Shallan's Powers

[Lightflame he/him]

What's up with Shallan's "Memory"? She has the magical ability to replicate what she sees on paper, and we even get a capitalized word for it. This ability can detect Truthspren as well, and doesn't seem to have anything to do with the main magic system.

I noticed this line while rereading The Way of Kings. It is part of the description of Shallan's artistic ability. Is it Brandon's foreshadowing, or am I just grasping?

The Way of Kings, Page 118

"When she collected a Memory of a person, she was snipping free a bud of their soul, and she cultivated and grew it on the page." (Emphasis mine.)

Is Shallan connected to Cultivation? Given that we don't know much about her, this could be possible.

[rags]

I think shallans abilities are not related to her soulcasting or any of the other 9 of the radiants' powers.....I say this because the "truth spren" (or whatever spren with the symbol heads) do not seem to recognize what Shallan is doing...You would think theory would know if it were related to what the radiants did...

What are you?

Brandon said there were going to be more than 30 magical systems on roshar....maybe this is one of them. Maybe you are right....it could be of cultivation.

[happyman he/him]

Mmm. This idea has been discussed before. It's possible the Memories are something different from the other magic, but probably not. The connection goes as this:

Shallan uses Memories to see Truthspren -> Truthspren bond with her -> Shallan soulcasts without a Soulcaster

which suggests that the bond between Shallan and Truthspren is what allows her to Soulcast, much like the bond between Kaladin and Syl allows him to Surgebind. Since the Soulcasting is definitely part of the standard magic system, the memories just seem to be an unexplored part.

[Aeshdan he/him]

I'm pretty sure the Memories are an expression of her second Surge. We know she has Transformation and one other surge. Detection, maybe? Awareness?

[Tamzin Ashevai she/her]

Mmm. This idea has been discussed before. It's possible the Memories are something different from the other magic, but probably not. The connection goes as this:

Shallan uses Memories to see Truthspren -> Truthspren bond with her -> Shallan soulcasts without a Soulcaster

which suggests that the bond between Shallan and Truthspren is what allows her to Soulcast, much like the bond between Kaladin and Syl allows him to Surgebind. Since the Soulcasting is definitely part of the standard magic system, the memories just seem to be an unexplored part.

Given all of this, Shallan still doesn't really know what she's doing while she's doing it; to her, it's just happening ... at least, initially. She does harbor a memory that she loathes ... with a sword. Nevertheless,for her recklessness, Jasnah (as her almost-unwilling mentor), is her best bet for a compatriot. Jasnah's ultimate choice is yet another thread that will push this new epic forward.

I'm so looking forward to the next installment!

[happyman he/him]

I'm pretty sure the Memories are an expression of her second Surge. We know she has Transformation and one other surge. Detection, maybe? Awareness?

That it's her second surge seems just about certain, given that the Memories manifest as art, while Jasnah has the artistic inclination of a rock. And that's giving rocks too little credit.

Edit: Given Spren and the cognitive realm, in the Cosmere, it may actually be giving rocks to little credit. Huh.

Edited August 3, 2012 by happyman

[Voidus]

I doubt that Shallans Memories are a Surge primarily because she doesn't need to draw stormlight in order to use it, additionally since Jasnah has studied the KR abilities she would probably recognise it if it were surge-related.

[PeterAhlstrom he/him]

The Way of Kings, Page 118

"When she collected a Memory of a person, she was snipping free a bud of their soul, and she cultivated and grew it on the page." (Emphasis mine.)

Is Shallan connected to Cultivation? Given that we don't know much about her, this could be possible.

Given that quote, very interesting idea.

Edited August 3, 2012 by PeterAhlstrom

[Triasmus]

-snip-

Brandon said there were going to be more than 30 magical systems on roshar....maybe this is one of them. Maybe you are right....it could be of cultivation.

He said that looking at it one way there's 30, looking at it a different way there's 10. Or something really close to that.

My working thoughts on that (until better information comes along) is that each surge counts as 1, then each combination of two surges counts as 1 (so each radiant order), then each way the abilities can be obtained without being on the path of becoming a radiant (what Szeth is doing). That adds up to 30. Then the way to add up to 10 is just thinking of it in power sets. Szeth and Kaladin have the same power set, even though they got it different ways. I don't actually think that what I'm thinking is correct, it's just what I'll think until better info comes (whether by other theorizing or WoB).

