Krelian Posted March 24, 2013 Posted March 24, 2013 Breaths don't need direct contact once you reach the right Heightening either. Granted, that's incredibly rare on Nalthis, but still, proves it's possible in theory.
dyring Posted March 24, 2013 Posted March 24, 2013 Breaths don't need direct contact once you reach the right Heightening either. Granted, that's incredibly rare on Nalthis, but still, proves it's possible in theory. Hmm. Lets see if I can explain what I mean better, cause I don't think it got through my text:) The act of drawing, if you can appoint a stick to do the line wich will make the Aeons instead of your fingers, then you should be able to do so with your mind only, imagining a line being made. Since there is obviously no other magic in the stick itself. Cause if you draw a line with a stick, there is obviously nothing magical with the line itself. Its all coming from your mind. Its like saying a 10:th heightening awakener can awaken something if he picks up a random stick(or anything at all) and poke it with from 30 feets, but not with his mind alone. Wich would be kinda odd to me;). Thou I suppose that might be the way those who are to be Elantrians are choosen. Takes those got the spiritual DNA for using Aeons, and turn them into Elantrians when they start to get access to their powers. That would explain the lack of "normal" magicusers, and that they are all so powerful. I´v always just assumed it was a part of Aona who turned those who was truly devoted to something. (Raoden to the people, Galladon to farming, Baron Aanded to sculpting, etc etc.
Senor Feesh Posted March 24, 2013 Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) The stick doesn't need to be magical. It's intent and Investiture combined with physical action. It doesn't matter that the action is 'focused' away from the Elantrian's body, they, not the stick, create the Aon. The stick by itself does nothing, it merely delineates a form, in space, which the Elantrian chooses to allow to Dor to come through. They could just as feasibly carve an Aon with a chisel, or urinate an Aon into snow if they so chose, but the point is, as an Invested entity, they choose. Edited March 24, 2013 by Senor Feesh 2
dyring Posted March 24, 2013 Posted March 24, 2013 That is one of the points. If its a matter of them choosing, and that the aeon does not need to be visible, would they not with training be able to do it fully mentally? By imagining the symbol so to speak. If its their choice that matters. It doesent fit logically. If 1+1 is 2, and 2+1+1 is 4, then 2+2 should be 4 aswell;) Nevermind thou. Its a magical thing. Sometimes, logic just doesent need to work in it. just used to it doing so in these magic systems;)
Senor Feesh Posted March 24, 2013 Posted March 24, 2013 Because envisioning a symbol and the act of drawing it are different things, and BOTH need to happen. I'm sorry, I don't see where the issue lies here. I'm not trying to be difficult, just having trouble seeing the issue. It's the same as with Awakening, a Command by itself is worthless, visualising a Command without speaking it is useless - you have to do BOTH or nothing happens. With Aons it's the same, the act of drawing the Aon (with or without an implement) is analogous to speaking a Command, and needs the reinforcement of the directing mind to actually make an Aon (and not just wave your finger in the air).
dyring Posted March 24, 2013 Posted March 24, 2013 2 things. First - In awakening, you cant poke at something colored with a stick, you gotto touch it yourself. And secondly, In awakening that is no longer true with sufficient breath. You no longer need to even speak the commands. Nevermind thou, Ill drop this until some day I feel like actually make a real theory around it.
Krelian Posted March 24, 2013 Posted March 24, 2013 Exactly, if you have enough Breaths, you don't have to touch the object. Susebron Awakened all the cloth in the whole palace, essentially, on instinct, once he could speak the initial intent to Awaken things. Any Investiture is likely the same. Intent and will are the essential components. The physical contact is just a help if you don't have enough power to just make things happen on your own easily.
Phantom Monstrosity Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 The fact that you can use tools to draw things is obvious. After all, an elantran can write with a pen, right? He doesn't have to constantly abrade dead skin off his fingertips to write in the air, either. As long as it's the 'act' of writing, regardless of the method used it counts. yes, that means an elantrian with a laser gun could put an aon on the moon. DDDeal with it.
Alatar he/him Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) I think the thing with the stick is the physical part of the magic, you need to place the forms and you need to do it physically, with any tool you can. Also, you need to connect physically, either directly or through a tool. Elantrians just have the glowing fingers as an extra tool for drawing. The same with having to touch the Aons to undo them, it's not enough to will it, you have to touch. Apart, I think you're right, with enough raw power you can overcame the physical part, but we don't know how much power you would need to do that... About having a crazy elantrian dispell Elantris... I suppose this is a matter of Investiture, you must be able to handle the Dor placed in the Aon to unravel it. You try to dispell Elantris, you probably get burnt out before you took away 0,1% of the power invested in the Aon. Same with the rest of Aons, there can be lesser Aons which anyone can dispell, and some so powerful that nobody can. I see it as the Ashe plates for light. You can draw an Ashe Aon in the air and invest it with the Dor but they made Ashe plates so that any Elantrian could invest or dispell them, without the need to draw them. Maybe they could power any correctly drawed Aon, even if it wasn't drawed by themselves. Or even if it was drawn by a non elantrian, although I see reasons that only Aons drawed by elantrians could be powered. Edited March 25, 2013 by Alatar 1
Voidus Posted March 26, 2013 Posted March 26, 2013 I think you're putting to much emphasis on the act of drawing, it's not the act of drawing, it's the form that you create, the Dor needs a physical outlet through which its energy could escape. Elantrians have the capability of bringing the Dor to the actual form but the form still needs to exist, its physical shape altering the energy. You couldn't just visualise one in your mind any more than visualising Lerasium in your mind would let you burn it.
Phantom Monstrosity Posted March 26, 2013 Posted March 26, 2013 (edited) Eh, technically with a MRI and a lot of practice you MIGHT be able to contort your mental state to a point where you got an aon shape represented using blood flow in the brain or something. It'd just be a terrible idea on every level. Edited March 26, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity
Senor Feesh Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 Given that we know (or have very compelling evidence) that all magics on Sel are form-based and region-specific, I'd love to see a map of Fjorden with the pre-empire provinces marked out (so we knew the shape of Jindo, Svorden, etc). Was just looking at the Coppermind page on ChayShan, and the description of moving in 'specific circular patterns' got me wondering if Jindo was originally quite circular. Of course, it's just as possible that the hand-and-foot motions of ChayShan are actually describing the forms, or even the shape of the whole body. Roll on Elantris 2!
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