Anniversary Game: In the Re-Wake of the Koloss

[Mckeedee123 he/him]

 

My gut says that Eolhondras isn't spiked. The chance of a set of messages like this actually bearing fruit seems fairly low and painting a target on yourself for a low chance of finding a tineye seems a bad plan. True it seems a bad plan whether he is a villager or a spiked, but if he was spiked I think some of the other spiked would have pointed out the flaws in his plan. Unless they're trying to wipe out the tineyes altogether to prevent PMs, which is a difficult plan to pull off given that there are probably 2-3 tineyes and even then the odds that he would get all of them are terrible. I just don't see the tradeoff of a spiked being worthwhile to them this early in the game. I think it is more likely that he is a villager and this was a poorly thought-through plan. I dunno, I'm not convinced. I think the best case for the spiked with this plan would be that they discovered the identity of a single tineye in exchange for losing one of their members. If Eolhondras is a spiked tineye that would change the equation somewhat. Even then it seems like a rather brash and risky action. My feeling at the moment is that he isn't, but I'm less than certain.

 

True. If Eoldren is an eliminator, then it seems like a pretty dumb strategy to be sticking his neck out by sending out a bunch of scary-looking PMs.

 

At the same time, the nature of his inquiry is suspicious. As far as I can tell (and admittedly, I haven't finished reading through LG1 yet), it's better for the tineyes to remain anonymous. The only people who would even benefit from knowing their identities are the eliminators. It's nothing concrete, and I''m sorry, but I'm putting a vote on Eolhondras for now.

Edited January 4, 2015 by mckeedee123

[Araris Valerian he/him]

As best as I can tell, the current vote count is as follows:

Herowannabe (3): Renegade, Kasimir, Araris Valerian

Jain (1): Wyrmhero

Eolhandras (3): Mailliw73, ostrichofevil, mckeedee123

Dom (1): lord Claincy Ffnord

 

I don't think that killing Eol at this point is an imperative, mostly we have a decent reason to think he is spiked but since he doesn't have a dangerous role (if we are right) then killing him will waste our lynch for one day. I think that it is probable that the spiked have at least one emotional allomancy role, so if they want Eol to die then we would have to go out of our way to save him. We still have around 24 hours to discuss (right?), so for now I will put a vote on Herowannabe for the following reasons:

1: Not voting is close to as unhelpful as not talking at all. You could at least have said that you would wait and see before you placed your vote.

2: Eol, if we are correct about him, is probably going to die if there is a tie vote involving him. I think that we can spend our lynch in better places.

3: Eol has said that he can give us some info on why he did what he did

I still think that Eol is a perfectly viable lynch target. When his vote is close to one of an innocent, the spiked could (again, under the assumption they have a soother/rioter) just force the vote onto the villager and we would learn nothing. I guess what I'm trying to say is that by then end of the cycle we need to have a clear idea of who we are going to lynch so that nobody plays tricks with us.

[Seonid he/him]

I'd like to apologise for my tardiness in terms of replying to the ongoing events here. While this has all unfolded I have either been asleep or at work. As has been noted, I have been online for brief periods though out the day, and I have been a pretty terrible employee as a result. Every time I had a spare second, I would take a look at the forum, just enough to keep up with what's happening, but not enough time to respond. (Please before you question my IRL commitments, I believe lying about them would be against the etiquette policy running on the site.) So again, apologies, and I will post my actual response soon.

 

I actually believe that. About the IRL commitments, that is. It would be completely unsporting to lie about them to gain sympathy in thread (or in a PM, or whatever). But while that might justify your lack of defense, I'll wait until I actually hear your defense to make a decision on your innocence.

[Eolhondras he/him]

First, the facts.

 

Players contacted:

 

-          Lord Pifferdoo

-          Joe

-          Mailli

-          mckeedee123

-          Winter Cloud

-          Peng

-          Seonid

-          dominic1994

-          Jain

-          Ash

-          Newan

-          Jasnah

-          ostrichofevil

-          Sart

-          Unodus

-          Weiry

-          Macen

 

All messages were sent between 9:11 pm and 9:22 pm AEST. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.

 

Players not contacted:

 

-          Kas, Wilson, Ren, Hero, Claincey, Wyrm

I find you all incredibly intimidating and did not want to butt heads one on one.

