wasn't saying quite that powerful, but they might see the weakest point, or where they are needed most.

[Lord Tavash Shar]

I was sure that based off the epigraph and prolog references to them the Releasers special power had to do with something powerful enough that it made the very rock of a battle field "Smolder" more then likely a deconstruction of the shell of any object followed by the force to ignite it.

Water is not flammable. But Hydrogen and oxogen sure are.

[Kelsier Kenobi]

It just came to me how devastating a group of Elsecallers could be to a normal or non-invested army.  They could Soulcast the oxygen around the enemy into poison or Transport giant boulders right on top of their heads.  Pretty scary actually.

[natc]

I was sure that based off the epigraph and prolog references to them the Releasers special power had to do with something powerful enough that it made the very rock of a battle field "Smolder" more then likely a deconstruction of the shell of any object followed by the force to ignite it.

Water is not flammable. But Hydrogen and oxogen sure are.

That could easily be a surge or a combination of their surges.

I happily await for the appearance of our first dustbringer.

[maxal]

 

In terms of a full army structure this is how I've always seen it: 

 

• Windrunners - Light Infantry with all those squires running around/officers
• Skybreakers - Heavy cavalry with their ability to move at speed and strike hard
• Dustbringers - Armored Tank division, blowing things up with their surges
• Edgedancers - Light cavalry, zipping around the battle field slicing and dicing and they carry a medkit
• Truthwatchers - Strategic/Tactical Planning and Medics
• Lightweavers - Intelligence and Analysis
• Elsecallers - Logistics and support with soulcasting and transportation. Also Research/Analysis
• Willshapers - Forward scouts with transportation and phasing abilities
• Stonewards - Heavy Infantry/officers
• Bondsmiths - Flag staff responsible for overall operations and coordination between groups

 

I somehow do not think the Orders can be separated in such distinct functions. Based on the clues at hand, it seems any Orders could have warriors and/or scholars within its ranks. Whereas the concentration of each would greatly vary from one Order to the other, I think it is false to think ALL Dustbringers were soldiers... Some may have been scientists interested in the applied physics behind the surges of division and abrasion (for example), just like some Lightweavers may have been soldiers standing strong on the front line.

 

The military leader of the army could have thus originate from any Order at a given time.... For example, with actual crew the best tactical leaders for large scale battles are Dalinar and Adolin, not Renarin which, according to your chart, would befit this role.

 

Just to note Max, remember we know that Windrunner's unique trait is not enhanced combat abilities, not that they do not receive them at all. 

 

 

You are right but, correct me if I am wrong, I meant Windrunners do not receive enhanced combat abilities compared to the other orders. Whatever enhancement they receive such as increased reflexes, speed and strength seems to be a side-effect from Stormlight itself, which all Radiants get. We wee Shallan lift a heavy Kaladin with the help of Stormlight...

 

 

I've proposed this idea before, but I think that as well as receive some general powers (such as stormlight use) and some unique powers (such as the surges) but they may receive some semi-unique powers or gifts as a result of their role in life.

 

Like, a Dustbringer who is a soldier may find he's particularly apt with swords but maybe if he was a philosopher he'd be a super deconstructionist. 

 

Basically, this is an alternate theory as to why someone like Shallan is a painter, Jasnah is a world-famous scholar (noted for her will)  but Dalinar and Kaladin are both superlative fighters.

 

Basically, I think to a degree spren gift expression follows the context of someone's life and in this scenario it would depend on the Radiant, not the order as to what 'gifts' he has.  

 

This is an interesting idea... It could be inhaling Stormlight gives you enhanced capacities, but how you use them if tight to your role in society. A soldier would use them in combat situations whereas a scholar would have other uses.

[Wyndrunner]

I just have a question about this:

 

 

So if the windrunners have enhanced combat abilities more and stronger squires

Is this true for all Windrunners is or is it something unique to Kaladin himself? I've been thinking about this a little bit and I think that there may be slight differences between each spren. I mean, not all Honorspren are named Sylphrena, so there must be some sort of individualization amongst them. Perhaps the distinct personalities and identities of each spren (and the innate Investiture of the Radiant itself) can affect what is transferred through the Nahel bond. 

 

Or I'm wrong and each spren that belongs to a distinct group grants the same set of powers as any other spren of that category.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Wyndrunner

[CabbageHead]

I just have a question about this:

Is this true for all Windrunners is or is it something unique to Kaladin himself? I've been thinking about this a little bit and I think that there may be slight differences between each spren. I mean, not all Honorspren are named Sylphrena, so there must be some sort of individualization amongst them. Perhaps the distinct personalities and identities of each spren (and the innate Investiture of the Radiant itself) can affect what is transferred through the Nahel bond. 

 

Or I'm wrong and each spren that belongs to a distinct group grants the same set of powers as any other spren of that category.

 

It could be unique to Syl, or perhaps it is because she is experienced. We know (or at least can infer from what she says) that Syl is one of the few spren remaining alive who formed a nahel bond in the past.

[Savanorn]

I was sure that based off the epigraph and prolog references to them the Releasers special power had to do with something powerful enough that it made the very rock of a battle field "Smolder" more then likely a deconstruction of the shell of any object followed by the force to ignite it.

Water is not flammable. But Hydrogen and oxogen sure are.

 

Full Metal Releaser.