Onto the topic, I also believe that the Memories are related to Shallan's second surge.

[prehistoricman]

I doubt that Shallans Memories are a Surge primarily because she doesn't need to draw stormlight in order to use it, additionally since Jasnah has studied the KR abilities she would probably recognise it if it were surge-related.

On the other hand she also happens to carry a relatively large amount of stormlight with her. Kaladin unconsciously used stormlight long before he was aware of it. Without a doubt he was heavily using it combat. Shallan has conscious control over her abilities and a significantly larger pool of stormlight at her disposal. I believe that the frequency that she uses her abilities at and the amount of stormlight she has at her disposal would make the loss in stormlight unnoticeable.

Furthermore when you think of how her ability actually works it seems to be more related to surgebinding. She fixes an image of a place at a specific point in time in her mind which to me seems like a binding.

If Shallan has a connection to Cultivation I don't think that it is through her memories.

[Voidus]

On the other hand she also happens to carry a relatively large amount of stormlight with her. Kaladin unconsciously used stormlight long before he was aware of it. Without a doubt he was heavily using it combat. Shallan has conscious control over her abilities and a significantly larger pool of stormlight at her disposal. I believe that the frequency that she uses her abilities at and the amount of stormlight she has at her disposal would make the loss in stormlight unnoticeable.

With Kaladin it was understandable as he was in a combat situation, he would have shrugged off any sudden surges of energy as adrenaline, Shallan is generally not in any kind of tense situation when she takes memories, I think it would be a bit of an oversight for their to be no mention of a sudden surge of energy like what we see when Stormlight is absorbed.

I think it is more likely that her Meories are just a natural talent or (more likely) akin to Kaladins riding the storm, I'll try and find the quote but I remember Brandon saying each order of the KR shared 2 powers with other orders, but each order also had something of their own, seems likely to me that that is what this is, otherwise this seems like a rather less useful Surge.

[rags]

He said that looking at it one way there's 30, looking at it a different way there's 10. Or something really close to that.

My working thoughts on that (until better information comes along) is that each surge counts as 1, then each combination of two surges counts as 1 (so each radiant order), then each way the abilities can be obtained without being on the path of becoming a radiant (what Szeth is doing). That adds up to 30. Then the way to add up to 10 is just thinking of it in power sets. Szeth and Kaladin have the same power set, even though they got it different ways. I don't actually think that what I'm thinking is correct, it's just what I'll think until better info comes (whether by other theorizing or WoB).

Onto the topic, I also believe that the Memories are related to Shallan's second surge.

He said 10?? There are 10 surges but then don't forget voidbinding....there are supposed to be 10 of those as well.....

[dj26792 he/him]

I think the 10 refers to surges thst seems almost a given the 30 I suspect is Radiant void-binding and whatever Szeth is doing which I suspect is not voidbinding or perhaps fabrials if he is void binding.

[b4dave he/him]

What if she's got the powers of the Knights Radiant, as well as another magic belonging to Cultivation. I noticed that quote as well and drew the same conclusion, so your not completely out there.

[Morsk he/him]

Shallan takes a Memory of Jasnah near the end, holding only a single dim garnet that she took from her hospital room. Shortly after, Jasnah says Shallan was a fool to enter Shadesmar with only a single dim sphere. Neither of them mention the sphere going out.

So I don't think the memories require Stormlight.

I think it is more likely that her Meories are just a natural talent or (more likely) akin to Kaladins riding the storm, I'll try and find the quote but I remember Brandon saying each order of the KR shared 2 powers with other orders, but each order also had something of their own, seems likely to me that that is what this is, otherwise this seems like a rather less useful Surge.

I like the idea that it's her parallel to riding the storm like Kaladin does in his dream. I used to think it might be her parallel to his not needing to breathe, but that requires Stormlight and hers doesn't.

[Tamzin Ashevai she/her]

Shallan, obviously, has no idea that what she's doing when she enters Shadesmar (even though she knows she can do it). Jasnah's reprimand of Shallan's entrance - and rescue of her - eventually encourages her to finally accept Shallan as her apprentice.