-          Arais, dowanx and sarcomere I think may all be spelt incorrectly on my list, and I couldn’t find them in messenger.

 

As to why I did what I did.

It’s no secret that a lot of value is placed on peoples past behaviours, habits and their general game styles, and this becomes a big advantage to the more experienced players who have been playing with each other for some time. What I did, and I loath to call it trolling or phishing, was more an experiment. I wanted to see how people would react to edgy or sensitive stimulus, and what would be more sensitive than an accusation about roles. In doing so I could gauge them as a player, and continue profiling people and lessen the gap between more experienced players and myself, as a newer member.

 

It has already been pointed out that expecting to ferret out a tineye or any other pertinent information would be foolhardy, and I completely agree. I no way do I trust or plan to act on acting upon any information in the replies to my experiment, as I respect anyone who plays this game far too much to believe that they would give me anything usable. However the tone and the wording or any other indications I can find about someone’s personality will go down in my notes and I hope, help me later on.

 

Perhaps some may see my actions as foolish, suspicious or erratic, and if I die for doing something outside the expected, then so be it.

 

Any questions please ask away.

 

 

 

 

On a side note, Assuming 3 tineyes is a large amount, and that one may be a mistborn, I think it would be pertinent to try and track the mistborn use of abilities, given Meta's method for determining which power they get, and how that makes it slightly more unlikely that they will have the same one twice in at least a few cycles.

[Mckeedee123 he/him]

Couldn't you have used a role that the eliminators wouldn't have been as interested in targeting? Like thug?

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Well, my username is Araris Valerian, and I'm actually a little disappointing that I didn't get a message from you. I applaud your bravery to attempt something like this; its a really creative way to go about doing things, if you are doing what you say you are. My personal opinion is that it makes no sense for the spiked to suicide someone unless they are a tineye that they want to get rid of, which can wait until the other tineyes are dead and also would probably involve the suicidee going along somewhat with the plot. I would also like to point out that gauging the reactions of players would be as much or more helpful to the eliminators than to a villager. I do think that asking after a role that is important does more to figure out things than asking after a role such as being a thug. Unfortunately, the eliminators have probably been able to figure out a bit more about what roles people have now as a result of this.

[Eolhondras he/him]

Couldn't you have used a role that the eliminators wouldn't have been as interested in targeting? Like thug?

Wouldn't have worked as well, as its not as important. 

Also the messages after the night cycle gave me plausibility to have connected message to player and hence player to role. This takes away part of the 'trolling' aspect, and so I am more likely to receive a serious answer.

 

Edit, Internet seems to be playing up. I'm sure a Mod would be kind enough to remove the double post?

Edited January 4, 2015 by Eolhondras

[Ashiok]

Well, this would be a logical scheme to pull if you were a sTineye. The Spiked don't want any tineyes to survive, so in the beginning they may have told you to suicide, getting info in the process. Later, they might have realized that a tineye would be good to hold onto as a role villagers wouldn't to kill, so they told you to clarify.

 

This makes more sense to me than you being innocent and profiling us all through these minuscule exchanges. I responded in what, two sentences? You didn't continue the farce after that, explain your (imaginary) logic, and actually accumulate an idea of how I behaved. You didn't even respond. And that, Eolhondras, is why I'm debating voting for you to die. While your little trick was creative, the inept execution leads me to wonder. However, this is a strange thing to pull, especially Day one. After night two, actual conversations could be held over role accusations, and you could've gotten strong profiles.

 

Here's how I would've done it. I believe you would amass better reactions this way. Tell Wilson/Claincy that you're going to do it. Do the thingy on night two, when there's more info, except only contact one person at a time. A while in, tell them that it was just a test, to profile them, and that they shouldn't tell anybody about it. Rinse and repeat. As I was saying, creative idea, but the execution fell short. Innocent or not, it is pretty suspicious.

[Newan he/him]

I think that what Eolhondras did was gutsy.  I'm in favor of players trying out new strategies.  Also the spiked probably wouldn't want to suicide their tineye until the good tineye is dead.

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

I actually applaud What Eolhondras has done. He made a clever new Strategy to figure people, and it worked. I believe he's innocent. ​Yup. I'm ignoring the Homework I'm supposed to be doing.

I still don't have any suspicions, so I'll withhold my Vote. We still have another 24 hours or so.

 

EDIT: Bloody White Text showed up Black.

