Long Game 113: The Thaylen City Council

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

17 minutes ago, Asriel said:

You made decent points, and I was already unsure. Currently, I think either you and Myst are both elims or are both villagers - you've backed each other up too much.
Mint - idk. Too much RP to give me a clear read, so I just went with someone nobody had voted for yet. That said, my argument for voting out Myst wasn't very convincing either, so that's suspicious.

Edit: Frankly, at this point there's not enough evidence to really have a concrete idea about anyone, and there's a good portion of newbies (including myself) who could be throwing off reads. 
So I don't really want to be responsible for voting someone out.

Hmm

I'd say trust yourself a little more. Be more confident in your gut. We've all been responsible for voting the wrong people out. I'd rather ride or die an elim than waver and do nothing because I'm indecisive

3 minutes ago, Mystfall said:

Okay but like. 4 Elims with a Mavset is worse than just 5 Elims. After conversion there’s 5, and before conversion it’s tied to a specific player who if dies takes out 2 Elims instead of 1. 

I'm not sure what you're saying but I really doubt we have five starting elims +Conversion

[Mystfall He/Him]

1 minute ago, Hoid Slayer said:

Hmm

I'd say trust yourself a little more. Be more confident in your gut. We've all been responsible for voting the wrong people out. I'd rather ride or die an elim than waver and do nothing because I'm indecisive

I'm not sure what you're saying but I really doubt we have five starting elims +Conversion

I think 5 Elims no conversion 

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

1 minute ago, Jo and the Bush said:

Maybe its trolling/biased to admit this, but one of the Distros I spent a long time trying to balance was 3 Elims. A Mavset-im/Highguard, a Royal/Highguard, and a Banker/Highguard. I decided it was too swingy, no matter what I gave or denied the village.

 

When I Co-GMed with Twin, I considered doing one starting elim plus two conversions but he vetoed 

1 minute ago, Mystfall said:

I think 5 Elims no conversion 

There is 100% a mavset-im pal

*.*.*.*

Alright I like the direction this is going in

We've got a main train with three votes (Mint) to stimulate discussion, a backup train of Myst (sorry pal I won't join it but it's there), and lots of time for more options to pop up

[Mystfall He/Him]

3 minutes ago, Hoid Slayer said:

When I Co-GMed with Twin, I considered doing one starting elim plus two conversions but he vetoed 

And yet both of us still died C1

[Illwei]

7 minutes ago, Jo and the Bush said:

Maybe its trolling/biased to admit this, but one of the Distros I spent a long time trying to balance was 3 Elims. A Mavset-im/Highguard, a Royal/Highguard, and a Banker/Highguard. I decided it was too swingy, no matter what I gave or denied the village.

Run it back (pretend i posted this post game) 

34 minutes ago, Hoid Slayer said:

Okay yeah I see that, don't know if it would merit a village read in my book though seems like low hanging fruit

What exactly does Low Hanging Fruit mean to you in this context? 

 

After reading the Harry Potter MR my read on Ink has not changed. Activity promised from them aside, they're still a new Elim to a degree if they were to rand it. My points earlier haven't changed based on the fact that their posting was immediately engaged. 

My one hesitation is their comment about not voting yet, as that's kinda- eh. But They're still on my not gonna kill list for today. 

[WhimsyIsTheBestShard]

Why am I not in the vote counts? I voted Myst

[Mystfall He/Him]

7 minutes ago, Hoid Slayer said:

There is 100% a mavset-im pal

*.*.*.*

Alright I like the direction this is going in

We've got a main train with three votes (Mint) to stimulate discussion, a backup train of Myst (sorry pal I won't join it but it's there), and lots of time for more options to pop up

Having 1 mavset Elim is worse than just 2 Elims but alright

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

Saints, all fighting destiny, all warring fate, their belief in heroes.

Heroes in belief, their fate warring all, destiny, fighting all.

Sinners.

...

