Non-Mistborn Allomancers who can burn multiple metals?

[Blackharp]

I remember reading in the books (both the Trilogy, Alloy, and RPG)that either you are a one metal Allomancer, or you are an all-metals Mistborn. I will admit that it has been awhile since I have read the original trilogy, and I couldn't remember if there were any characters who could burn JUST two metals.

My question then (and apologies if this has already been asked, I looked for the topic and didn't find any)is:

Is there any specific reason you can't have an Allomancer able to burn multiple metals without being mistborn?

I was looking over the game and thinking, "Man I would love to play an Allomancer who can only use Tin and Steel (weird I know)" and then I realized that there wasn't rules for that sort of character. And yeah, I could keep talking but it would just be me asking the same question over, and over.

Thanks in advance!

[name_here]

The only way to be able to burn two metals but not all of them is Hemalurgy. It's just how Allomancy works, people are Mistborn or single-metal Mistings.

[Oudeis]

I was looking over the game and thinking,

By "game", you mean the RPG by Crafty Games? I'm going to continue assuming the answer is 'yes', if I'm mistaken, my apologies and don't bother reading any future.

In the books, technically yes, there are non-Mistborn who burn two metals. In the RPG, there are, in fact, rules to have a character who burns both Tin and Steel. In both cases, the answer is Hemalurgy.

If you're asking for a reason why it has to be all or one, all I can tell you is that Sanderson made it pretty clear that this is the case, and while we've learned to challenge our assumptions about what 'everyone knows' (like how there's no such thing as an atium Misting), at no point anywhere in any book does someone burn only two and not all metals without Hemalurgy.

The rules for a Steel Spike (which would be what you need, whether you gain Tin or Steel) are on page 315. The basic rules for Hemalurgy are one page 285. I'm pretty sure that you cannot start a character with a spike; you have to buy them with Advancement Points (The cost is 2xyour new rating, and since you can never improve this, you should try to start it rather high). It does say that Hemalurgy is only allowed with Narrator consent, and it warns the Narrator only to allow this consent if there is real, compelling reason. To be frank, if you "just think it would be cool" then I for one would love to hear your ideas and discuss the possibilities with you, but if I were your Narrator, I'd try to find other ways to let you express your character. If you do have some story reason why it would improve the game and the enjoyment for everyone (not just 'my character is more powerful', but 'the game experience is now more interesting for everyone'), then I would DEFINITELY like to hear that story, and you might have a shot at convincing your Narrator.

Incidentally, how did you find a group? I've been trying to get a group going in my hometown for quite some time.

[Lance Alvein]

Just to add something that you may have already thought of - You could play a full allomancer who only uses Tin and Steel (either because of a mental block, or a specific quirk of the character). Also - the Mistborn Vials that they use in the RPG are designed to have the base 8 metals in them (at a smaller amount than the Misting vials) - so if you really wanted to, you could probably use a specialized vial for the character that only had the two metals in it (or have a vial of Tin and a vial of Steel).

[Blackharp]

Haven't actually found a group yet, this is just for future planning. Though if there is anyone here from Chicago, I will happily host a Mistborn gaming group, I have no problems GM-ing/Narrating.

And yeah, I saw that technically you could make a 2 metal allomancer with Hemalurgy, but I was mostly wondering if Sanderson had ever specifically said WHY it is either one or all. I plan on going to his book signing here in Chicago tomorrow, and I was hoping to ask him, but didn't want to waste his time if it had already been asked and explained.

Also, if any of you are going to the signing in Chicago tomorrow, let me know! I'll save you a spot in line!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Edit:

Also, I was trying to figure out how you would build a two-metal allomancer when working over the stat portion of the creation. Would he be a Strong or Medium Power character?

And Lance, I have thought about doing that but I didn't want to waste a Strong Power slot for the Mistborn ability if it was possible to work around it and keep him at a Medium. My idea was to count him as a Medium Power, but for his skill points put them at 4-5 and then maybe allow one of the metals to have a stunt. That way he isn't as focused as a single-metal, but he also isn't as Jack-of-all-trades as the Mistborn.

Edited January 8, 2013 by Blackharp

[Thought]

"Man I would love to play an Allomancer who can only use Tin and Steel (weird I know)"

That's not weird, that's a sniper. Seems like a valid profession to want to play.

Also, to note, technically speaking, every misting can burn two metals. Namely, their normal metal (say, Tin) and Lerasium. But short of house rules (no reason you can't) or hemalurgy, there's no useful way to have a two-metal allomancer.

The reason is basically that if you are kind of well connected to Preservation, you get one ability, but if you are a little closer than that, you get them all. Sort of like how email programs have "reply" and "reply all," or how modern English Language has a pronoun for one person or many persons, but not one for just two (Old English does have a dual pronoun, to note).

The real reason is that it worked better for the story that way. Originally, I believe, Sanderson was going to only have mistborn, but that made them seem too common, so he went with something lesser, and still wanted to have specialties, as a holdover from when the first book was a heist novel.

