WindrunnerRadiant Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I was wondering while writing about Shards creating humans on someone else's topic about who the Shards might have been. I think it is safe to assume that some of them were humans, specifically Ruin and Preservation, as they made humans based on those on their home world pre-shattering. But were all of them human? And I think it is safe to say that there were other races pre-shattering besides humans (specifically the Listeners on Roshar, I have a whole theory relating to that here). So is it possible that one or more of the Shards were a different race? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Joe in the Bush Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) At the time of the shattering, there were three races on Yolen, Humanity, Dragonkind, and the Aethers (Chaos's note: aethers is not true). So it's quite possible that not all the shards were Human. However, Honour, Cultivation, Ruin, and Preservation are confirmed to be human. Edited May 2, 2015 by The Only Joe Important clarification to avoid false information 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeskarKomrk Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Somebody asked Brandon and he RAFO'd it. NUTIKETAIELWere the original sixteen Shardholders after the shattering all human? BRANDON SANDERSONUh … RAFO. There are three races on Yolen. Three sentient races. From here. In my opinion, it's definitely possible. As Joe says, there are three races from Yolen and we know all 16 original shardholders are from Yolen as well (further down on the same link). So I don't see why there couldn't be a non-human shardholder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Joe in the Bush Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) Plus a Shard without a Shardholder will eventually develop Sentience by its self. Edited May 2, 2015 by The Only Joe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unhinged Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I find it interesting that Brandon put in the bit at the end about sentient races, it makes me wonder if maybe a few of the shards are held by animals or plants. It would be hilarious if we reached the end of the story line and found out that Rayse was really a rat who bit Hoid at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I find it interesting that Brandon put in the bit at the end about sentient races, it makes me wonder if maybe a few of the shards are held by animals or plants. It would be hilarious if we reached the end of the story line and found out that Rayse was really a rat who bit Hoid at some point. Are you suggested that the lost loathsome creature Hoid and the recipeint of the letter have ever known, is Scabbers? Because that would be awesome. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) At the time of the shattering, there were three races on Yolen, Humanity, Dragonkind, and the Aethers. So it's quite possible that not all the shards were Human. However, Honour, Cultivation, Ruin, and Preservation are confirmed to be human. Did he confirm Aethers? I was not aware this was the case, nor do I think this is the case. (I believe this is very factually inaccurate.) Plus a Shard without a Shardholder will eventually develop Sentience by its self. I would also like a citation for this. Thanks. This fact seems very wrong to me, as Brandon said that a Shard without a holder leads to bad things, which is why Kelsier holding Preservation for a time was so important. Maybe this was a misinterpreted quote. EDIT: Having done some digging, I do think these "facts" are false, and though I am interested in seeing your evidence, I would strongly recommend not stating these things like you are with "Oh obviously this is true." You can state it as "I think this is the case" or something instead. EDIT2: So these are the quotes Weiry found (thanks Weiry): http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1086#20, http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1070#4 These are not really the same as the Shard itself gaining sentience. Brandon did say that we should be very glad that Kelsier stepped in. My interpretation is that there would be Splintering, similar catastrophic damage as was on Sel. But on Sel, Splinters did develop sentience. So I don't think it'd work like Shards simply gaining sentience. The quotes do not mean that the Shards simply gain sentience. Edited April 22, 2015 by Chaos 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkum Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 I have seen some discussion that recipient of the letter in the epigraphs of Way of Kings, who is referred to as "you old reptile," is a shard and might be a dragon. I personally like the theory, but it is pretty much pure speculation at this point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 I'm sure shards don't normally receive letters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSHtaFARian2.0 Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 (edited) I'm sure shards don't normally receive letters. While I tend to agree that I don't think the recipient of the letter is a Shardholder, I do want to point out that even with as many cosmere books out there as there are, its impossible to say WHAT a living Shardholder does and acts like. The only original Shardholders we've actually seen were all in an atypical state when we saw them. The closest we've come to seeing a living Shardholder 'onscreen' in their 'normal' state is in Alloy of Law, and they're a very unique case so hardly indicative of what the other Shards are like. As far as the others go, Endowment, Cultivation, the as yet unnamed Shards....who knows what they're like or how they actually interact with their worlds on a day to day basis? For all we know, one of the Shards we've yet to meet does spend a lot of time manifested in the Physical Realm, capable of interacting with normal humans or doing something as mundane as receiving a letter. Edited April 28, 2015 by ROSHtaFARian2.0 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjustice99 Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 While I tend to agree that I don't think the recipient of the letter is a Shardholder, I do want to point out that even with as many cosmere books out there as there are, its impossible to say WHAT a living Shardholder does and acts like. The only original Shardholders we've actually seen were all in an atypical state when we saw them. The closest we've come to seeing a living Shardholder 'onscreen' in their 'normal' state is in Alloy of Law, and they're a very unique case so hardly indicative of what the other Shards are like. As far as the