Tshanin's first true council meeting was not going the way he'd expected it to. To begin with, Councilor #6 - none of the others seemed to use her name - had taken the sixth chair right out of Tshanin's hands while Dvalk had gone to the restroom. Unsure what to do next, Tshanin had simply quickly shifted to the next seat over before the announcements had begun. Thankfully, no others seemed to pay him any mind.

It seemed disrespect was common in this forum.

When Teej pushed the agenda off his table, Tshanin had blinked rapidly in confusion. And then, when he began to speak of Odium's offer, his confusion had rapidly turned to concern. What? He hadn't checked his desk this morning. Should he have? Despite the horror of the event, Tshanin's stomach roiled with the thought that he'd done something wrong.

Even in this, he stood out.

And in his thoughts, he missed as all the others got up and began to discuss. They formed clumps quickly, and Tshanin stood awkwardly for a bit, unsure what to do. Eventually, he turned to the councilor next to him.

"Umm, excuse me..." ...Councilor number 6? No, that didn't sound right. "Ma'am." He took a second to recompose himself. "Would you happen to have a copy of the offer Councilor Teej referenced? I don't believe I received one, and I would like to read it over."

@Illwei

5 minutes ago, WhimsyIsTheBestShard said:

Why am I not in the vote counts? I voted Myst

Snappers

5 minutes ago, Mystfall said:

Having 1 mavset Elim is worse than just 2 Elims but alright

Who said the distro is optimal

Having five elims is also worse than having six, but we aren't considering that

6 minutes ago, Illwei said:

What exactly does Low Hanging Fruit mean to you in this context? 

The low hanging fruit in question is me and Myst having the ability to somewhat impact our roles. As far as suspicions go, it's as neutral as one can get: nothing to do with our in game behavior, no vibes to argue. Of all the pokes an elim could make at this point in the game that is arguably the easiest and safest, except for maybe TUC.

 

[The Unknown Character he/him]

29 minutes ago, TwinStorm said:

thats the same way I've done distros in the past, so I think theres a good chance we can use deduction to make some elim role claims

from the briefest glance at the roles 

assuming 4 elims

1 Mavset-Im (pretty much given atp)

1 Royal Family (im assuming this would have to balance out with a v/royal family)

1 Banker?? (idk abt this one, seems like it would pair well with the Mavset-Im)

and prolly a vanilla

plus a highguard thrown up there somewhere, I dont think it makes sense for an entirely village doc and we're being way too optimistic to assume theres not

these are just my first random jumbled thoughts lol idk anything honestly

I'd guess swap the Banker for a vanilla highguard, but that's a solid guess otherwise 

22 minutes ago, Jo and the Bush said:

Maybe its trolling/biased to admit this, but one of the Distros I spent a long time trying to balance was 3 Elims. A Mavset-im/Highguard, a Royal/Highguard, and a Banker/Highguard. I decided it was too swingy, no matter what I gave or denied the village.

 

Nice of you to cover for the Elims by pretending you didn't pick that distro

9 minutes ago, Mystfall said:

Having 1 mavset Elim is worse than just 2 Elims but alright

General rule of thumb is 20-25% of the player count. For 20 players, that's exactly 4-5, which conveniently is essentially exactly what 4 with a Mavset-elim (I'm way too proud of that pun) adds up to

Edit: I know this is kinda asking a lot, but those of you who are roleplay only, could you somehow demarcate Roleplay only posts from posts in character? This is purely a personal request so feel free not to, but I very well might not notice in character analysis otherwise 

Edited Thursday at 06:40 PM by The Unknown Character

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

Quote

@Jo and the Bush? @Cuendillar? Can a Depo announcement be retracted? 

Excellent Question! NO.

also, Y'all PM a lot. if you have a question for me, please ask it in either tmyour GM PM or the thread. 7 times out of 10, if its in one of the player - player pms, i will miss it.

Quote

Can the Banker Self Target?

Yup.

Quote

Wait, if the Royal makes the Banker take a day action  how many votes get canceled?

Depends. If the Banker was already using their action to cancel votes, they will cancel as many votes as they said they would. If they were not taking that action  they will only cancel 1 vote and remain anonymous.