Edited January 4, 2015 by The Only Joe

[Unodus he/him]

Sorry about missing yesterday's window, I was on a flight (going back home after Christmas holiday x.x)
Back now, though- just finished reading everything. 

 

 

So, can someone explain to me the context of lynching? This is my first game, so I don't know all the terms... (I don't think it was mentioned in the rules or ettiquette :V )

 

Odustren lounged at the back of the town hall, out of sight- and trying his best not to be noticed. Yesterday had been a blur- not only had the thief gotten away, but an ominous fire had struck the barracks. He had spent the rest of that day in the bar, trying to get to know the locals- and then helped the villagers with the wells upon their request.

His situation already seemed grave- when put in a dangerous scenario, people would side with people they trusted. Being a newcomer, especially without any obvious possessions or profession, would make it difficult for Odustren to defend himself if suspicion against him built momentum.
"Guess I'll just have to solve this murder before the real saboteurs get away..." 

And so, Odustren announced his questions to the hall

• "Why would the 'saboteurs' target Vron?" (We know now that he was a soother- could this be further evidence that one of the saboteurs is a Tineye?)
• "Where did the killers get the Axe and the poison?" (The poison could have been bought from Vron himself (as he is an alchimest), and the axe could have been from the weaponsmith. Are there records of people buying such items...?)
• Why did Vron have a spike, and why was he sending it to Luthadel? (or are we not supposed to know that...? .3.;)
• How could the killer set such an elaborate trap within Vrons home? (The killer must have had unadulterated access to the house, and had knowledge of Vrons secret cache)
• Clearly, the fire was partially a distraction so that the killer could get away- who doesn't have an alibi for helping put out the fire? (The trap must have taken some time to set up. Who wasn't helping at that time?)

Perhaps trying to solve the mystery using the RP won't work, thinking about it... x.x 
Thats all I got, though- I'm not really sure what to look for... .3.;

Well, I guess I'll just jump on the bandwagon and vote for Hero (sorry hero .~.)- but that may be subject to change over the next 24 hours if new evidence comes to light...

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

So, can someone explain to me the context of lynching? This is my first game, so I don't know all the terms... (I don't think it was mentioned in the rules or ettiquette :V )

• "Why would the 'saboteurs' target Vron?" (We know now that he was a soother- could this be further evidence that one of the saboteurs is a Tineye?)
• "Where did the killers get the Axe and the poison?" (The poison could have been bought from Vron himself (as he is an alchimest), and the axe could have been from the weaponsmith. Are there records of people buying such items...?)
• Why did Vron have a spike, and why was he sending it to Luthadel? (or are we not supposed to know that...? .3.;)
• How could the killer set such an elaborate trap within Vrons home? (The killer must have had unadulterated access to the house, and had knowledge of Vrons secret cache)
• Clearly, the fire was partially a distraction so that the killer could get away- who doesn't have an alibi for helping put out the fire? (The trap must have taken some time to set up. Who wasn't helping at that time?)

 

Lynching: Every Day Cycle, we all get one vote. We vote for who we think is evil. Whoever has the most votes atthe end of the cycle is Killed, and their role and alignment is revealed. Currently Hero is being Lynched.

 

The Spiked target Vron because he was an Experienced player. He's none to make long term plans, and he can piece together what the eliminators will do. It might also be an attempt to frame me.

 

Metacognition has stated that there won't be clues hidden in the write-up. That answers your last 4 questions, or at least negates them.

[Eolhondras he/him]

Well, this would be a logical scheme to pull if you were a sTineye. The Spiked don't want any tineyes to survive, so in the beginning they may have told you to suicide, getting info in the process. Later, they might have realized that a tineye would be good to hold onto as a role villagers wouldn't to kill, so they told you to clarify.

Paranoia defined as: An unfounded or distrust of others.

 

I don't begrudge your suspicion, but I would simply highlight that anything can be seen Spiked plotting if looked at in the right light.

 

 

 I responded in what, two sentences? You didn't continue the farce after that, explain your (imaginary) logic, and actually accumulate an idea of how I behaved. You didn't even respond. And that, Eolhondras, is why I'm debating voting for you to die. While your little trick was creative, the inept execution leads me to wonder. However, this is a strange thing to pull, especially Day one. After night two, actual conversations could be held over role accusations, and you could've gotten strong profiles.

