TheSpartanDuck he/him Posted April 9, 2015 Author Posted April 9, 2015 The term PI and High Epic is just a matter of opinion, but yes, I went back and double checked, and I AM correct. El Brass Bullish Dude is mentioned in Firefight, and is claimed to have PI,'but we still can't deter if High Epic and PI go hand in hand. (Well they kinda do but...) We don't have any evidence of any High Epics not having PI, (again, that is if you count Regalia as a High Epic,) but we do have evidence of some lower Epics having some forms PI, ex. Newton, Fortuity. I suppose there could be some High Epics who DONT have PI...
TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Where is he mentioned? I thought he was only given a passing mention in Steelheart.
natc Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 I don't remember seeing his name either. Coppermind also only has mention of him from a line in Steelheart. Which actually suggested that he's from LA.
Paranoid King he/him Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 So, as a preacher, what would Obliteration's weakness be? Having people ignore him? Atheists?
TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 So, as a preacher, what would Obliteration's weakness be? Having people ignore him? Atheists? It's impossible to say for sure until we read Calamity, but given how he acted and the things he said in Firefight, I think his weakness has something to do with mankind's darker nature. Perhaps some senseless act of violence—a crime committed against his family, a newsworthy tragedy that hit too close to home—where the only motive was "Because I wanted to" inspired him to become a preacher. Reminders of that tragedy might remind him that not all people want to change, and might make him think that this sort of evil is spreading and will continue to spread unless he stops it.
Edgedancer he/him Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) The term PI and High Epic is just a matter of opinion, but yes, I went back and double checked, and I AM correct. El Brass Bullish Dude is mentioned in Firefight, and is claimed to have PI,'but we still can't deter if High Epic and PI go hand in hand. (Well they kinda do but...) We don't have any evidence of any High Epics not having PI, (again, that is if you count Regalia as a High Epic,) but we do have evidence of some lower Epics having some forms PI, ex. Newton, Fortuity. I suppose there could be some High Epics who DONT have PI... Steelheart chapter one: He [Fortuity] could also sense danger, and that elevated him to High Epic status. and in chapter 37 of Firefight David refers to Newton as a High Epic. (aka. as far as we know Epic with PI = High Epic, which fits the definitions.) The story about Puño de Fuego, which I still think you're actually refering to, is in chapter 31 of Firefight and a word search on my e-book says El Brass Bullish Dude doesn't get mentioned in Firefight. Edited April 9, 2015 by Edgedancer
TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Steelheart chapter one: and in chapter 37 of Firefight David refers to Newton as a High Epic. (aka. as far as we know Epic with PI = High Epic, which fits the definitions.) The story about Puño de Fuego, which I still think you're actually refering to, is in chapter 31 of Firefight and a word search on my e-book says El Brass Bullish Dude doesn't get mentioned in Firefight. It just occurred to me: Newcago has a very regimented society, where the rights you have are determined by your power level (well, until Conflux blows that story to smithereens, but that's beside the point). What if the Newcago definition of High Epic encompasses everyone with strong powers that make easy assassination impossible, while the Lorist definition excludes everyone who doesn't have some form of immortality or projectile deflection? David's correction of himself in Firefight could then be taken as his attempts to switch over to "proper" Lorist classification while trying to rewrite the definition he's used for the past few years.
