Calling all Hazekillers!

[Oudeis he/him]

Ranette addresses the idea of aluminum bullets. A Lurcher who sees you fire but doesn't see ironlines will know you're firing aluminum and will find other defenses; he's lurch himself around as you fire making himself a harder target, or something similar. The beauty of the more complicated bullet is that he'll see it's metal, believe his power will work on it, and not try to dodge as the bullet kills him.

 

Sidenote: I wonder how Ranette feels about the idea that her skills are used exclusively to end human life.

 

Seekers, well, if you're a Hazekiller, the idea is that you're not actually using allomancy yourself, so there's no real need to find a way to spoof their power. Also, I don't think metal in the air affects whether or not a Seeker can sense bronzepulses.

[Wrath]

Wait... if you can use Hemalurgy to remove someone's Allomancy, then they can use Feruchemy to repair the spiritual damage, does that mean that you could potentially produce people whose Spiritweb is no longer tainted by Allomancy? Meaning they could then breed full Feruchemists?

[Shaggai]

Wait... if you can use Hemalurgy to remove someone's Allomancy, then they can use Feruchemy to repair the spiritual damage, does that mean that you could potentially produce people whose Spiritweb is no longer tainted by Allomancy? Meaning they could then breed full Feruchemists?

Feruchemy would just restore the Allomancy, according to Brandon. You could try spiking out their Allomancy, then leaving them until they see [not being an Allomancer] as a major part of their identity, I suppose.

[natc]

Feruchemy would just restore the Allomancy, according to Brandon. You could try spiking out their Allomancy, then leaving them until they see [not being an Allomancer] as a major part of their identity, I suppose.

They MUST heal immediately though, the damage is lethal.

[hoidhunter he/him]

One thing I don't think has been discussed is countering Atium

 

Atium basically makes a mistborn invincible, but it is limited in supply. Similar to Fortuity from Steelheart, the best way to defeat someone burning Atium is to checkmate them- or stall long enough for their Atium to run out. Basically, it requires either an all out attack or an all out defense. Trying to parry or feign an attack on a Atiumburner would be useless. The best course of action would be to be unpredictable, so that the Atiumburner can't foresee how to counter your move. Due to its rarity, an Allomancer will only use it in moments in desperation- it also means that mostly mistborn use atium, as Gnats rarely discover their powers- never mind have the resources to fund them- meaning there are other weakness's to exploit. A twinborn using Atium to store age would be essentially immortal (ie: the lord ruler), however- this also puts them at a disadvantage as merely removing the storage would revert the Twinborn back to their original state (I assume), which would leave them vulnerable if you can force them to take their elderly form.

 

In terms of lurchers and coinshots- using Aluminum or its alloys as bullets would negate the need for complicated bullet mechanics- as they cannot be pushed or pulled. Having a Magneto helmet made of Aluminum could also negate the power of Rioting and soothing (I assume). So basically, Aluminum is Hazekiller Gold- as it isn't affected by Allomancy, meaning you can still use all metals assuming you make it an alloy of Aluminum.

 

Tineyes are already vulnerable to bright lights and noises, using a variety of flares could force tineyes to drop their powers.

Seekers can be overwhelmed by large quantities of metal all around, effectively blinding them- a well placed "smoke" grenade that throws up clouds of metal powder instead of smoke would force a seeker to drop its power.

 

The secret for defeating Allomancers, though- I feel, is not through direct combat, but rather through setting a variety of traps. Using snares and mines are the best way to defeat an Allomancer, I feel- as Allomancers rely on mobility to outmaneuver their opponents. 

 

Anyway, those are my ideas :V

upvote...just because...I like how much thought you have put into this...

 

While I'm specifically talking about AoL era Scadrail...not much Atium around...I couldn't hurt to have a few tricks up your sleeve to deal with a seer.  I'm saying that the best way to kill a seer...is to slip them some poison.  It's dirty...but it will do the trick without getting into combat with someone who can see the future.  In terms of how to deal with them in a combat situation...did I read a WoB somewhere that says that aluminum bullets don't make atium shadows?...baring that...dynamite is hard to dodge if the blast is big enough...Vin also uses handfulls of pewter dust in order to make giant obscuring atium shadows...

[Frosted Flakes]

I propose directional explosives.  Are plastic explosives on Scadrial in the Alloy of Law era?  If not, they're imminently close to that technology and, though not nearly as effective, gunpowder may suffice.  Anyway, you pack explosives, such as C-4, into the bottom of a cylindrical tube with a depression in the center of 42^o.  Over the top of the tube, place a thick copper plate.  Prime the device from the bottom, directly center.  Explosions happen extremely fast, but they are NOT instantaneous.  The conical depression in the explosives causes the explosion to become focused directly towards the copper plate, propelling it forward at 24,600 fps, warping it to a semi molten, bullet shape.  It will rip through 22" of rolled homogenous steel like it wasn't even there.  It's moving so fast you can't push or pull it - you may not even be able to dodge it with a time bubble.  You can set them up to rig with pressure plates, a time fuse, or a command line (a string you pull to trigger it.)