I had not counted on so much thread attention being brought to this so soon and so I would have a bit more time before the magnitude of my actions was well known. Obviously that was not a good assumption, but then hindsight is a killer.

 

That said, anything anyone says is an indication of their character. Short replies may not give me a wealth of knowledge about someone but they might provide a starting point. And how do you know if some of the others weren't more forthcoming? Understanding people is a never ending pursuit with no definite answers, but anything and everything helps so I will continue to pursue it.

 

Here's how I would've done it. I believe you would amass better reactions this way. Tell Wilson/Claincy that you're going to do it. Do the thingy on night two, when there's more info, except only contact one person at a time. A while in, tell them that it was just a test, to profile them, and that they shouldn't tell anybody about it. Rinse and repeat. As I was saying, creative idea, but the execution fell short. Innocent or not, it is pretty suspicious.

This is a learning experience, so thankyou for the advice. Again, in hindsight perhaps a bit more thought was warranted.

[Seonid he/him]

After some reflection, I've become rather interested in this:

 

All messages were sent between 9:11 pm and 9:22 pm AEST. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.

 

 

I got one at Noon, New York time. 

 

Just in case anyone was wondering, 9:00 P.M AEST should be 5:00 AM EST (New York time).

 

Now, Eolhondras did say that Ash was one of the ones he sent the message to, so we know he's not lying about receiving the message. But, according to Eol, nobody received a message past 9:22 (which is 5:22 AM EST). So either Eol is lying about the times he sent to cast suspicion on Ash, or Ash is lying about the time he received the message.

 

Given that Wilson was using those times to see if Eol had sent messages before a certain interaction in a PM thread (a thread which I am not privy to), and that Ashiok was claiming a message sent after the real time (according to Eol), this could mean that Ash could have been potentially lying to further cement suspicions on Eol.

 

With this tangled web, I'm rather confused. I have no firm suspicions or accusations to make, just questions that I'd like answered.

 

At this point, I'm going to tentatively vote Ash to see if he has anything to say to defend himself. I'll be back on in the next few hours to see if he does, but I don't expect to be online after that until after the rollover to night, so we'll see if I'm able to retract this or not. If he does mount a reasonable defense, I may well switch my vote to Eolhondren. Depends on Eolhondren's reaction to this post, too.

[Kasimir he/him]

Claincy, thank you for the response. I appreciate it.

I would add a note of caution to your alternative depicting "what Eoldren should've done", Ash. At this point, I have no particular reason to trust Wilson or Claincy, and I find it interesting that you're so willing to immediately trust them with information on what you'd do. (Note: I said that I have no particular reason to trust Wilson or Claincy--it does not entail that I necessarily also distrust them. Rather, I find myself in the position where I have neither reason to trust nor distrust them.) I merely note that I'm a little surprised to find you with such (seemingly) strong reason to trust another player, so early in the game.

(In particular, Wilson has often accused me of overcompensating in my paranoia towards her. This may be true; at the same time, I find early expressions of trust somewhat puzzling.)

The points of the weaknesses of Eoldren's approach, such as the questions of how he actually profiled them, or if it was useful, if it fit his professed plans, and that it might be a useful strategy for a Spiked!Tineye, are, I believe, well-taken. Those, I will acknowledge, are well-raised.

Myself, I admit I'm at a loss as to what to think. 'Phishing', as it were, isn't exactly a new strategy in this game--as Joe might very well know. (Those of you who are curious, see LG3--Gamma pulled the exact same trick, though a bit more fleshed out, on Joe in order to elicit a Spiked confession and to end the game.) I feel that it seems a bit risky as a strategy for the Spiked to do, even a Spiked Tineye. The plan could easily backfire: it's more risk than reward. At the same time, I've long learned that it's a dangerous thing to superimpose my preconceptions of 'sensible Spiked play' onto how Team Evil actually plays--these assumptions aren't always warranted.

To be very frank, I do not know what to think. Eoldren's plan is bold, and actually, a rather interesting move for a newer player, and on those grounds, if it is the case that he isn't Spiked, then I must applaud it. (It certainly beats hiding in the shadows and waiting for someone to contact you...) On the other hand, the qualms raised are genuine, and it seems somewhat ill-considered. And I still find myself with some reason to distrust Hreo, so I'm not keen to move my vote.

