[DISPROVED] Random Speculation: The Plague in the Purelake

[Sitroentje]

The diseases that wiped out the natives were also ones that killed a decent amount of Europeans, like smallpox and tuberculosis. 

 

True, my point was that the disease did a lot more harm in the new area than in the old, smallpox killed numerous europeans, however, it killed a lot more amerindians (relatively speaking of course).

 

So while the commen cold might be well known on Scadrial and/or Sell, it was not known on Roshar (or at least in the Purelake), because of that, a lot of people die of it, and it can be called a plague. Whether the worldhoppers knew this would happen is an entirally different question, as is the influence of stormlight on disease.

 

I do believe that stormlight has a positive effect, and less people die of the unknown disease than would on, for example, Scadrial, where there probably isn't such an effect.

[Moogle]

We have an interesting WoB on Scadrial's Investiture actually:

Question
Have you thought any more about metal allergies with your Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson
It definitely wouldn't be pleasant.

Question
Ok, I have this steel allergy, I got it last year, and I work in a steel plant.

Brandon Sanderson
It would not be pleasant, but I would have the instinct that fewer people on Scadrial would have that allergy, because of the Investiture during their creation. But, it could totally happen.
(source)

 

This might support every world where a Shard is Invested giving you some sort of health boost, though Roshar would have a particularly notable health boost perhaps.

[Oudeis]

?? My reading of that quote suggested that it was metal specific. That because the "focus" on that planet is metal, the Investiture in every person will make the incidences of specifically metallic allergies lower. However, your interpretation is a valid one, even if a lower incident of allergies is very different than a higher resistance to illness.

[Sitroentje]

My guess would be that investiture simply gives you more resistance against disease/allergies etc. maybe with the added effect of planet specific infestiture. Because Roshar is high in infestiture, and every week a massive infestiture storm comes by, people probably have more infestiture, kinda like on Nalthis.

[Twenty@20]

Are we absolutely sure that microbes like common cold virus have never existed on Roshar? After all, there is evidence of rotspren on Roshar which means there must be bacteria and fungi on Roshar to cause the rotting in first place. Is it to far-fetched to consider the presence of viruses too on Roshar?

[Darkness]

First: I am truly fascinated by the direction of this thread, mostly because I'm a biology major with a mostly microbiology and genetics background.

Second: Viruses are way different from bacteria and fungi. As different as taste and color. Sure, taste may overlap with colour in somewhat predictable ways (especially with dyed foods), but they are far from the same thing (bad analogy, but they're different). Not too far-fetched to say viruses could have developed, and did on at least one world since the worldhoppers got one from somewhere, but they likely wouldn't have developed on two different planets in the same way unless there was a common ancestor of some kind (from Yolen, maybe), so there wouldn't be effective immunities in the Rosharan population (again, unless there was a common ancestor).

Third: Allergies are a category unto themselves. Allergies don't come because some dangerous particle gets through your immune system (like viruses and bacterial infections), they come because at some level, your own body sees a generally unharmful particle as a target, and whips up an exaggerated immune response. So I could definitely see metal allergies being less common on Roshar by simple natural selection, and a heightened natural affinity of their bodies to metals (via investiture). People who reacted poorly to metal either died out, or got ostracized (reduced progeny), or the Lord Ruler fixed them way back when. However, I can't see how that resistance to allergies would bestow a secondary resistance to harmful, foreign particles (e.g. viruses and bacteria). Again, apples and oranges here.

 

I'm personally of the opinion that Rosharans just didn't even remotely have any resistance to the cold, so it hit them hard, and was highly contagious. Either Demux or Galladon (or the third guy) could have carried it. Galladon probably wouldn't even have known since Elantrians don't get sick.

 

All that in mind, I'm completely willing to suspend all my thinking if SA3 or WoB says the Purelakers were just allergic to the cold or something haha, this is still fantasy

[natc]

My guess would be that investiture simply gives you more resistance against disease/allergies etc. maybe with the added effect of planet specific infestiture. Because Roshar is high in infestiture, and every week a massive infestiture storm comes by, people probably have more infestiture, kinda like on Nalthis.

Isn't there a planet in Greater Roshar where people get powers from diseases? Would be weird if investiture resists it.

[Calderis]

Isn't there a planet in Greater Roshar where people get powers from diseases? Would be weird if investiture resists it.

That is a low investiture world. I would have to assume lower investiture = lower resistance. Add in that the illness itself must carry some level of investiture to grant powers and I'm sure it counters any resistance.

[ostrichofevil]

But what's the point of writing it in?  There still has to be a reason Brandon added it.

[Oudeis]

Are we absolutely sure that microbes like common cold virus have never existed on Roshar? After all, there is evidence of rotspren on Roshar which means there must be bacteria and fungi on Roshar to cause the rotting in first place. Is it to far-fetched to consider the presence of viruses too on Roshar?