[Blackharp]

I guess that makes sense! And hurray for house rules!

And oddly, I had never thought about making him as a sniper. Those were always just my two favorite metals.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

I guess that makes sense! And hurray for house rules!

And oddly, I had never thought about making him as a sniper. Those were always just my two favorite metals.

Hmm... if you want an in universe justification, you could always say that your character had an identical twin that was reabsorbed in the womb. Allomantic powers are based on spiritual genetics instead of physical ones, which means they could have a different metal

It's rare enough that it would be basically impossible to come up in setting - you need to be a chimera with different cell type in your stomach, with both siblings inheriting allomantic power. And you'd have to have the sibling get reabsorbed after the spirit web started forming.

The reason that you ended up as tin/pewter is because it's the internal/external split of the same metal.

Solid enough as a justification, I think.

Sanderson also made a comment about hemalurgy having some effects upon inheritance, so you could say your father was a Steel Inquisitor... or something along those lines.

Still the product of hemalurgy, but a generation removed.

[Inkthinker]

Hemalurgy effectively allows you to bend the rules of Allomancy and Feruchemy, at a cost (corruption and insanity, not to mention murder at some point by someone), but you can have heroic characters affected by Hemalurgy (see Spook, Zane or Vin), and they might be more interesting characters if they're being confused by Ruin/the GM and needing to make occasional spot checks to fight it.

Plus, a Coinshot with a Hemalurgic Tin spike sounds exactly like a Steel Ministry experiment. That's often my fallback for any unique combination of whatever in Mistborn Classic... over the thousand-year rule of the Empire, The Lord Ruler and the Canton did loooooots of experiments on skaa (and probably nobles), and any one of those could result in a one-off, or even a a whole program that lasts for decades, even centuries, before fading out for one reason or another a hundred years before the events of the first novel. Do you really think the Koloss were the first and last creation of The Empire? Naaaahhhh... made a lot of attempts before they found that right combination of power, stability and control.

[Ursus]

Hemalurgy effectively allows you to bend the rules of Allomancy and Feruchemy, at a cost (corruption and insanity, not to mention murder at some point by someone), but you can have heroic characters affected by Hemalurgy (see Spook, Zane or Vin), and they might be more interesting characters if they're being confused by Ruin/the GM and needing to make occasional spot checks to fight it.

Plus, a Coinshot with a Hemalurgic Tin spike sounds exactly like a Steel Ministry experiment. That's often my fallback for any unique combination of whatever in Mistborn Classic... over the thousand-year rule of the Empire, The Lord Ruler and the Canton did loooooots of experiments on skaa (and probably nobles), and any one of those could result in a one-off, or even a a whole program that lasts for decades, even centuries, before fading out for one reason or another a hundred years before the events of the first novel. Do you really think the Koloss were the first and last creation of The Empire? Naaaahhhh... made a lot of attempts before they found that right combination of power, stability and control.

It's my understanding that TLR learned everything he did about hemalurgy while holding the power of Preservation. This is when he learned about kolos, inquisitors, and kandra. If I remember correctly, everything after that resulted in not knowing the correct metals to use for spikes or not getting the extremely specific bind points right. So I'd think the 'hemalurgic experiment' route is less plausible than the twin reabsorbed or just plain hemalurgy.

[Thought]

Hmm... if you want an in universe justification, you could always say that your character had an identical twin that was reabsorbed in the womb.

Interesting idea. Could also go with the calico effect, but, of course, that means that the character would have to be female (or male with two X chromosomes, which can have a lot of other effects), and that allomantic abilities are X-linked. The dealeo there is that since women have two X genes, but each cell only really needs one, roughly 50% of the father's X gene are inactivated, and roughly 50% of the mother's X gene are inactivated (if one or the other is defective, the body can also suppress that at a higher rate). So, such a calico-person could be 50% Tineye, 50% coinshot, but not a chimera. Probably wouldn't stand up to rigorous realmatics, but hey, it's a game.

It's my understanding that TLR learned everything he did about hemalurgy while holding the power of Preservation. This is when he learned about kolos, inquisitors, and kandra. If I remember correctly, everything after that resulted in not knowing the correct metals to use for spikes or not getting the extremely specific bind points right. So I'd think the 'hemalurgic experiment' route is less plausible than the twin reabsorbed or just plain hemalurgy.

Well, the experiments failed in that they didn't create new constructs, but they might have been successful in creating a variety of specialty allomancers. Gives the vast number of hemalurgic binding points, it seems likely that you could transfer a power by placing the same spike in two different locations (although perhaps with different effects: I suspect that Zane's spike's position was responsible for some of his fine control over pushes). Really, the background would just need to be something like "Steve was the illegal son of a noble woman and a skaa. Take by the Steel Ministry, he was used in an experiment to create something cool, that failed, but Steve survived with an extra spike and associated power. Deemed useful, the Lord Ruler had him broken, indoctrinated, and put to work as an assassin for the glory of the empire."