If possible, I'd like a response from Ash, as well.

[Eolhondras he/him]

Just in case anyone was wondering, 9:00 P.M AEST should be 5:00 AM EST (New York time).

 

I just a look, I got a reply from Ash at roughly 4am this morning, which is 12 noon EST so I'm guessing that's just when he looked at it. Not completely sure, but I think that's just miscommunication. 

[Seonid he/him]

Thanks, Eol, for that information. Unfortunately, legitimate miscommunications are always less interesting than deliberate lies. And give much less information.

 

That's a totally reasonable scenario, actually. Since I'm probably not going to be on again this cycle before Ash responds, and that was, I'll retract the vote. (I'll probably check one more time before I go home, though.)

 

[EDIT]: Color! Again!!

Edited January 4, 2015 by Seonid

[Lord Pifferdoo he/him]

Baron Von Piffertiff sighed, rubbing his temples. Lord Senn Conrad, a minor nobleman from some Dominance that looked important on paper, was stirring up trouble again. 

 

"Please, Lord Conrad, my official title is 'Council-member' or Baron. And as for the question asking rules, they were established a couple months ago, in response to the sheer number of questions regarding the recent coup in Luthadel." The coup hadn't caused too many dramatic affects here in Tyrian Falls. Sure, skaa were made full citizens and the Baron had to worry about things like 'Worker's Rights" and "Fair Wages", but other than the occasional visit from a Luthadelian official, things were normal.

 

"The question asker must raise his or her hand. They will receive a number, and that number will be dropped into a hat. This hat will then be jumbled around by the official, council-appointed hat-jumbler (currently that is Wilson, after a remarkable campaign) who will then hand that hat to the Captain of the Guard. The Captain will then inspect the hat for tampering, and then, once the hat is approved, give the hat to the official number-chooser, Herwynbe. The number chooser will be observed by at least three council-members, one from each major faction (skaa, merchant, noble), then will choose a single number from the hat. The person corresponding to that number will then have their question answered to the best of the council's ability."

 

As Baron Von Piffertiff was explaining this, Danrak the Generic Courier ran up to his side and placed a small memo in his hands. The Baron glanced at it while the hat-jumbler and number-chooser were being escorted to the front of the room and the official hat-to-be-used-while-jumbling-numbers was being retrieved from it's guardian, Arment.

 

"As for your other comment, Lord Conrad, I have just received a memo from Eoladdin stating that his ravings were in fact an experiment, a test of sorts, to find out the true intentions of the townspeople. He mentions 'ferrets' and 'learning experiences'. I have no idea what that really means, but since Eoladdin has not actually caused physical harm, we cannot detain him." 

 

 

Edit: Sorry Kasimir, didn't know, won't happen again

Edited January 4, 2015 by Lord Pifferdoo

[Kasimir he/him]

...I've never had to do this before, and I'm not sure if this is the right place for it, but might I politely request to not be further conscripted into RP? I've spent this time establishing Karnad as a stranger to the town and someone working for a nobleman not part of Tyrian Falls. There's really no reason for him to be serving the town baron as a courier.

 

I apologise if this is getting on everyone's nerves, but I get a bit twitchy when the character I'm playing gets pulled into RP--especially RP reasonably contrary to what I've already set up.

 

Thank you!

 

Edit: Again, the colour editor eats my code. I think it's an Awakened Editor...

Edit 2: I'm still the most recent post. Here's an updated vote tally, also tracking vote shifts:

Hreo (4): Kas, Ren, Araris, Unodus

Nobody (1): Hreo

Jain (1): Wyrm

Dom (1): Maili<1>, Claincy<2>

Eoldren (2): Maili<2>, Tekiel, Mek

Joe (1): Claincy<1>

Ash (1): Seonid, Maili<3>

At this point, the only one I'd flag is Wyrm. Anything in particular you're looking to get out of Jain, King?

I must stress that despite the Eoldren incident, we shouldn't fixate on Eoldren alone. Pertinent questions have been raised, and we'd possibly like to open up discussion a little more than turn Eoldren into our discussion-bottleneck.

tldr; talk more people! We're not dead yet!