 

Claymore mines with aluminum would be simpler and, perhaps, more devastating. 

 

Although, a better alternative may be sexy assassins.  Imagine them, all flirty and sexy...you think it's your lucky day...take one home...bam! aluminum knife in your face. 

[Oudeis he/him]

Vin also uses handfulls of pewter dust in order to make giant obscuring atium shadows...

 

Unless you're talking about a different scene than me, Vin uses the pewter dust on the Inquisitors at the Rashek Shack to obscure ironlines, not atium shadows. If pewter dust could confuse atium shadows, wouldn't she not be concerned about mistborn assassins with atium like she was at the start of Well of Ascension?

[Redbird he/him]

I propose directional explosives.  Are plastic explosives on Scadrial in the Alloy of Law era?  If not, they're imminently close to that technology and, though not nearly as effective, gunpowder may suffice.  Anyway, you pack explosives, such as C-4, into the bottom of a cylindrical tube with a depression in the center of 42^o.  Over the top of the tube, place a thick copper plate.  Prime the device from the bottom, directly center.  Explosions happen extremely fast, but they are NOT instantaneous.  The conical depression in the explosives causes the explosion to become focused directly towards the copper plate, propelling it forward at 24,600 fps, warping it to a semi molten, bullet shape.  It will rip through 22" of rolled homogenous steel like it wasn't even there.  It's moving so fast you can't push or pull it - you may not even be able to dodge it with a time bubble.  You can set them up to rig with pressure plates, a time fuse, or a command line (a string you pull to trigger it.)

 

Claymore mines with aluminum would be simpler and, perhaps, more devastating. 

 

Although, a better alternative may be sexy assassins.  Imagine them, all flirty and sexy...you think it's your lucky day...take one home...bam! aluminum knife in your face. 

The first plastic explosive was invented in 1875 by the same guy who invented dynamite, Alfred Nobel.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

They MUST heal immediately though, the damage is lethal.

 

Only usually, Brandon has said it is possible to survive being spiked, but the donor would be... different afterwards.

[Shaggai]

They MUST heal immediately though, the damage is lethal.

Since Miles apparently has healed from headshots, and carries explosives around just to get out of ropes, I think that the healing isn't the problem.

[hoidhunter he/him]

Unless you're talking about a different scene than me, Vin uses the pewter dust on the Inquisitors at the Rashek Shack to obscure ironlines, not atium shadows. If pewter dust could confuse atium shadows, wouldn't she not be concerned about mistborn assassins with atium like she was at the start of Well of Ascension?

you know...you may be right...I think the event is immediately followed by her thinking something about "I was right about those eyes..."

 

However...couldn't it be possible to do something like this though.  I mean...burning atium comes with an increase in though speed and reflex that allows you to process the information in time to react to it...but would it be possible to overwhelm the atium burner with so much information that they just couldn't make sense of it?  Or at least reacted poorly to it?

 

Also...is the element of surprise a viable strategy for fighting a seer?  I mean...they can see a few seconds into the future...but they can't see behind themselves right?   

[vertigo 1]

I believe that vin has commented at least once that she has dodged blows before sensing them.

[Oudeis he/him]

 I mean...they can see a few seconds into the future...but they can't see behind themselves right?   

 

 

I believe that vin has commented at least once that she has dodged blows before sensing them.

 

It's strongly implied, and suspected by me at least, that atium shadows work the way we know steellines do. Vin closes her eyes at one point and comments how she can still "see" them; it's more like information wired directly into your brain, that your brain then presents to your conscious mind in a way that makes sense to you. When Vin fights Shan, several archers fire a volley of arrows into darkness and mist they cannot see through towards sounds, and Vin dodges them without thinking while focused on Shan. This doesn't rule out the possibility of overwhelming their capacity to process, but I think it makes it pretty clear that you'd have to overwhelm them to a ludicrous degree before it would work.

[natc]

Since Miles apparently has healed from headshots, and carries explosives around just to get out of ropes, I think that the healing isn't the problem.

Dude heals nonstop as if he was breathing. TLR had a continuous tap going too, which is enough to apparently regenerate while being beheaded (I presume as the blade passes through his neck?) and to ignore three spears in his chest.

We're talking about the subject of spiking out allomancy from someone and leaving him that way until he's convinced of not being an allomancer and he can't just heal it back.

Though I guess it might not be lethal when done right. It's gotta hurt though, so here's hoping they don't heal on instinct.

[Shaggai]

Dude heals nonstop as if he was breathing. TLR had a continuous tap going too, which is enough to apparently regenerate while being beheaded (I presume as the blade passes through his neck?) and to ignore three spears in his chest.

We're talking about the subject of spiking out allomancy from someone and leaving him that way until he's convinced of not being an allomancer and he can't just heal it back.

Though I guess it might not be lethal when done right. It's gotta hurt though, so here's hoping they don't heal on instinct.