others go, Endowment, Cultivation, the as yet unnamed Shards....who knows what they're like or how they actually interact with their worlds on a day to day basis? For all we know, one of the Shards we've yet to meet does spend a lot of time manifested in the Physical Realm, capable of interacting with normal humans or doing something as mundane as receiving a letter. The only living shardholder that we have directly known well is Harmony, and he hasn't held the shard long enough for us to be able to see any difference in his demeanor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSHtaFARian2.0 Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 (edited) The only living shardholder that we have directly known well is Harmony, and he hasn't held the shard long enough for us to be able to see any difference in his demeanor. Right, that's what I meant by him not being indicative of what other Shards are like. Edited April 28, 2015 by ROSHtaFARian2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkum Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Also, the letter refers to the recipient as "essentially immortal" which doesn't describe a whole lot of people who aren't shards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeskarKomrk Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Also, the letter refers to the recipient as "essentially immortal" which doesn't describe a whole lot of people who aren't shards Except for anyone who can compound Atium or any Returned, as long as they have enough of their respective resource to survive (atium and Breath). Kandra as well, for that matter. So the recipient of the letter could be any of these three, in addition to other magical methods I'm forgetting or we're not aware of yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Except for anyone who can compound Atium or any Returned, as long as they have enough of their respective resource to survive (atium and Breath). Kandra as well, for that matter. So the recipient of the letter could be any of these three, in addition to other magical methods I'm forgetting or we're not aware of yet. Heralds. Whatever Hoid is using, which the 17th Shard members likely know of on top of all other immortality methods they probably know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Actually I believe you can attain agelessness with enough breath even without being Returned. I'm sure each shards system can grant it to someone if you had the right combination except maybe Ruin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindel Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 except maybe Ruin. Immortality on Scadrial is created through Allomancy and Feruchemy, which means it's at least partially of Ruin. Just thought I'd point that out. And if you've spiked someone to turn them into a compounder, then there's a whole lot of Ruin going on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Immortality on Scadrial is created through Allomancy and Feruchemy, which means it's at least partially of Ruin. Just thought I'd point that out. And if you've spiked someone to turn them into a compounder, then there's a whole lot of Ruin going on there. But ruin by its self can not preservation could have if it wanted to I'm sure. Ruin in fact is the best system for jury rigging immortality from other powers but unable to grant anything directly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Actually I believe you can attain agelessness with enough breath even without being Returned. I'm sure each shards system can grant it to someone if you had the right combination except maybe Ruin. I believe total agelessness is fifth heightening. Which is how much the divine breath is worth, hence Returned being ageless. So many ways to live forever these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Yay I couldn't remember what heightening it was. Night blood is in theory of the 4th all be it a corrupt 4th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Can awakened objects be heightened? It's a good question. Nobody pours that much breath in anything except Returned, and Returned have human bodies. It's weird a sword even has senses in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindrunnerRadiant Posted May 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 The only living shardholder that we have directly known well is Harmony, and he hasn't held the shard long enough for us to be able to see any difference in his demeanor. Two things about this. One, Sazed was a fairly harmonious person in the first place, so his personality might not change much. Two, Sazed holds two shard with opposite intentions to them. One changes its holder to seek to preserve everything and the other changes its holder to want to destroy everything. Therefor, the effects could very well be cancelled out and Sazed's personality might not change at all due the shards themselves. On the other hand, who knows what holding that kind of power could do to him over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 This is Sazed we're talking about. Harmonious? He's subdued and more on the docile side like most of his people, but harmonious? He's one of the few if not only rebels in Keeper history, and the Hero of Ages. His name shall be Discord, and they shall love him for it. He's adopting a non-interventional attitude despite intervening in things being what he's done all his life. He helped crush an entire empire. Something did change in him, this isn't really normal (the fact that he still cares enough to try to do things indirectly is normal though). Inaction is definitely not something from the holder himself here. The prophecy itself described him as the very opposite of Harmony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the winter system Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) What about Vin's interactions with Ati? He seemed pretty normal to me, even if he was missing some atium. Edited May 16, 2015 by Winter Cloud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iarvos Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) I have seen some discussion that recipient of the letter in the epigraphs of Way of Kings, who is referred to as "you old reptile," is a shard and might be a dragon. I personally like the theory, but it is pretty much pure speculation at this point.I believe There's actually WOB on the dragon part. Ok found the reference - it's not recorded, so it is a soft word, but it's at least more than speculation.http://www.tor.com/2013/08/15/the-way-of-kings-reread-epigraphs-to-part-two/ Edited May 19, 2015 by Iarvos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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