Sirce Luckwielder Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 .... Quick question concerning these quotes. Do you think that Taravangian lied about the Honorblade being stolen to keep Szeth, or do you think somebody actually has another one? Nalan is pretty scary on his own, but if he had his original Honorblade . . . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgedancer Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) Quick question concerning these quotes. Do you think that Taravangian lied about the Honorblade being stolen to keep Szeth, or do you think somebody actually has another one? Nalan is pretty scary on his own, but if he had his original Honorblade . . . One Herald did reclaim his blade and popular guess is that it's Nale. The part about the Edgedancer or Truthwatcher blade being stolen was quite certainly crem. Edited March 12, 2015 by Edgedancer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Quick question concerning these quotes. Do you think that Taravangian lied about the Honorblade being stolen to keep Szeth, or do you think somebody actually has another one? Nalan is pretty scary on his own, but if he had his original Honorblade . . . This discussion has occured in other threads a while ago (potentially near the end of last year). The consensus, if I recall correctly, was that Taravangian was telling the truth and lieing at the same time. We know one of the blades is missing, but it being one that allows Regrowth is likely a lie, or at least he has no idea which one was taken and is passing off a guess as truth. He did know, if I recall the books correctly, that the individual Szeth fought was a Surgebinder, though, and chose to keep that knowledge from Szeth to ensure the Shin continued to follow orders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimiddle04 Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 This discussion has occured in other threads a while ago (potentially near the end of last year). The consensus, if I recall correctly, was that Taravangian was telling the truth and lieing at the same time. We know one of the blades is missing, but it being one that allows Regrowth is likely a lie, or at least he has no idea which one was taken and is passing off a guess as truth. He did know, if I recall the books correctly, that the individual Szeth fought was a Surgebinder, though, and chose to keep that knowledge from Szeth to ensure the Shin continued to follow orders. In the original version it doesn't really explain what power Nale used to restore Szeth, but in this updated version he definitely has to heal his soul-less hand. I mean what use would a one handed champion be? My question then is how would Nale accomplish this with his own Blade? He should only have Gravitation and Division. We don't know a lot about Division, but I don't see it being a surge that allows him to repair severed souls. Thoughts or explanations? It's been a little while since I've read so maybe I'm just not seeing something that is obvious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 The Shin have two Honorblades with Regrowth, I haven't noticed until now we have confirmed neither Vedel nor Pailiah is the Herald who went back. In the original version it doesn't really explain what power Nale used to restore Szeth, but in this updated version he definitely has to heal his soul-less hand. I mean what use would a one handed champion be? Look up Rand Al'Thor, Luke Skywalker and Jaime Lannister My question then is how would Nale accomplish this with his own Blade? He should only have Gravitation and Division. We don't know a lot about Division, but I don't see it being a surge that allows him to repair severed souls. Thoughts or explanations? It's been a little while since I've read so maybe I'm just not seeing something that is obvious. In the first version Nale most likely used a fabrial with Regrowth - the same sub-surge Lift used to heal (or bring back to life) Gawx. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Am I remembering incorrectly or does the Stormfather actually call Kaladin "Rider of Storms" in WoK? If I am remembering it right I think this "clarification" actually confuses things a little. To me at least. It seems possible that Windrunners would "ride the storms" from the perspective of the Stormfather and the Listeners see the Stormfather as the Rider of Storms, but I agree that it is confusing. MEN RIDE THE STORMS NO LONGER. The voice was thunder, crashing in the air. THE OATHPACT IS BROKEN, CHILD OF HONOR. “I don’t understand!” Kaladin screamed into the tempest. A face formed before him, the face he had seen before, the aged face as wide as the sky, its eyes full of stars.Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive) (p. 648). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. Quick question concerning these quotes. Do you think that Taravangian lied about the Honorblade being stolen to keep Szeth, or do you think somebody actually has another one? Nalan is pretty scary on his own, but if he had his original Honorblade . . . This discussion has occured in other threads a while ago (potentially near the end of last year). The consensus, if I recall correctly, was that Taravangian was telling the truth and lieing at the same time. We know one of the blades is missing, but it being one that allows Regrowth is likely a lie, or at least he has no idea which one was taken and is passing off a guess as truth. He did know, if I recall the books correctly, that the individual Szeth fought was a Surgebinder, though, and chose to keep that knowledge from Szeth to ensure the Shin continued to follow orders. IIRC, the consensus was that Taravangian totally made up the story about the stolen Honorblade. The Shin never had the missing blade, as a Herald went back for it (presumably from the original ring of blades that we saw in tWoK). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimiddle04 Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Look up Rand Al'Thor, Luke Skywalker and Jaime Lannister Luke gets a robotic awesome hand almost right away, and Jaime and Rand are never the swordsman they once were. So as far as champions go you wouldn't want either of the two who remained handless to be the one dueling for you. Just sayin... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wetlander Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Is it specifically stated (either way) in the new text whether or not Szeth's hand was restored when Nalan healed/resurrected him? I suspect that Brandon is dealing with a "how the magic works" question with revising the ending. If the fabrial can heal the rest of the body but not the Blade-severed hand, it means that there is a vast difference between what Kaladin could do through his bond with Sylphrena (WoR Ch. 33) and what either Szeth or Nalan can do with an Honorblade or a fabrial. If Szeth's hand has not, in fact, been healed, it is Significant, and makes it absolutely necessary that it was only the hand that was soul-severed. If neither the Honorblade nor the fabrial can heal that hand, it should also have been impossible for either to heal his soul being severed from his body, as it was with the SylBlade passing through his spine. If this is really the case, and Brandon hadn't quite worked out some of the further implications of healing, I can totally see why he felt it was vital to correct this now. I'm guessing that we'll find out soon that Stormlight can be used to heal most wounds - even those caused by a Shardblade, as long as they didn't pass all the way through a body part. BUT... you need a Nahel bond - not just Stormlight, but a living spren - to heal a soul-severing. Of course, if some part of the text I haven't seen makes it clear that Szeth's hand is whole again, this is all pipe-dreaming. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I suspect that Brandon is dealing with a "how the magic works" question with revising the ending. If the fabrial can heal the rest of the body but not the Blade-severed hand, it means that there is a vast difference between what Kaladin could do through his bond with Sylphrena (WoR Ch. 33) and what either Szeth or Nalan can do with an Honorblade or a fabrial. Why are you equating fabrials and Honorblades? It could easily be that Honorblades can heal soul wounds but fabrials can't. Remember that Brandon has said on multiple occaisions that there are multiple differences between what Szeth claims he can't do and what Kaladin actually does (not just the 10-heartbeat thing). It could easily be that Szeth could heal soul wounds, but because he thinks he can't the power won't work (not that he's ever been soul wounded to try). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wetlander Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Why are you equating fabrials and Honorblades? I don't equate them, per se, except in their proposed mutual inability to heal soul-severing. Since neither of them have a living spren bond involved, it seems logical that if a Nahel bond is needed to heal soul-severing, neither of them could do it. Honorblades give access to Surgebinding, but they predated the development of the living spren bonding of the Radiants; I think we can confidently say that an Honorblade is not a spren the way a living Shardblade is. A fabrial involves a living but captive spren, and no personal bond to a human is present. Therefore, it seems logical that neither fabrials (which Nalan appears to be using) nor Honorblades (which Szeth was using) are able to heal a soul-severed appendage - much less a whole soul-and-body severing. This is going back to Brandon's statement about "it’s an important plot point for the series that dead Shardblades cannot heal the soul, while living ones can." I don't know if this is where he was going, but it seems like a possibility. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I don't equate them, per se, except in their proposed mutual inability to heal soul-severing. Since neither of them have a living spren bond involved, it seems logical that if a Nahel bond is needed to heal soul-severing, neither of them could do it. AH! Okay, my brain conviniently skipped over that whole Nahel necessary bit Apologies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wetlander Posted March 14, 2015 Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 No worries. My sentences get too involved sometimes... especially when I'm just thinking at the keyboard and don't spend time editing for clarity! It's all notions and suppositions at this stage; it was just a thought that made a certain amount of sense to me. We'll have to wait and RAFO, I expect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triasmus Posted March 14, 2015 Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 Two reasons for why I believe Szeth's hand is healed: 1) I just barely read somewhere(I believe in the recent reddit AMA that was linked to in either this thread or one of the many other threads) WoB that future books will be written in such a way that it won't matter what version of WoR we've read, it'll be the same. From that I would think that it's a logical conclusion that Szeth's hand is healed. 