I misunderstood what you meant originally. Sorry about that.

 

You could remove/drain all of their metalminds. Remove them if possible, of course, but you could probably drain them fairly well through the obvious method. The trick is telling whether you've drained them or they're just pretending. The problem is that the removal of Allomancy would probably not let their kids be full Feruchemists, because Hemalurgic modification is rather unsubtle. It would be more likely to massively mess up their children's sDNA.

[hoidhunter he/him]

It's strongly implied, and suspected by me at least, that atium shadows work the way we know steellines do. Vin closes her eyes at one point and comments how she can still "see" them; it's more like information wired directly into your brain, that your brain then presents to your conscious mind in a way that makes sense to you. When Vin fights Shan, several archers fire a volley of arrows into darkness and mist they cannot see through towards sounds, and Vin dodges them without thinking while focused on Shan. This doesn't rule out the possibility of overwhelming their capacity to process, but I think it makes it pretty clear that you'd have to overwhelm them to a ludicrous degree before it would work.

off the top of my head...I believe what happens is that Vin sees an Atium shadow pass through her head from behind and ducks under the blow that follows...but that doesn't mean that suprising one is impossible.  After all, Vin did kill Zane while he was burning Atium with his eyes wide open facing her...(I know, Vin is an incredible killing machine) but this does prove that this is possible.  You also have to take into consideration that atium burners are not ALWAYS burning Atium...so the element of suprise is probably the best tactic.  That being said...there has to be some way a normal person could beat a seer...aside from just killing them when they are not expecting it.  

[natc]

off the top of my head...I believe what happens is that Vin sees an Atium shadow pass through her head from behind and ducks under the blow that follows...but that doesn't mean that suprising one is impossible. After all, Vin did kill Zane while he was burning Atium with his eyes wide open facing her...(I know, Vin is an incredible killing machine) but this does prove that this is possible. You also have to take into consideration that atium burners are not ALWAYS burning Atium...so the element of suprise is probably the best tactic. That being said...there has to be some way a normal person could beat a seer...aside from just killing them when they are not expecting it.

Hmm.

Force them to jump during a fight then get someone else to fire bullets? Checkmating is the only real non-kamikaze option.

Edited February 25, 2015 by natc

[hoidhunter he/him]

Hmm.

Force them to jump during a fight then get someone else to fire bullets? Checkmating is the only real non-kamikaze option.

Short fuse flash bang...cover your own eyes and ears...they can't dodge sound and light...follow with a gas grenade and bullets. Checkmate.

[natc]

Short fuse flash bang...cover your own eyes and ears...they can't dodge sound and light...follow with a gas grenade and bullets. Checkmate.

We're still not sure if working vision is needed to interpret atium shadows are we?

[hoidhunter he/him]

We're still not sure if working vision is needed to interpret atium shadows are we?

Hmmm...ok...bees...lots of bees...

[Unodus he/him]

To be honest, there aren't a lot of problems that can't be solved with bees.... :3

[Shaggai]

Hmm.

Force them to jump during a fight then get someone else to fire bullets? Checkmating is the only real non-kamikaze option.

There are a few other ways to do it. They all really boil down to "fill the entire area with death." First, get a bunch of friends and have everyone fire at the target at once. Second, get a machine gun or two, and fill their area with bullets. This can be combined with the first for maximum death. Third, use poisonous gas of some sort. Fourth, explosives. Lots of explosives, possibly also loaded with projectiles. Fifth, something else along those lines.

[Frosted Flakes]

To be honest, there aren't a lot of problems that can't be solved with bees.... :3

No joke. I wish I was the Aquaman of bees. I'd go around with a giant "beard" of hundreds of wasps. When someone angered me, I would simply shake my head violently, causing the bees to take flight, then direct them to attack whomever annoyed me.

[Voidus]

 

 

HEROWANNABE ()

I recently picked up the Mistborn Adventure game and am loving it. I made a character who is a blind Mistborn because hey, I thought it would make for some interesting possibilities. As I understand Allomancy, he can hear/sense well enough to get around with Tin, plus even though he's blind he can still "see" Steel lines (like the inquisitors), and I assume Atium would work the same way—that is, he could still "see" Atium shadows. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

BRANDON SANDERSON

No, you're right. That works. He'd have to burn metals a LOT though. It might warp him a little.

HEROWANNABE

The metal that's stumping me is Gold—what happens when a blind person burns Gold—especially if he "sees" a version of himself that isn't blind? Can he see the other version or just hear/feel/sense him? What about the other version, can it see things? Could a blind person use gold in this way to see the world around him?

BRANDON SANDERSON

A blind person would indeed sense these things, but not have the vision with the eyes. In the same way that a blind person still dreams, but doesn't "See" in them. (As I understand it.) I'd suggest talking to someone who is blind and getting their take on how this would work

I thought this WoB might be of interest here.

[hoidhunter he/him]

Totally...that's pretty cool anyway...have an upvote for sharing...