 

[Illwei]

Also, in response to the earlier talk about a convert role being worse than another elim? It's honestly not worse, but it is kinda completely different. It means that every cycle you as a Villager have to re-eval your reads and make sure you still believe in them because your top village read from cycle 1 or 2 or 3 could be an Elim now, if they didn't manage to keep their loyalty high. 

Which is, as I said before, important to keep your loyalty high.

EDIT: 

@Hoid Slayer

If you're trying to throw an RP to me then I'm sorry but I'm not quite capable of RPing with other people. Not really comfortable with trying to understand the parameters or what other people are trying to throw my way. 

--In reference to the LHF, that makes sense. It read to me as you thinking the village read was LHF, which didn't make much sense. 

I do think that it's an easy thing to vote someone for, but my focus is more on the attitude rather than the content. I'm never going to unvote someone or find them because they have a sound argument for why they are placing a vote or why someone else is an Elim, but rather /how/ they answer. 

To me Asriel answered eh pretty well. Not saying the reasoning is valid, since I don't believe in it (If you read my posts)

If that makes sense. 

Edited Thursday at 07:00 PM by Illwei

[Mystfall He/Him]

1 hour ago, Hoid Slayer said:

I would assume he chose before, just because I had to choose before, and Myst probably did as well, but I can't be sure about that

That's concerning

I agree with all this

Kinda crazy how Illwei said she'd go light this game and proceeded to produce the longest post so far

I'm gonna say right now that I assure you Jo did not let me pick mavset-im. He gave me three options for roles, and they were all alignment-ambiguous.

You can not believe me if you want, but recall I wasn't sure of my alignment at the start of this cycle despite getting my boon 24 hours ago

Mint can you clarify what you're saying about the Parliamentarian here cause I'm confused

Woah woah woah there

I like that guy

Yeah I like this guy

Chat I think that actually makes Myst look better if anything

Okay maybe not but

I think anyone in his place would rig the odds for mavset-im, and what is a villager without honesty

Hoid legitimately considered turning down the boon for the possiblity of randing mavset-im, then remembered his standing with the gods of Chance and Fate and decided to go with the safe option

Why

Why

Me too pal

Lowkey that would be crazy to get away with

Yeah @Mat you ready to come back and explain that

I will confirm I am not vanilla

Well this is funny I was just gonna do that. Curious about your reasoning though

Oh yeah that makes sense

I agree with all this, and admit I have not been studious with the ruleset, but I don't think we should fall into the trap of disregarding loyalty entirely either

Cause the elims certainly won't, and if we just let them grind us down, they will succeed

...

Yayyy I'm finally caught up I'mma post some notes I've been taking here

...

Random notes:

People who have practically just RPed (please yap more)

KeyFox

KSauce

Wahr (to an extent, has also made some game related comments)

Whimsy

Grub

Asriel? Idk just saw an RP post, maybe not

Reads

Illwei - light village. I like the move on Asriel

TUC - light village. Don't know if he'd be playing this boldly as an elim, very stubborn

Wahr - used Mint's post to get into Deposition discussion, doubled down on it. 

Mint - light elim. Vibes. To be more specific, here seems to get a dose of validation from Wahr that elims crave. I also can't consistently understand her so that might be influencing me. Also didn't like that vote on Myst, especially when Myst already had (two?) votes

Myst - neutral. Could lean either way. Don't wanna kill him though, I hope he's elim and living his best life without me. I don't know what to think about him telling people to scan him, inclined to believe he at least ain't mavset-im though cause that's a risky gambit there could 100% be people here who would actually scan him for that

Ink and Embers - light light light elim for this post. Shoot I just realized those links don't work like I thought they did. Well scroll down deal with it I don't want bulky quotes. Just seems like they went for the two most obvious, easy to blame targets.

Oh yeah I'd forgotten about that

@Araris Valerian my vote isn't on you anymore but wanna weigh in on what's going on?

Oh and Archer I must say I don't think I've seen much of you either besides VCs

Aren't all actions always taken at night?