[Inkthinker]

Also, I thought the "ultimate knowledge" thing only lasted for that time in which he held the power, and afterwards the knowledge left him with nothing more than memories of things he used to know. So a lot of time could be spent trying to recreate something that he knows is possible, but can't recall all the details of anymore.

[tecslicer]

I've been thinking about this and there are a few ramifications to allowing non-mistborn multiple metals purely as a house rule.

first and most important: what do you name them? might i sugest "dualborn". has a good parallelism. or my favorite "alloyborn" less parallel but I just like the implications.

second, you will probably want to change the rule that makes Larasium alloys "replace" existing powers with the new metal, if they are different. methinks these two rules to the allomantic system are intertwined. this might even be a good way by itself to allow your alloyborn sniper to exist.

third, if the increased connection to Preservation causes the second, or full mistborn status, to manifest; would not increasing your spirit stat add more metals? since the spirit stat is to represent your connection to the spiritual realm?

just some food for thought.

[Blackharp]

https://m.facebook.com/?refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2F&_rdr#!/photo.php?fbid=567740617776&id=168500102&set=a.567740408196.2023650.168500102&ref=bookmark&__user=0

Problem Solved!

Edit: This was written and signed by Brandon Sanderson in my copy of the core book! Woot!

Edited January 10, 2013 by Blackharp

[Windrunner]

Mind posting the picture or quoting wherever that link leads? It doesn't appear to be working for me. Thanks!

[Blackharp]

Hrm, if you have a Facebook account then it should work now. Otherwise:

[Kurkistan]

^That looks more like a special dispensation than a Cosmere-wide truth, but good for you, I suppose.

[Blackharp]

I had asked him about the 1 or all metals question while he was signing, and he said that there is no canonical way to burn more than one type of metal without being Mistborn or involving Hemalurgy. When he was originally writing Mistborn he had it so that people could only burn one metal, period. No mistborns. And then a he was writing he wanted to have some characters be obviously more powerful and the Mistborns were, well, born.

[ReaderAt2046]

Hmm... if you want an in universe justification, you could always say that your character had an identical twin that was reabsorbed in the womb. Allomantic powers are based on spiritual genetics instead of physical ones, which means they could have a different metal

It's rare enough that it would be basically impossible to come up in setting - you need to be a chimera with different cell type in your stomach, with both siblings inheriting allomantic power. And you'd have to have the sibling get reabsorbed after the spirit web started forming.

The reason that you ended up as tin/pewter is because it's the internal/external split of the same metal.

Solid enough as a justification, I think.

Sanderson also made a comment about hemalurgy having some effects upon inheritance, so you could say your father was a Steel Inquisitor... or something along those lines.

Still the product of hemalurgy, but a generation removed.

You could also fluff it as a one-in-a-trillion sDNA mutation, like how we IRL get a calf born with extra legs or Siamese twins.

[dj26792]

I could have sworn that canonically burning a leresium alloy just added that metals power to you but I wouldn't know where to look for evidence.

[Tarontos]

I could have sworn that canonically burning a leresium alloy just added that metals power to you but I wouldn't know where to look for evidence.

What actually happens is it over rights your current metal and replaces it wit the new one at the base Lerasium rating. unless you already burn what ever metal you have alloyed with then it will build up that ones level of power substantially.

[dyring]

Sanderson also made a comment about hemalurgy having some effects upon inheritance, so you could say your father was a Steel Inquisitor... or something along those lines.

Still the product of hemalurgy, but a generation removed.

Could always simply steal your dead parents spike(s).

They eye ones are abit obvious, but one(or several) of the inquisitors chest spikes could work. Would be some decay so perhaps quite weak, but still. Then you wouldent haveto kill them either. Unless your some sort of resistance and want to make use of the inquisitor you managed to kill, then you can have a group with one or two each

[dj26792]

What actually happens is it over rights your current metal and replaces it wit the new one at the base Lerasium rating. unless you already burn what ever metal you have alloyed with then it will build up that ones level of power substantially.

Is that from the RPG?

If so do we have WoB that its actually how it works and not a gameplay mechanic to balance the game? Because we've been told that while the RPG is generally accurate the specific details, particularly in how the magics work have been modified for easier/more balanced game play. We already know of a couple of examples that I can't remember off the top of my head because I don't have the game.

[Tarontos]

Is that from the RPG?

If so do we have WoB that its actually how it works and not a gameplay mechanic to balance the game? Because we've been told that while the RPG is generally accurate the specific details, particularly in how the magics work have been modified for easier/more balanced game play. We already know of a couple of examples that I can't remember off the top of my head because I don't have the game.

Yeah that's from the RPG. Don't have said copy but if you incorperate lerasium you alredy have the most valibul single refluxed so I doubt its a valence issue. Also unless something is specificly mentioned to be noncannon I'm fairly sertain its cannon.

Edit if you have lerasium you might as well become a mistborn

Edited January 18, 2013 by Tarontos