Edited January 4, 2015 by Kasimir

[Mailliw73 he/him]

I'm curious about this pretty big bandwagon on Hero. Eol's bandwagon had at least some good reason. I'm not exactly sure why you guys are all piling on Hero like that, aside from the one reason of not wanting to vote. Ash, something about your post makes me suspect you. It feels like you have experience with what these Spiked would or wouldn't do.

[Newan he/him]

I am confused as to why there are so many votes on Hero.  Could somebody sum it up for me?

[Kasimir he/him]

I'm not sure if you're asking me specifically, Maili, or just everyone who voted for Hreo, in general. I'm going to briefly summarise my reasoning as follows:

1. Hreo's been sashaying up to Ren's reasoning, nice and smooth-like, and pretty much what he does as an Eliminator.
-He's made a good response to that, and I accept he would probably do the same as a Villager. Still, it's something I took note of, and it's mostly gut on that point, so I shan't give that much credence at all. It's neither a reason for distrusting him nor a reason for trusting him.

2. I find the comment he made on not having enough information for a lynch so he'd vote for no-one:
A. Disingenuous. As Claincy said previously in the game you ran, Maili, we've fought about this in almost every single game. I find it strange that Hreo's trying to pass that off as some sort of consensus good move. (Again, Hreo's words can be read two ways. My reasoning for choosing the stronger reading is supported in my earlier post, but generally, the point is that Hreo isn't making a descriptive claim. He's also endorsing a normative one.)

B. Second point of why it's disingenuous: Hreo's an experienced player. So I find it slightly strange that he'd immediately suggest shutting down on the lynch discussion but put a band-aid on that by saying "Well, y'know, we should discuss, anyway."

3. As I see it, usually, we'd say, 'well, we don't need to lynch today as this is a LG. So we can wait one night for more information and then proceed.' Unfortunately, such a strategy is predicated on the game beginning with a day cycle. i.e. We start with no one down at all. But as this game started with a night cycle, it seems to me that we do need the information that both lynch discussion and a lynch will give us.

A. Extension of point 3: at this point, it looks to me as though leaving pressure on Hreo is more fruitful than leaving pressure on Eoldren. Eoldren seems to have been fairly forthcoming, by this point, about his motives. Hreo has not. We should be at about half-time by now, if I'm not mistaken. We still have plenty of time to change our votes, Maili. I'm slightly surprised that you want us to seal off things so quickly. You yourself have acknowledged this tacitly by swapping your vote to Ash.

B. Extension of points 3 and A: if forced to choose, at this current point in time: I'm more inclined to go with lynching Hreo than Eoldren. Perhaps my gut is a Darkfriend, but it reads to me as though Eoldren is a player who made a gutsy but ill-considered move and is not Spiked. If there is additional convincing argument or reason to choose Eoldren over Hreo, then my vote is naturally going to be flexible.

 

Edit: Redid the numbering scheme because I made a mistake with the alphabets.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Kasimir

[Herowannabe he/him]

First off, My apologies for not posting more- I was at work all day and then had a guest over and haven't had a chance to (and now I just lost 15 minutes of typing this response thanks to a computer glitch.  ). And unfortunately it will probably be like that for me this whole game. I've been working 60+ hour weeks lately and don't have a ton of free time, but wanted to play in the Anniversary Game anyway.

 

Anyway, let me respond to a few things while I can. Thanks Kasimir for summing them up.

 

 

1. Hreo's been sashaying up to Ren's reasoning, nice and smooth-like, and pretty much what he does as an Eliminator.
-He's made a good response to that, and I accept he would probably do the same as a Villager. Still, it's something I took note of, and it's mostly gut on that point, so I shan't give that much credence at all. It's neither a reason for distrusting him nor a reason for trusting him.



 

 

 

Probably doesn’t need repeating, but yes, that is how I play every game. Part of the reason I did so well as an Eliminator during the last game I played is that I played it just like I would if I was a regular villager. (Also, as a side note, Renegade was also one of my fellow Eliminators that game, and he played it the same way. Not trying to cast suspicion on him- just the opposite- but I’m just saying you can’t read too much into what people say in this game, especially in just a few posts).

 

2. I find the comment he made on not having enough information for a lynch so he'd vote for no-one:


A. Disingenuous. As Claincy said previously in the game you ran, Maili, we've fought about this in almost every single game. I find it strange that Hreo's trying to pass that off as some sort of consensus good move. (Again, Hreo's words can be read two ways. My reasoning for choosing the stronger reading is supported in my earlier post, but generally, the point is that Hreo isn't making a descriptive claim. He's also endorsing a normative one.)



