+Slowswift Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 If this has been pointed out elsewhere, ignore me. But if not, then I found a cool thing. Yay! Also, potential spoilers below. Caveat lector. ~ So it appears that the Lightweavers, with their "strange and varied mnemonic abilities," (WoR p. 566, Kindle edition) weren't the only ones with extra perks granted via Nahel bond that don't involve spren or Surges (assuming that the enhanced memory is indeed caused by that). Reference chapter 55's epigraph (WoR p. 636, Kindle edition): The considerable abilities of the Skybreakers for making such amounted to an almost divine skill, for which no specific Surge of spren grants capacity, but however the order came to such an aptitude, the fact of it was real and acknowledged even by their rivals. -- From Words of Radiance, chapter 28, page 3 Never tells us what they're freakishly good at, does it? But I noticed that the page referenced sounded familiar. In the previous chapter, that same page of Words of Radiance is referenced. It says: There came also sixteen of the order of Windrunners, and with them a considerable number of squires, and finding in that place the Skybreakers dividing the innocent from the guilty, there ensued a great debate. -- From Words of Radiance, chapter 28, page 3 This seems to imply that the Skybreakers have an unusual ability to distinguish between those who are guilty and those who are innocent. Fitting, as the Skybreakers put the law above all else. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHOUTAGOD Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Ill take them over our judges any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Ill take them over our judges any day. Given that they followed Nin/Darkness, I would not. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Given that they followed Nin/Darkness, I would not. Hey, he may be a psychopath, but he is a psychopathic lawman who only murders on legal pretenses. He just has a knack for finding legal pretenses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Actually, my post was purely a quip.I actually think the Skybreakers were generally trustworthy. Hey, he may be a psychopath, but he is a psychopathic lawman who only murders on legal pretenses. He just has a knack for finding legal pretenses. Whether and when Nin got corrupted is a subject of intense interest for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curiosity Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Yeah, Kaladin has a perk called "Strength of Squires", whatever that means.* And Jasnah seems to know exactly where she's going all of the time. So I would venture to say that you might be on the right track. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 And be sure to remember Shallan's excellent Memory (yes, it's capitalized). Each order has certain perks. The Edgedancers' perk is probably being awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHOUTAGOD Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 My point has been made Encore!!!! Encore I say!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 My point has been made Encore!!!! Encore I say!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 And be sure to remember Shallan's excellent Memory (yes, it's capitalized). Each order has certain perks. The Edgedancers' perk is probably being awesome. What do Dustbringers get? A pyrotechnics degree? They do mention fire and dustbringers a lot, so I imagine whatever they use their surges for would get pretty flashy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Ninja Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Hmm, I'd read those epigraphs as the Skybreakers being very good at starting debates/arguments, much to the annoyance of all the other Orders. But you could read it as them being good at separating the guilty from the innocent. The term used ("for making such") works a bit better for the first intrepretation, it would work better for yours if it was along the lines of "for making such a determination", but even without you can stretch it to work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arondell Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 There has been some speculation in the past that that passage might be referring to an unusual ability to craft fabrials. It is pretty clear, if Nalan is any example, that the Skybreakers were big on order. Now who else has also expressed a love of order? Navani. This was the mark of humankind: to take the wild, unorganized world and make something logical of it. You could get so much more done when everything was in its place, when you could easily find what or whom you needed. Creativity required such things. Careful planning was, indeed, the water that nourished innovation.Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 412). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. So add these together and it might be a hint that the Skybreakers had an unusual gift for fabrial construction. Something "for which no specific Surge of spren grants capacity." I thought it was an interesting speculation since it didn't require the surge. Just the right attitude towards order. As an aside Navani's thoughts on this plus a few other events has been seen as circumstantial evidence that Navani could be a potential Skybreaker candidate.(e.g. Her kneeling before the giant glyph of justice in WoK.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galendo Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 For what it's worth, I also interpreted that passage as saying that the Skybreakers were good at debating. It's probably not a supernatural ability, since it's one for which "...no specific spren or Surge grants capacity...