Given what we know of Shallan's history, according to The Way of Kings, it would seem that Shallan wields a Shardblade. So, just what is her status within The Stormlight Archive?

[CrazyRioter she/her]

I'm not sure what you mean by "status", she's potentially a very dangerous person, but she doesn't know how to use a sword either, so it's still only potential.

[rags]

Given what we know of Shallan's history, according to The Way of Kings, it would seem that Shallan wields a Shardblade. So, just what is her status within The Stormlight Archive?

Do we know that Shallan wields a Shardblade? Do we have evidence for this? I mean its possible she killed her dad and took his blade (provided he had a blade in the first place)....but do we have any backing for this theory?

[JamesW he/him]

Do we know that Shallan wields a Shardblade? Do we have evidence for this? I mean its possible she killed her dad and took his blade (provided he had a blade in the first place)....but do we have any backing for this theory?

There is a very obvious quote from somewhere in the book, it mentions her waiting ten heartbeats. I do believe it was when she went with Jasnah and she soulcast the three people who tried to rob her.

There was another mention of "Evidence of her sin" about her father, and I believe the implication was that she had taken it from (or used it to kill) her father.

[Voidus]

She was helpless.

Except…

Storms! she thought, frantic. I can’t use that. I promised myself.

She began the process anyway. Ten heartbeats, to bring forth the fruit of her sin, the proceeds of

her most horrific act.

I think Brandon may have confirmed this too but I'm not entirely sure.

[Zas678 he/him]

Shallan, obviously, has no idea that what she's doing when she enters Shadesmar (even though she knows she can do it). Jasnah's reprimand of Shallan's entrance - and rescue of her - eventually encourages her to finally accept Shallan as her apprentice.

Given what we know of Shallan's history, according to The Way of Kings, it would seem that Shallan wields a Shardblade. So, just what is her status within The Stormlight Archive?

My guess would be as a main character. She's an amazing artist, an interesting backstory, and she has a secret Shardblade. All recipes for importance. Plus, Brandon has said that this is "the first" of Shallan's apprenticeships. What other ones will we see? Navani? Taln? Hoid? Who knows? Anyways, I'm excited for the next book, which should focus on her.

As for what she'll end up doing? Probably infuriating at least one of Dalinar's/Kaladin's crew, learning to use her powers in battle (or negotiation), and doing lots and lots of drawing.

[rags]

Thank you Voidus and JamesW. I have read the book twice and I can't believe I missed the shardblade reference both times! And it was so obvious.

Edited August 13, 2012 by rags

[CrazyRioter she/her]

I think Brandon may have confirmed this too but I'm not entirely sure.

he didn't outright confirm it in so many words, but somebody asked him "does that scene mean what I think it means", and he said "it means what you think it means."

[Teegs]

Didn't she say that she killed him, to the truth spren, the second time she went to Shadesmar? Wasn't that the truth she provided?

Or is the question whether she took his sword or not?

[happyman he/him]

Didn't she say that she killed him, to the truth spren, the second time she went to Shadesmar? Wasn't that the truth she provided?

Or is the question whether she took his sword or not?

Here's the quote, with important context:

Creatures, she said in her head. Can you hear me?

Yes, always, a whisper came in response. Though she hoped to hear it, she still jumped.

Can you return me to that place? she asked/

You need to tell me something true, it replied. The more true, the stronger our bond.

Jasnah is using a fake Soulcaster, Shallan thought. I'm sure that's a truth.

That's not enough, the voice whispered. I must know something true about you. Tell me. The stronger the truth, the more hidden it is, the more powerful the bond. Tell me. Tell me. What are you?

"What am I?" Shallan whispered. "Truthfully?" It was a day for confrontation. She felt strangely strong, steady. Time to speak it. "I'm a murderer. I killed my father."

Ah, the voice whispered. A powerful truth indeed...

And beyond a few indirect references, that's about all we know about what happened that fateful night her father died. The text suggests, but doesn't state, that she got the sword from her father. It's implied (it is the fruit of her greatest sin) but it is not outright stated.