TheSpartanDuck he/him Posted April 9, 2015 Author Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) Ok sorry spent last hour doing calculations. A.) Yes, I read and remember that Val and David talked in the sub about that take down, and how Sam had later after that mission had 'found El Brass Bullish Dude's arm three streets over' after the Epic had throw a tank through the command post's wall and she claimed in for safety. (I might be wrong, I think he was in New Mexico, but it was either Mexico or New Mexico) B.) I had some ideas for Obliteration's weakness, but nothing can be considered correct until Calamity comes out, because we have no idea EXACTLY what Regalia's surgery did to Obliteration, besides just giving his cool down time nearly instant. The operation mighta made his power even more complex and difficult to get to, but he was already so complex... C.) I have a hunch that Obliteration will come back in Calamity and be a help in containing Prof, killing Calamity, and just being an overall help. This is backed up by Obliteration saying that mysterious line at the end when he left and was very... Understanding? Also, I HIGHLY doubt that ONLY MEGAN who JUST learned to calmly control and empower herself using her abilities, and not be consumed by her evils will be enough to kill the original Epic, and contain/kill the most powerful Epic alive. And if David DOES have powers, well, he JUST got them, and it will be difficult for him to find his weakness, control it, and fight to the best ability. They also hint that the Reckoners, or well, MORE than hint, OUTRIGHT STATE, that they'll need other Epics to fight 'an Epic war.' A 'war they wouldn't've started if they knew they couldn't win.' Edited April 9, 2015 by TheSpartanDuck
Voidus Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 Ok sorry spent last hour doing calculations. A.) Yes, I read and remember that Val and David talked in the sub about that take down, and how Sam had later after that mission had 'found El Brass Bullish Dude's arm three streets over' after the Epic had throw a tank through the command post's wall and she claimed in for safety. (I might be wrong, I think he was in New Mexico, but it was either Mexico or New Mexico) B.) I had some ideas for Obliteration's weakness, but nothing can be considered correct until Calamity comes out, because we have no idea EXACTLY what Regalia's surgery did to Obliteration, besides just giving his cool down time nearly instant. The operation mighta made his power even more complex and difficult to get to, but he was already so complex... C.) I have a hunch that Obliteration will come back in Calamity and be a help in containing Prof, killing Calamity, and just being an overall help. This is backed up by Obliteration saying that mysterious line at the end when he left and was very... Understanding? Also, I HIGHLY doubt that ONLY MEGAN who JUST learned to calmly control and empower herself using her abilities, and not be consumed by her evils will be enough to kill the original Epic, and contain/kill the most powerful Epic alive. And if David DOES have powers, well, he JUST got them, and it will be difficult for him to find his weakness, control it, and fight to the best ability. They also hint that the Reckoners, or well, MORE than hint, OUTRIGHT STATE, that they'll need other Epics to fight 'an Epic war.' A 'war they wouldn't've started if they knew they couldn't win.' “The hit on Puños de Fuego!” I exclaimed. “How do you know about that?” Val asked. “Oh man. Was it true, did he really throw a tank at you?” Val kept her eyes forward, tapping a button on the sub’s control panel. “Yeah,” she finally said. “An entire flippin’ tank. Broke open the wall of our base of operations.” From the book, the scene you're thinking of definitely wasn't El Brass Bullish Dude 1
king of nowhere Posted April 11, 2015 Posted April 11, 2015 basically, it seems the definition of high epic isn't clear-cut, while the definition of prime invincibility is. 1
Voidus Posted April 11, 2015 Posted April 11, 2015 basically, it seems the definition of high epic isn't clear-cut, while the definition of prime invincibility is. Which makes sense, a bunch of different people with different systems probably thought up the term 'High Epic': There's the lorists, David, there's probably also a colloquial useage that people on the street use. Prime Invincibility is David's own term and he's the only one we know who uses it so there's just his definition.
Blackhoof Posted April 11, 2015 Posted April 11, 2015 I think you are thinking of Puenos de Fuego- who was stated as not having a PI, just being really tough. Val shot him with a tank. I think a Prime Invincibility is a defensive power that can't be defeated just by bringing more raw firepower. Intangibility, immunity to all harm, precognition that activates far enough in advance it can't be overcome with a really big bomb, reincarnation, etc. I don't think that is strictly true- by that definition, Fortuity wouldn't be a High Epic or have a PI because he was checkmated by a few simple shots. A Prime Invincibility just has to be strong enough that conventional methods of assassination aren't viable. You need to tailor each attack based on the PI- you can't kill Obliteration the same way as Newton or Fortuity. In Firefight for instance they discussed ways of circumventing the PIs of Newton and Oblit (by drowning and sticky bombs, respectively). They couldn't have done this and still referred to them as High Epics if your definition holds.
TheSpartanDuck he/him Posted April 13, 2015 Author Posted April 13, 2015 I think you are thinking of Puenos de Fuego- who was stated as not having a PI, just being really tough. Val shot him with a tank. I don't think that is strictly true- by that definition, Fortuity wouldn't be a High Epic or have a PI because he was checkmated by a few simple shots. A Prime Invincibility just has to be strong enough that conventional methods of assassination aren't viable. You need to tailor each attack based on the PI- you can't kill Obliteration the same way as Newton or Fortuity. In Firefight for instance they discussed ways of circumventing the PIs of Newton and Oblit (by drowning and sticky bombs, respectively). They couldn't have done this and still referred to them as High Epics if your definition holds. I agree.
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