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvoraen Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 I think Skybreakers have Cognitive if not Spiritual sight, which they get from their (high)spren emulating what Nale can do. (Which is that he seems extremely discerning when it concerns people who can Invest.) The standard use for this sight is that they can "read" people to see whether or not they are, say, trying to hide something. A kind of left-brained empath, if you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 I've always read this as Nalan teaching the Skybreakers to be super-competent at determining guilt/investigating people/interrogating people. It's not the Skybreaker special power, like Kaladin's strength of squires, since "no specific spren ... grants capacity", but it could definitely be something Nalan taught and had passed down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) I've always read this as Nalan teaching the Skybreakers to be super-competent at determining guilt/investigating people/interrogating people. It's not the Skybreaker special power, like Kaladin's strength of squires, since "no specific spren ... grants capacity", but it could definitely be something Nalan taught and had passed down. The quote I read above was "no specific Surge of spren ... grants capacity," as a result, it seems to fit perfectly as a Skybreaker special power as it relates intrinsically to their purpose and aspect of Honor. Yes, it isn't part of the Gravity or Division surges. Edited March 10, 2015 by hoser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 The quote I read above was "no specific Surge of spren ... grants capacity," as a result, it seems to fit perfectly as a Skybreaker special power as it relates intrinsically to their purpose and aspect of Honor. Yes, it isn't part of the Gravity or Division surges. Here's the quote from my copy of WoR: The considerable abilities of the Skybreakers for making such amounted to an almost divine skill, for which no specific Surge or spren grants capacity, but however the order came to such an aptitude, the fact of it was real and acknowledged even by their rivals. —From Words of Radiance, chapter 28, page 3 Skybreakers gain their powers through bonding a highspren. If there were no highspren, there would be no special Skybreaker power. Because of this, I think it's perfectly reasonable to say Shallan's Memories are caused by Pattern, and in a similar way this feature of the Skybreakers not be intrinsic to Skybreakers, but rather be something the order as a whole picked up elsewhere. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unhinged Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 So add these together and it might be a hint that the Skybreakers had an unusual gift for fabrial construction. Something "for which no specific Surge of spren grants capacity." I thought it was an interesting speculation since it didn't require the surge. Just the right attitude towards order. Hmm, perhaps some kind of lie detector fabrial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 My hardcover matches yours. Please forgive me for my laziness in relying on a previous post. I've always read this as Nalan teaching the Skybreakers to be super-competent at determining guilt/investigating people/interrogating people. It's not the Skybreaker special power, like Kaladin's strength of squires, since "no specific spren ... grants capacity", but it could definitely be something Nalan taught and had passed down. I do quibble with your placement of the ellipsis in this post, but it is not important. Here's the quote from my copy of WoR: The considerable abilities of the Skybreakers for making such amounted to an almost divine skill, for which no specific Surge or spren grants capacity, but however the order came to such an aptitude, the fact of it was real and acknowledged even by their rivals. —From Words of Radiance, chapter 28, page 3 Skybreakers gain their powers through bonding a highspren. If there were no highspren, there would be no special Skybreaker power. Because of this, I think it's perfectly reasonable to say Shallan's Memories are caused by Pattern, and in a similar way this feature of the Skybreakers not be intrinsic to Skybreakers, but rather be something the order as a whole picked up elsewhere. Your interpretation makes sense. Nin could have taught the Skybreakers. Though I lack evidence, dividing the guilty fits so well with the order that I believe it is a special ability of the Skybreakers. This next part is making an argument to fit my prejudices, and obviously suspect, but hopefully not guilty. Some of the abilities Kaladin gets from Syl are just spren abilities. She can change orientation freely and stick things together, both Windrunner abilities. One could argue that "strength of squires" is not a spren ability, however. I understand your point that the Knights have relationships with specific spren and all their knightly abilities follow, but I wonder whether the in-world book is making a different distinction. Is the point that some or all of the Radiant special abilities are ones that the spren themselves don't possess, but come to the bonded from another source, possibly the Shards? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worldhopper Posted March 14, 2015 Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 Perhaps it's more of a personal or internal nature of the chosen Radiant. Syl doesn't make Kaladin care for others, it was something already in his nature. Szeth seems to be able to make tough and usually devastating decisions based on his goals. He doesn't question it, it is just something that must be done. Kind of like an officer of the law or judge. Perhaps that ability is what their spren seek in potential Radiant candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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