Something I wanted to say earlier but I had to do all my boon stuff before I got my role/alignment. So I also assume Twin had to as well.

I am also not vanilla btw

[TwinStorm He/Him]

7 minutes ago, Mystfall said:

Something I wanted to say earlier but I had to do all my boon stuff before I got my role/alignment. So I also assume Twin had to as well.

I am also not vanilla btw

actually no, all I did was determine my loyalty in my GMPM post PMs being sent out

[WhimsyIsTheBestShard]

@TwinStorm What is your loyalty? I see no reason to hide it, or minimal reason

[Illwei]

I wouldn't publicly announce loyalty. Direction will be shown during the deposition tonight. 

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

36 minutes ago, The Unknown Character said:

Mavset-elim (I'm way too proud of that pun)

Considering how long it took me to realize it - yes, you are

37 minutes ago, The Unknown Character said:

Edit: I know this is kinda asking a lot, but those of you who are roleplay only, could you somehow demarcate Roleplay only posts from posts in character? This is purely a personal request so feel free not to, but I very well might not notice in character analysis otherwise 

Second this

I think italics is standard, I prefer bolding cause it stands out more, and I've also seen people use certain colors for RP

37 minutes ago, Illwei said:

--In reference to the LHF, that makes sense. It read to me as you thinking the village read was LHF, which didn't make much sense. 

Ahh yeah that makes sense

2 minutes ago, WhimsyIsTheBestShard said:

@TwinStorm What is your loyalty? I see no reason to hide it, or minimal reason

I actually don't know what to think of this

I guess the reason we don't all massclaim loyalty is to not give things away to the elims, and also to not implicate our roles (like - someone uses an action that requires negative loyalty, we know they're in the pool with negative loyalty)

But if he's village, Twin is bound to have given himself lots of loyalty and the elims already know that

Actually, Twin, I'd say don't reveal it

Just now, Illwei said:

I wouldn't publicly announce loyalty. Direction will be shown during the deposition tonight. 

I'm still not in favor of that

[WhimsyIsTheBestShard]

Just now, Illwei said:

I wouldn't publicly announce loyalty. Direction will be shown during the deposition tonight. 

Yeah okay, I don't have much experience 

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

40 minutes ago, Illwei said:

@Hoid Slayer

If you're trying to throw an RP to me then I'm sorry but I'm not quite capable of RPing with other people. Not really comfortable with trying to understand the parameters or what other people are trying to throw my way. 

That's alright

Tshanin stood and smiled awkwardly as the councilor gave him a weird look, and then walked away without a word. Wonderful. Great start to the day.

He looked around a bit, before finally settling on a councilor who had been getting a lot of attention. He strolled over to Fickle, set on making this interaction at least a little bit better.

[Illwei]

I also don't particularly want the deposition, but anyone can trigger it. If TUC is going to then we will find out. 

Personally I don't want people knowing my loyalty. I dont. I really don't wanna end up getting converted please please don't do it i am begging

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

2 minutes ago, Illwei said:

I also don't particularly want the deposition, but anyone can trigger it. If TUC is going to then we will find out. 

Personally I don't want people knowing my loyalty. I dont. I really don't wanna end up getting converted please please don't do it i am begging

Unlike poor Illwei, I do want to be converted

Elims, you heard it here

 

[Mint11 she/her]

okay I'm going to have to go OOC to clarify a few things

my main issue with voting to depose is that forcing people to take certain actions is less fun, and I find it off-putting. I wouldn't go as far to say that it stops the village from doing anything productive. I need to actually review all the roles again to see the different abilities for positive and negative loyalty, but just remembering my instincts on the first read through, I disagree that lowering loyalty is inherently anti-village. it depends on the context of the game in the moment

based on TUC's own logic, we are not at risk of the elims winning if a vote is called now, so it honestly seems to me that neutral loyalty would benefit players with some roles right now because it gives them flexibility and an easy way to switch

but I wouldn't want to tell players how to use their abilities. I might make suggestions or find things suspicious depending on what else is going on. but I dislike forcing people's hand

tbf I don't think this opinion matters too much bc it sounds like its going to happen tonight regardless

now that I'm thinking on it, I don't see how this gives us much information either. knowimg everyone's loyalty at this point in the game doesn't tell us anything about the actions people took. we don't know where anyone started, and the loyalty could increase or decrease for so many reasons on C1

if a villager needs a loyalty boost, we're way better off with them saying so in thread than we are with giving elims a view of the whole playing field