 

 

You are right but, correct me if I am wrong, I meant Windrunners do not receive enhanced combat abilities compared to the other orders. Whatever enhancement they receive such as increased reflexes, speed and strength seems to be a side-effect from Stormlight itself, which all Radiants get. We wee Shallan lift a heavy Kaladin with the help of Stormlight...

 

 

 

 

Oh, you're not wrong, I meant though that, for instance Kaladin actually does receive a very real increase to his abilities.

 

Hmmm.

 

Let me explain my reasoning. I admit it's kind of baseless. 

 

Like Jasnah says, Honour is an expression of an ideal, ideals are abstract concepts and spren are shards of gods and thus they themselves represent an idea, by engaging in a nahel bond Kaladin is receiving a very real increase to his capacity to perform tasks by being able to interact with the ideal. So it is that Spren gain human sentience and so it is that humans gain spren-like adherence to an ideal.

Kaladin is able to become a particularly good soldier/bodyguard/leader because he can fix and draw on that ideal. It's also why the bond begins to weaken when Kaladin is doing things he knows are not in keeping with the core ideal of the role he's taken. 

 

Even if it was the right thing to do, the King's bodyguard cannot be the kings assassin.

 

Using this as a starting point, a Dustbringer who sees himself as and has the opportunity to become, a fighter would likely receive a sort of long run bonus to their capabilities much like Dalinar and Kaladin are both excellent fighters.

 

It's not without base in the Cosmere (with Preservation and Endowment both altering the mind slightly) 

 

 

 

 

This is an interesting idea... It could be inhaling Stormlight gives you enhanced capacities, but how you use them if tight to your role in society. A soldier would use them in combat situations whereas a scholar would have other uses.

 

 

Lacking motivation for that paper due at 9AM tomorrow? STORMLIGHT TO THE RESCUE. 

 

I just have a question about this:

Is this true for all Windrunners is or is it something unique to Kaladin himself? I've been thinking about this a little bit and I think that there may be slight differences between each spren. I mean, not all Honorspren are named Sylphrena, so there must be some sort of individualization amongst them. Perhaps the distinct personalities and identities of each spren (and the innate Investiture of the Radiant itself) can affect what is transferred through the Nahel bond. 

 

Or I'm wrong and each spren that belongs to a distinct group grants the same set of powers as any other spren of that category.

 

It is true of all windrunners according to Brandon, but we've yet to meet another Windrunner.

 

I think that individual differences might not be that drastic, although they might effect spren behaviour.  

Edited May 15, 2015 by Savanorn

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

maxal, on 13 May 2015 - 2:32 PM, said:

I somehow do not think the Orders can be separated in such distinct functions.

I agree with you in general. Personalities being what they are, you will have variation within each order. I guess I'm talking about how their power set fits within a larger scheme for large scale war, like a desolation.

Plus, spren are attracted by certain personality/action traits and while orders like Dustbringers may have people with those personality/action traits who are also scholarly, I have to imagine that they are/were a minority. My categories above would be the "stereotype" for an order, and while not generally a good practice to judge people IRL on stereotypes, they exist because there is some propensity to that stereotyped trait within a group.

maxal, on 13 May 2015 - 2:32 PM, said:

This is an interesting idea... It could be inhaling Stormlight gives you enhanced capacities, but how you use them if tight to your role in society. A soldier would use them in combat situations whereas a scholar would have other uses.

Teft says when Kaladin speaks his 2nd vow:

QuoteIt was more than the Stormlight. Teft had only a fragmentary recollection of the things his family had tried to teach him, but those memories all agreed. Stormlight did not grant skill. It could not make a man into something he was not. It enhanced, it strengthened, it invigorated. It perfected... This was a master of the spear with his capacity enhanced to astonishing levels. - WoK pg 927

So whatever your skill levels, they will be raised, made better by the stormlight, and the better your inherent skills, the higher your skills are raised, to perfection. So Kaladin becomes the perfect spear fighter with it, Shallan becomes an even better artist, able to exactly reproduce what she sees, etc. So orders that are more war oriented will be more inclined to have their skills in areas of war. More than that though, Stormlight urges its wielders to action, they seem to have a hard time sitting still or not using the powers when they have inhaled stormlight. Maybe that will come with practice, maybe not. I doubt that the Stormlight enhances Kaladin's Surgeon abilities, but maybe that is something we'll get to see explored in subsequent books after he learns to both inhale stormlight and be a bit more passive.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Green Hoodie Mistborn

[Housedunn]

Shatter point goes alittle farther than this. Some Jedi can actually see shatterpoint in TIME seeing inciting incidents before they happen. One example is when mace was fighting The emperor and knew anakin was gonna enter the room

[Honorless]

On 5/12/2015 at 5:18 AM, Redbird said:

So if the windrunners have enhanced combat abilities more and stronger squires, and the lightweavers have great memory/art skills. So what might the releasers have? I propose that they see something akin to shatterpoints. Shatterpoints are something Jedi see, it is the one point, that if attacked, will destroy all of something. This ability seems useful to releasers, since they use destruction and friction, and seeing the weakpoint of something would be quite beneficial.

Here is the wookieepedia article on shatterpoints.

Division plus Abrasion... yes, I can see that happening

Lightweavers also seem to have a knack for inspiring people to transform into better versions of themselves

[Karger]

Personally I am hopping for some kind of passion increase/ intimidation ability.  I think Dustbringers should be the kind of people responsible for leading the charge and making everyone next to them feel 10 feet tall.  Not a leader but an idealist.  Kind of like a passive rioting.