 

 

 

 

Looking back, you are right, I misspoke. I have not played in most of the games- recent or otherwise- but in the few I have played there was usually a push by a few people at the beginning of the game to not lynch anyone by not voting or going for a tie vote. During the first such game I played (LG2), I was very vocal against that idea. I wanted to lynch people. And when the vote started looking like a tie vote, I rounded up a few others and we pulled some last minute shenanigans and got the village coinshot lynched. I learned a lesson from that, and I have become far less lynch-happy since then.

 

And since nobody else seems to be on board with it, here are my (darn good, if I do say so myself) reasons why I think we should abstain from lynching anybody:

 

The Spiked players want to kill people. They win when everyone else is dead. As best as we know, they are able to kill 1 person per cycle on their own. Added to that, we as a village can lynch 1 person per cycle, and we probably have 1-3 coinshots (yes, I would not put it past Meta to have 3 of each role, and/or to make it so that EVERYBODY has a special role). For now, lets ignore the coinshot(s), as they don’t seem to be trigger-happy yet, and the occasional lurcher or thug or tie-vote is going to cancel out a killing here and there. So for simplicity’s sake, let’s assume 2 kills per cycle- one Spiked kill and one lynching. At that rate the game will be over in roughly 12 cycles, give or take. However, if we as a village abstain from lynching, we can extend the game to up to 20 cycles. Why is that a good thing you ask?

 

Lots of kills in a shorter time favors the Eliminators. Less kills over a longer period of time favors the village. Not only are we much more likely to accidentally kill someone valuable to our team than one of the Spiked (as was the case when I got the coinshot lynched in LG2), but the longer we stall the more time it gives the seeker(s) and Mistborn who draw bronze to gather up a team of trusted people, as well as time to seek out and target Spiked players- guaranteeing us successful lynchings/coinshots.

 

Also, the Traitors have more power in lynching than we do as villagers because they know who is on their team and who isn’t. They don’t have to guess when they cast their votes. We do. And as a former Eliminator, let me attest: It’s not that hard to encourage the crowd to go the wrong way and still retain an appearance of innocence. Take a good look at the people who have cast votes so far. I’m willing to bet that half of team Spiked is on that list somewhere. Here it is again for easy reference:

Hreo (4): Kas, Ren, Araris, Unodus

Nobody (1): Hreo

Jain (1): Wyrm

Dom (1): Maili<1>, Claincy<2>

Eoldren (2): Maili<2>, Tekiel, Mek

Joe (1): Claincy<1>

Ash (1): Seonid, Maili<3>

 

 

 

 

B. Second point of why it's disingenuous: Hreo's an experienced player. So I find it slightly strange that he'd immediately suggest shutting down on the lynch discussion but put a band-aid on that by saying "Well, y'know, we should discuss, anyway."



 

 

 

I admit that I find it odd that I am grouped with the “experienced, dangerous players.” I have only played in 3 games before this one (and in one of those games I earned the title of honorary Spiked because I helped the bad guys way more than I helped the village  ). Some of you people have 2 or 3 times as many games under your belt!

 

As for the “Well, discuss anyway comment,” honestly that was me posting late at night and trying to hurry and finish so I could go to bed. But seriously, yes, I agree, we need accusations and discussions and debates and all of that for all of the reasons that others have stated.

 

However, by going for no-votes or tie-votes there is still a lot of information to be gained. If we all agree to try to avoid a lynching, then look at who resists that. The Eliminators want people lynched, and will probably be the ones pushing for lynchings (probably not the most vocal ones, mind you, but they will be there). These debates about lynching vs no lynching can be every bit as informative as debates about who to lynch.

 

3. As I see it, usually, we'd say, 'well, we don't need to lynch today as this is a LG. So we can wait one night for more information and then proceed.' Unfortunately, such a strategy is predicated on the game beginning with a day cycle. i.e. We start with no one down at all. But as this game started with a night cycle, it seems to me that we do need the information that both lynch discussion and a lynch will give us.



 

 

 

Honestly, I don’t see how a day vs night cycle changes much of anything. We have no idea why they killed Vron, other than that he was skilled and experienced. That doesn’t give us any info on who the Eliminators are- or at least, not enough to reliably lynch anyone based off of that.