2 hours ago, Mystfall said:

I think Mint

I am suspicious of the fact that I have 4 votes already, and I don’t like this, especially considering what Wahr said immediately afterwards. If the reasoning is that I would go for Mavset, then Hoid falls under the same category, and you’ve said nothing about him. If it’s that you don’t like that I suggested the absence of a conversion, the conversion is role-dependent, if the person with the role dies before they convert anyone then there isn’t a conversion. Balancing that IMO is rather delicate considering one exe would essentially take out 2 of the Elims in one go(more if you consider how 1 conversion = 2 NKs)

its not that I suspect you of having the conversion role. its a combination of floating the idea that a conversion role doesn't exist and being more likely to have honed in on it earlier. mostly a feeling thats a bit off

IMO its too early to worry about trains or to analyze trains. the day turn is 48 hours

 

have not read through the last page in detail, will do that when I have time later

3 minutes ago, Hoid Slayer said:

Elims, you heard it here

 

this is a great way of convincing the elims not to convert you

[Asriel He/Him]

Hoid does bring up a good point, which is that information we put out publicly will give the Elims at least as much of an advantage as it gives us.
I think we should note this applies to the deposition vote: IE if we’re worried about elims learning loyalty (and thus who to target), then a deposition vote should be a no. 
I’ve come to the conclusion that a a motion to despose is too risky. The cons outweigh the pros. In fact I think we should just say no one from the village should move for a deposition and anyone who does would most likely be an Elim in that case and should be executed (or attacked by the Highguards).
If we agree to this, it essentially makes the easier way for the Elims to win much more risky to them. That’s more important to me right now than knowing everyone’s loyalty.

[Mint11 she/her]

edit: last page meaning page 5... yall posted too fast

edit2: my point has been emphasized, this was supposed to merge with my last post

Edited Thursday at 07:37 PM by Mint11

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

1 minute ago, Mint11 said:

edit: last page meaning page 5... yall posted too fast

edit2: my point has been emphasized, this was supposed to merge with my last post

Fr

1 minute ago, Asriel said:

Hoid does bring up a good point, which is that information we put out publicly will give the Elims at least as much of an advantage as it gives us.
I think we should note this applies to the deposition vote: IE if we’re worried about elims learning loyalty (and thus who to target), then a deposition vote should be a no. 
I’ve come to the conclusion that a a motion to despose is too risky. The cons outweigh the pros. In fact I think we should just say no one from the village should move for a deposition and anyone who does would most likely be an Elim in that case and should be executed (or attacked by the Highguards).
If we agree to this, it essentially makes the easier way for the Elims to win much more risky to them. That’s more important to me right now than knowing everyone’s loyalty.

I don’t wanna threaten people but I highly suggest TUC not pursue this course of action

3 minutes ago, Mint11 said:

if a villager needs a loyalty boost, we're way better off with them saying so in thread than we are with giving elims a view of the whole playing field

Or uhh just not that also gives the info to the elims

4 minutes ago, Mint11 said:

IMO its too early to worry about trains or to analyze trains. the day turn is 48 hours

I disagree

Well, worry maybe

But I think the more time we spend talking this stuff over the better, the joy of C1s is how much the situation can change and I feel like the last few games I played had fairly boring C1s

[Asriel He/Him]

I was referring to this post, btw

21 minutes ago, Hoid Slayer said:

I guess the reason we don't all massclaim loyalty is to not give things away to the elims, and also to not implicate our roles (like - someone uses an action that requires negative loyalty, we know they're in the pool with negative loyalty)