 

I'm confused... Most of us are saying that while of course there are viruses (viri?) on Roshar, the specific virus that on one planet is called "the common cold" never evolved on Roshar, hence the lack of indigenous immunity.

 

Are you asking if we're saying that microbes simply don't exist on Roshar? I speak for myself but I don't believe anyone is suggesting that.

[rjl]

I hope this isn't too big a plot point, whilst I like the interconnected-ness, I like each world to stand in it's own for those who haven't read everything + interviews/forums, if worldhoppers bringing the cold are a massive part of the story it will break that a bit.

[natc]

A certain sword that shouldn't be here already appears to have become a major story element.

[Darkness]

Yes, but that certain sword was meant to be in the story from the beginning, and Warbreaker's main purpose was to introduce it. That said, there may be some awkward hand-wavery ensuing from the 'magical other sword' for those who haven't read Warbreaker. I wonder if Szeth will connect up with a certain weaponsmaster that could be fun.

[Patrick Star]

A certain sword that shouldn't be here already appears to have become a major story element.

 

I can imagine Nightblood in some random city.

 

"Hey, those are people!  I'm gonna say high to the people!  Oh wait, they're evil.  They're gonna stab me in the back.  So I'll stab them in the butt."

[Kingsdaughter613]

Something to keep in mind here: Wayne comments that his cold vanishes when he is tapping gold, but reappears when he stops. So stormlight may not heal a virus either. This may be because a virus goes insert when healing and is no longer recognized as a threat. It also may be due to the original virus mutating.

My personal theory was that viruses do not exist on Roshar. There is clearly bacteria (things decay) but no indications of a virus. And if you have no immunity to a virus, even the common cold can prove deadly. The common cold is actually one of the most contagious and rapidly changing viruses there is. We don't see it as dangerous because our bodies know how to handle a virus. In a population without that the side effects would likely be more severe, people would not know how to treat it, and even when they get over one it is only to catch another. The disease itself may not kill, but ignorance will. And that isn't taking into account what happens when people start to panic.

As noted, people on Roshar tend not to get sick. People who rarely get ill tend to be worse off when they DO get sick because their bodies are unused to it and don't know how to react. So the Rosharans may actually suffer more than other people. 

And that's all before considering that the virus could mutate to become something much worse than a cold.

[Darkness]

sorry, but I think you may mean influenza (the flu), instead of the common cold. Influenza is far worse than a cold. When people say they have the flu, dont believe them unless they are in bed, and have been or plan to be for around 7 days minimum. Any faster recovery means it isn't the flu. Colds are much more cute and cuddly.

while I'm on the topic, a 'fever' is not a disease or illness, it's a symptom of infection meaning your body elevated it's temperature as a defense to fight off infection.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Darkness
fever... may as well get it out there too :P

[Humpty]

     Yeah I have always believed it was the worldhoppers that caused it, considering BS took the time and energy to put a  modern day purelake scene into one of the interludes with worldhoppers in it.

      Anyone else have a fantasy that Harmony will come over and snatch all the meddling worldhoppers up and imprison them somewhere? Well all except Hoid that is.

[Rasarr]

7 minutes ago, Humpty said:

Anyone else have a fantasy that Harmony will come over and snatch all the meddling worldhoppers up and imprison them somewhere? Well all except Hoid that is.

(Secret History spoiler)

If Kelsier had any chance to share his post-mortem experiences with Sazed, then Hoid might be on the top of Harmony's "to be arrested" list.

[Humpty]

very true.. however I doubt BS would do that to one of his favorite characters.

[happyman]

9 hours ago, Humpty said:

     Yeah I have always believed it was the worldhoppers that caused it, considering BS took the time and energy to put a  modern day purelake scene into one of the interludes with worldhoppers in it.

      Anyone else have a fantasy that Harmony will come over and snatch all the meddling worldhoppers up and imprison them somewhere? Well all except Hoid that is.

It's an interesting thought, but (Arcanum Unbounded and Secret History spoilers)

there are good reasons to think that Harmony isn't going anywhere.  It turns out that unlike most other worlds in the Cosmere, Ruin and Preservation really and truly created Scadrial from scratch.  The whole planet.  That's a ridiculous amount of power invested in one place.  Harmony is probably well and truly bound.

We know this from Kelsier's visions in the spiritual realm in Secret History (he sees that preservation is truly everything, at least everything around him). Khriss' comments in the introduction to Scadrial in Arcanum Unbounded reflect the same conclusion, although she lists no specific evidence there.

[Corax]

Ack, realized after the fact that this was a necro. Sorry!

 

Edited December 5, 2016 by Corax
Necro

[blad3mast3r]

Good theory

[WeiryWriter]

So since this thread has recently been seeing a surprising amount of activity, I've gone through and made it clear that it was disproved.