2) I don't think that Brandon would have published the book in the first place if the healing of Szeth's soul with that fabrial didn't agree with the rules of the magic system. I'm pretty sure that the only real change is the characterization of Kaladin, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted March 14, 2015 Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) The problem I see with it not healing the severed hand is that he makes little mention of the original version (where the entire soul gets severed and heals anyway) being mechanically inconsistent with how he wants magic to work. So what Triasmus said. Edited March 14, 2015 by natc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted March 14, 2015 Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 The problem I see with it not healing the severed hand is that he makes little mention of the original version (where the entire soul gets severed and heals anyway) being mechanically inconsistent with how he wants magic to work. That's a Regrowth Fabrial that Nale used. Regrowth =/= SIR (Stormlight Induced Regeneration). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted March 15, 2015 Report Share Posted March 15, 2015 That's a Regrowth Fabrial that Nale used. Regrowth =/= SIR (Stormlight Induced Regeneration). I was implying that his hand is probably fine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taveren Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 at least this makes his coming back to life more likely since before it would have taken way to long for the body to fall through the storm and land. if he died at the fall then he would only be dead for seconds instead of minuets 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triasmus Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 I don't know.... they're still at the front of the highstorm. I thought it took hours for highstorms to pass, and when Szeth wakes up he doesn't mention anything about being in the middle of a highstorm. ... actually, now I'm just thinking that Nale probably used a transportation fabrial to grab the body and then get out real quick, then immediately using the regrowth fabrial to heal. In the end of my thinking, I agree with the previous post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N006+ard4life Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Yes, though I'm interested to see how it actually plays out. Given his abilities, Szeth being killed by the storm smells slightly off suicide, an action forbidden to him and one he has avoided in the past. On a separate note, Brandon's explanation surprised me because this is not the message I took from that final sequence, and I don't think I've seen it postulated here on the forums either. Edit: double ninja'd! Obviously we're all thinking the same thing. I'm not so sure I care for the new ending... I have to agree with you, it does smell of suicide. I honestly didn't have any problem with Kaladin killing Szeth, I didn't see it as vengeance, I saw it as him protecting those he's vowed to protect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 I'm not so sure I care for the new ending... I have to agree with you, it does smell of suicide. I honestly didn't have any problem with Kaladin killing Szeth, I didn't see it as vengeance, I saw it as him protecting those he's vowed to protect. Honestly the suicide bit is moot because even in the old one he avoided parrying the blow on purpose. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erai Sedai Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 When will the updated version of WoR be available in Hardback? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masaru Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) Edit: My iBook was updated to the new tweaked version yesterday (at least that's when I was notified the update was available in iBooks. Edited April 16, 2015 by masaru 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navybrandt Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) Szeth committing suicide is not a problem. His prohibition on suicide was because he was Truthless, but he realizes at the end that he's not. He says, "Then I was right all along. I was never Truthless. I could have stopped the murders at any time." That's when Szeth stops fighting and gives up and lets Kaladin kill him (or sever his hand). Edit: Spelling & confusion Edited April 16, 2015 by navybrandt 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Szeth committing suicide is not a problem. His prohibition on suicide was because he was Truthless, but he realizes at the end that he's not. He says, "Then I was right all along. I was never Truthless. I could have stopped the murders at any time." That's when Szeth stops fighting and gives up and lets Kaladin kill him (or sever his hand and releases his bond with the sword). Edit: Spelling Cutting the hand does nothing, since the honorblade works fine left handed, so Szeth broke the bond himself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navybrandt Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) I agree, I meant that he let Kaladin sever his hand and also he released the bond. The point was that suicide was no longer an issue since he was never Truthless. Edited April 16, 2015 by navybrandt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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