 

A. Extension of point 3: at this point, it looks to me as though leaving pressure on Hreo is more fruitful than leaving pressure on Eoldren. Eoldren seems to have been fairly forthcoming, by this point, about his motives. Hreo has not. We should be at about half-time by now, if I'm not mistaken. We still have plenty of time to change our votes, Maili. I'm slightly surprised that you want us to seal off things so quickly. You yourself have acknowledged this tacitly by swapping your vote to Ash.

B. Extension of points 3 and A: if forced to choose, at this current point in time: I'm more inclined to go with lynching Hreo than Eoldren. Perhaps my gut is a Darkfriend, but it reads to me as though Eoldren is a player who made a gutsy but ill-considered move and is not Spiked. If there is additional convincing argument or reason to choose Eoldren over Hreo, then my vote is naturally going to be flexible.

 

 

 

Reading through the thread, I agree that I’m not convinced that Elodren is Spiked. His behavior is mighty suspicious, to be sure, but I still am in favor of not lynching anyone. If anything, Elodren (and myself) ought to be seeked tonight. Really, I don't have any strong suspicions about anyone, not even you, Kasimir, despite being so adamant about coming after me- the only person I KNOW is innocent- based off of one or two posts.

 

Lastly, for what it’s worth, let me say it outright. I am not a Spiked. I am a villager, and have been, and will be doing, everything in my power to bring the Spikies down. Edit: So much for a quick, short post. *sigh*

Edited January 4, 2015 by Herowannabe

[Claincy he/him]

Eolhondras's explanation does make sense as a ploy, though it could have been executed better and as I said before I don't *think* it would have been a great strategy for the spiked to try. So I don't think he is spiked, but I will maintain a very healthy amount of suspicion until a seeker can vet him.

 

I'm not sure about Hero to be honest. I think that he hasn't been particularly helpful, but I could say the same of other people and from memory his current stance is pretty well in line with his normal one. I don't know how things have changed recently but back when I was last playing his stance was a reasonably popular opinion and frankly I don't think it's an unreasonable opinion. But I personally do not like waiting on seekers to build networks, if they get killed or make a mistake we can be back to square one far too easily and even if they don't, having the information to help them pick their targets can make them much more effective. I'm not keen on lynching him based largely on him advocating a strategy that I disagree with and stating his case somewhat poorly in his first post. From memory the spiked haven't advocated the stance Hero is any more than the villages in the past so I'd like a little more evidence before condemning him.

 

As I don't have much in the way of other solid suspicions at the moment I will leave my vote on Dom for the time being in the hopes that it encourages him to post. All the same, at the moment I think we should be keeping a close eye on Elohondras, Hero, perhaps Ashiok, Wilson and Myself and everyone who has been fairly silent up to this point.

 

I need to go sleep now, I'll be working tomorrow and the day finishes at 5pm here so I don't know for certain if I'll be able to post again till after then, but I'll try to keep up with the thread and do more if I can.

[Wyrmhero he/him]

Kas asked what I was hoping to see from Jain from my vote earlier on. I was mostly wondering why Jain had not yet posted, but was really rather active in PMs. In addition to that, he wanted to get things started really early the previous Night Turn, so I found his relative inactivity to be rather curious.

 

I'm not yet going to remove my vote just though. Part of that is because I still am curious about Jain, but I am also sitting on the fence about Eoladdin. While he could indeed be an Eliminator trying to phish for information, or trying to just get information spread out more (not necessarily to him), I really don't think that the Eliminators would hang one of their own out to dry so early like this. This gambit could be done later in the game, and if they really wanted to get rid of their own Tineye, they'd do it later in the game when they don't need the voting power quite so badly. As such, I am inclined to put Eoladdin in the clear, hesitantly. I'm not going to trust him, and I will keep an eye on him, but I won't be voting for him yet.

 

So who should we look at instead? I think it should be the people who voted for Eolhondras, or at least started it off: Mailliw, Ostrich and Mek. Mailliw and Ostrich posted effectively simultaneously, so that's less likely to be a bandwagon, but Ostrich didn't remove his poke-vote afterwards. Perhaps an Eliminator attempting to get a lynch somewhat solidified?

 

So, in conclusion, now I am going to remove my vote: Jain, Ostrich.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Wyrmhero